Trump: pull the US out of NATO?

[barbos]

Yes, since Putin is bad the whole country should suffer.

Correct. Since Putin is the leader of the country and uses it as his piggy bank, the only way to go after him is to go after the country as a whole. It is Russian citizens who are occupying Crimea at the moment and it is Russian citizens who are engaging in espionage activities against the rest of the world. So long as Russian citizens are his tools, there isn't a way to go after him without involving Russian citizens.

First of all, nobody is occupying Crimea, they had referendum and choose to leave Ukraine and go back to Russia (the referendum which they robbed of in 93-94 by Kiev). And second of all, NATO has occupied parts of Serbia for what? 20 years?

It's the same concept as people who don't want to travel to or do business with the US while Trump is President, just on a much larger scale. Most Americans don't support Trump, but the only way that others can take action against him is to target the country he's in charge of itself, since they have no way of taking actions which impact him directly.

That's a stupid concept. First you created Putin, then you pissed him off, then you continued pissing him off and now ordinary russians have to pay for it.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

First of all, nobody is occupying Crimea, they had referendum and choose to leave Ukraine and go back to Russia.

HA!

Thank you so much. That was the funniest thing I've heard all day and I appreciate the laughs.

I won't respond to you any further because your positions are just too stupid to engage with, but know that you've made someone's day brighter.

 

[Elixir]

First of all, nobody is occupying Crimea, they had referendum and choose to leave Ukraine and go back to Russia.

HA!

Thank you so much. That was the funniest thing I've heard all day and I appreciate the laughs.

I won't respond to you any further because your positions are just too stupid to engage with, but know that you've made someone's day brighter.

It's not his fault, Tom. He is fed a steady diet of Pootey Poo, and has learned to like it.

 

[laughing dog]

The purpose of NATO was to guard against a Soviet invasion of Europe.

It should have been disbanded decades ago.

Yep.

Yes, because Ukraine is not part of Europe.

 

[barbos]

First of all, nobody is occupying Crimea, they had referendum and choose to leave Ukraine and go back to Russia.

HA!

Thank you so much. That was the funniest thing I've heard all day and I appreciate the laughs.

I won't respond to you any further because your positions are just too stupid to engage with, but know that you've made someone's day brighter.

Your position is both stupid and willingly ignorant.

 

[barbos]

First of all, nobody is occupying Crimea, they had referendum and choose to leave Ukraine and go back to Russia.

HA!

Thank you so much. That was the funniest thing I've heard all day and I appreciate the laughs.

I won't respond to you any further because your positions are just too stupid to engage with, but know that you've made someone's day brighter.

It's not his fault, Tom. He is fed a steady diet of Pootey Poo, and has learned to like it.

Sorry, it's not me, it's you.

 

[untermensche]

The purpose of NATO was to guard against a Soviet invasion of Europe.

It should have been disbanded decades ago.

Yep.

Yes, because Ukraine is not part of Europe.

You know that the Russian/Ukraine relationship is singular.

It is not equivalent to any relationship in Western Europe.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Yes, because Ukraine is not part of Europe.

You know that the Russian/Ukraine relationship is singular.

It is not equivalent to any relationship in Western Europe.

Yes, because the threat of NATO stops Russia from trying to occupy parts of other European countries.

 

[untermensche]

Yes, because Ukraine is not part of Europe.

You know that the Russian/Ukraine relationship is singular.

It is not equivalent to any relationship in Western Europe.

Yes, because the threat of NATO stops Russia from trying to occupy parts of other European countries.

What nation has ever been protected by NATO from actual not imaginary Russian aggression?

 

[laughing dog]

Yes, because Ukraine is not part of Europe.

You know that the Russian/Ukraine relationship is singular.

It is not equivalent to any relationship in Western Europe.

That is as relevant as apples are a fruit.

 

[Elixir]

Yes, because Ukraine is not part of Europe.

You know that the Russian/Ukraine relationship is singular.

It is not equivalent to any relationship in Western Europe.

Yes, because the threat of NATO stops Russia from trying to occupy parts of other European countries.

"The Threat of NATO" is only a threat to Pootey's ambitions of invading countries to the west of proper Russian territory.
Pootey wants to be emperor of a much larger kingdom than he has now. Tough titty.

 

[barbos]

What nation has ever been protected by NATO from actual not imaginary Russian aggression?

NATO became an economic project for new members. But in order to sell it they had to create an illusion of a threat from Russia.
It took time and lots of effort. Now they actually believe the mantra, not to mention resident potheads from Canada/US who can't find Georgia (the country) on the map.

 

[untermensche]

Yes, because Ukraine is not part of Europe.

You know that the Russian/Ukraine relationship is singular.

It is not equivalent to any relationship in Western Europe.

That is as relevant as apples are a fruit.

I think the fear of Russian expansion into Europe is nothing but paranoia.

So it is a relevant point.

 

[Elixir]

What nation has ever been protected by NATO from actual not imaginary Russian aggression?

NATO became an economic project for new members. But in order to sell it they had to create an illusion of a threat from Russia.
It took time and lots of effort. Now they actually believe the mantra, not to mention resident potheads from Canada/US who can't find Georgia (the country) on the map.

More Pootey poop. If Russia doesn't try any expansionist crap, there IS NO THREAT POSED BY NATO. It is a mutual DEFENSE agreement.
That is why the Pootey/Cheato cabal wants to destroy it.

 

[laughing dog]

What nation has ever been protected by NATO from actual not imaginary Russian aggression?

NATO became an economic project for new members. But in order to sell it they had to create an illusion of a threat from Russia.

Yeah, because there is absolutely no history of Russian invasions into Europe. Really, Poles, Finns, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgrians, Romanians, Hungarians and East Germans are all simply paranoic ignoramuses.

 

[untermensche]

It depends on what you believe.

Some think removing the gun from Russia's head will make it more aggressive.

I think it will lessen fear in Russia and aggression towards Europe.

Especially if there is a plan to bring Russia into the European Union.

 

[barbos]

Yes, because the threat of NATO stops Russia from trying to occupy parts of other European countries.

"The Threat of NATO" is only a threat to Pootey's ambitions of invading countries to the west of proper Russian territory.
Pootey wants to be emperor of a much larger kingdom than he has now. Tough titty.

Here is a little problem for you. Not even harshest critics of Putin in Russia agree with your "brilliant" analysis. In fact, some of the retired US intelligence critters strongly disagree with you. So even if you somehow conduct a coup in Russia you won't be able to find anybody to replace him who would give you Crimea back.

Best strategy for you would be to get another guy in Kremlin and then pretend everything is great now, meanwhile quietly correcting NATO expansion strategy.
Fact is, West has made shitload of mistakes with respect to Russia and unfortunately can't undo them while Putin is in power, you need a new guy but you are not getting one because you made the old guy distrust you.

 

[barbos]

What nation has ever been protected by NATO from actual not imaginary Russian aggression?

NATO became an economic project for new members. But in order to sell it they had to create an illusion of a threat from Russia.

Yeah, because there is absolutely no history of Russian invasions into Europe. Really, Poles, Finns, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgrians, Romanians, Hungarians and East Germans are all simply paranoic ignoramuses.

Oh boy, ignorance is just unbelievable in this one.
I will point out the worst one - Bulgrians. Russia created that country by kicking out Turkey (current NATO member by the way) who was occupying it. Then during USSR Bulgaria tried to join USSR. And russians said "No, we are good" So much for russian expansionism
By the way Bulgaria allied with Hitler during WW2 but they really had no choice.

Russia did occupy Poland (and its parts Lithuania/Latvia) and Finland. But that because Poland and Sweden both were royal pain in the ass.
In fact Poland was a "Soviet Union" of the middle ages and everybody wanted it to be dead including relatively tiny/weak (at the time) Russia.
So everybody around Poland decided that Poland should be smaller and made it smaller, remind you of anything?
If we talk about Soviet Union, then it did not occupy anyone in Europe, not even war with Finland count as occupation.

Now compare to England who went to India and fucked everybody there, then they went to North America and fucked everybody there, then they went to Australia and fucked everybody there.
Then England went to ......... Crimea and fucked Russians, did you know that?
Look at the fucking map and explain why did Democratic Constitutional Monarchy Great Britain would go and occupy Crimea? (I know why) it's a test question for you. So I am sorry if Russians feel a little apprehensive about NATO.


So go and study history a little before you make a fool of yourself again.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I think you just failed at your argument barbos. I think if the US left NATO, it wouldn't be a problem. But even so, your attempt at supporting that action falls flat, because Russia does have a history of conquest, both to the east and to the west.

Now it is true that there is difference between Russia and the Soviet Union, but it is also clear that Russia did dominate the Soviet Union. Therefore when the Soviet Union expanded, it did so under Russian leadership and Russian guidance. Therefore Russia isn't exactly innocent when Hitler and Stalin divided Poland between them. Nor is Russia exactly innocent when the USSR swept up the Balkans and only got stalled because the Finns were a lot tougher than they expected.

Still, for those who scoff at the referendum in the eastern part of Ukraine that led to them rejoining Russia, I wonder what is their opinion of the Kosovo independence referendum.

 

[Tammuz]

Especially if there is a plan to bring Russia into the European Union.

There is no plan for doing that. Russia doesn't want to, and it wouldn't qualify anyways, because it's not a democratic country, and it's too corrupt.

Russia is a threat, but time is working against it as the wolrd is leaving behind gas and oil, and because it faces a demographic challenge of a decreasing population. The young and educated want to leave the country, and China is gradually buying eastern Russia. So it could hopefully be a passing threat.

Maybe there could be a democratic revolt against Putin's regime. I am not hopeful, because Russia has no democratic tradition. But it could happen. Armenia recently overthrew its local Putinist.