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Trump just won

Jason Harvestdancer said:
Yes, there are people arguing against the premise "Trump's victory is the fault of Hillary Clinton, the Democratic Party, and the lousy campaign they ran." I know this because every time I bring it up, people accuse me of being a Trump supporter and some actually do insist that Hillary was a great candidate who ran a great campaign. Then all the blame for her loss is assigned to racism because there's no other reason why such a great candidate with a great campaign would ever lose.

That is why the liberal blog author I quoted said "stop crying wolf" and I've been saying "please stop crying fucking wolf all the fucking time". You can join those who say Hillary ran such an awesome campaign, in which case the only explanation is racism. Or you can grow the fuck up and realize that Hillary was deeply flawed and that it is her fault we have Trump.

Defending the parroting of "Racism, Racism, Squawk, Polly want a cracker, Racism" doesn't help. It really doesn't.

When I say "stop crying wolf" and you reply "you're a Trump supporter", that helps even less.

Now we have DrZ saying that Trump didn't repudiate vehemently enough and that is the secret proof, and simultaneously saying he isn't saying anything about Trump being racist. And we have Elixir saying that my insistence that we should stop crying wolf makes me a Trump supporter.

I'm now confronted with the most absurd of all arguments. "He's a bad guy, so even if he isn't racist its okay to call him racist. If you disagree with me calling him racist then that means you are a Trumps supporter." No it isn't and no it doesn't. That argument is nothing more than a toddler-level temper tantrum. Grow the fuck up.
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There are a few that dearly wanted Clinton to win that do have a clue though.

 
DrZoidberg said:
LordKiran said:
I'd argue that if the working definition of 'good' is 'someone who treats your fellow man humanely and in accordance with the holy bible' (Which was the moral standard of the time) then no, by the standards of the time, the captains of industry who exploited their workers and put their consumers in danger were not 'good'.
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Well... I think "good" is a bullshit concept as so far as it describes personal traits. People may do good or evil things. But I don't think anybody is motivated by being good or evil. I think life was hard back then. Anything better than starving in the streets was considered "doing good". I recently read an interesting story about the London matchstick workers strike of 1888. The company was struggling with competition and reverted to using cheap white phosphorus instead of red phosphorus. This was dangerous to the health, but could be mitigated by taking some precautions. The problem was when the workers did away with the precautions to speed up the process and developed phossy jaw (a horrendous disease) and then hid it, so they wouldn't get fired, which only made everything worse until they dropped dead. They also used child labour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_matchgirls_strike_of_1888

Where's the evil in this? The factory owner couldn't compete with the much cheaper Swedish matches. Which were cheaper because Sweden in 1988 was among the poorest countries on the planet then. We were poor compared to countries like India.

It's just the market. These capitalists just did what they had to do to survive. Which they did. Now the brand is owned by Swedish Match. Oh, the irony.

The only solution was to ban white phosphorous. Which they did in 1908. Only then could the company stop using it without risking bankruptcy. I see it as neither good nor evil. It just is.
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Being good or evil is a result of your character, it's not the sum of your character itself. People aren't evil because they do evil things. They're evil because they're selfish and they let that character flaw override their otherwise good/social nature and commit terrible acts upon others.

It's important to remember that 'good' and 'evil' (Even if you believe them to be arbitrary and defined entirely by perspective) aren't defined by intent, they're defined by actions and the consequences there of.

Evil people can be just ignorant or ill-considerate of others. They don't have to have their intent driven by pure malice for others. <Insert nazi germany refference here>

You can argue that good and evil don't have to be determined by actions alone, but again I argue from a position that the bible was the moral standard of the time these industrial elites lived in. By that standard, they are guilty for their actions alone which have lead to the deaths, destitution and misery of their fellow man. Wether the evil they committed was intentional or not, doesn't really matter.
 
AthenaAwakened said:
credoconsolans said:
Except she did. She won the popular vote. The electoral college does not reflect the inspiration of getting people to the polls.
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But not in key states. Please read the top two sentences.

AND

The time to complain about the Electoral College is NOT after it doesn't work for you. Start now campaigning and lobbying to get rid of it for the 2020 election.
See how much support you really get from either party's establishment.
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I've been complaining about the EC since Gore's defeat in 2000.
 
Harry_Bosch said:
AthenaAwakened said:
But not in key states. Please read the top two sentences.

AND

The time to complain about the Electoral College is NOT after it doesn't work for you. Start now campaigning and lobbying to get rid of it for the 2020 election.
See how much support you really get from either party's establishment.
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I've been complaining about the EC since Gore's defeat in 2000.
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Total is total. She won the total of the popular votes.
 
Increase the number of representatives, thereby increasing the number of electors, until the number of voters per elector is flattened out. The magic of this solution is that you won't need to amend the constitution.
 
Harry_Bosch said:
AthenaAwakened said:
But not in key states. Please read the top two sentences.

AND

The time to complain about the Electoral College is NOT after it doesn't work for you. Start now campaigning and lobbying to get rid of it for the 2020 election.
See how much support you really get from either party's establishment.
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I've been complaining about the EC since Gore's defeat in 2000.
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It is who have you been complaining to and what actions you take that matter, not the fact that you have bitched about it to people who have no power to change it.

Have you written your Senator and Representative demanding that they introduce a bill to amend the Constitution? Have you started a petition drive yourself to hold a Constitutional convention?
 
skepticalbip said:
Harry_Bosch said:
I've been complaining about the EC since Gore's defeat in 2000.
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It is who have you been complaining to and what actions you take that matter, not the fact that you have bitched about it to people who have no power to change it.

Have you written your Senator and Representative demanding that they introduce a bill to amend the Constitution? Have you started a petition drive yourself to hold a Constitutional convention?
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Not that it's the case with Harry but I always found it interesting that the people who complain that the system doesn't work are the people who never even think to try in the first place.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Increase the number of representatives, thereby increasing the number of electors, until the number of voters per elector is flattened out. The magic of this solution is that you won't need to amend the constitution.
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Take it to the limit - make every voter an elector. That should fix it.
 
Elixir said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Increase the number of representatives, thereby increasing the number of electors, until the number of voters per elector is flattened out. The magic of this solution is that you won't need to amend the constitution.
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Take it to the limit - make every voter an elector. That should fix it.
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That's not the limit. Replace the entire government with a committee of the whole of the population. That's the limit.
 
Harry_Bosch said:
AthenaAwakened said:
But not in key states. Please read the top two sentences.

AND

The time to complain about the Electoral College is NOT after it doesn't work for you. Start now campaigning and lobbying to get rid of it for the 2020 election.
See how much support you really get from either party's establishment.
Click to expand...

I've been complaining about the EC since Gore's defeat in 2000.
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i did not say start complaining
 
credoconsolans said:
LordKiran said:
Well when that starts to matter, you'll be the first to know.
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It does matter. Trump supporters cannotwill claim that "the people" wanted Trump when they obviously did not.
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FIFY, and they'll pull what the W Admin did and accuse any disagreement as anti-patriotic. It could be worse than W. Likely worse. At least Fleischer said people should watch what they say, and it wasn't W at a podium saying Maher should be fired (a very weak 'at least').

And before anyone loses their shit over the Fleischer quote:

Ari Fleischer (with relation to Bill Maher) said:
I'm aware of the press reports about what he said. I have not seen the actual transcript of the show itself. But assuming the press reports are right, it's a terrible thing to say. And it's unfortunate. And that's why there was an earlier question about, "Has the president said anything to people in his own party?" There are reminders to all Americans that they need to watch what they say, watch what they do, and this is not a time for remarks like that; there never is.
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link
 
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