Trump: pull the US out of NATO?

[barbos]

I think you just failed at your argument barbos. I think if the US left NATO, it wouldn't be a problem. But even so, your attempt at supporting that action falls flat, because Russia does have a history of conquest, both to the east and to the west.

Dude, I made no argument about US leaving NATO. I merely commented on Russian attitude toward NATO. So try again.

US is not going to leave NATO, so there is not much to discuss here.

 

[barbos]

Especially if there is a plan to bring Russia into the European Union.

There is no plan for doing that. Russia doesn't want to, and it wouldn't qualify anyways, because it's not a democratic country, and it's too corrupt.

Hello, Albania and around it.

Russia is a threat,

Do you know what else was considered a threat? United Germany in 1989. GB and France were very lukewarm happy about unification and french I think even asked Gorbachev not to do it

but time is working against it as the wolrd is leaving behind gas and oil, and because it faces a demographic challenge of a decreasing population.

Norway is no better in that regard.

The young and educated want to leave the country,

True.

and China is gradually buying eastern Russia.

Not true, I mean people were warning about that but is not actually happening. Chinese buy wood but that's about it.

So it could hopefully be a passing threat.

Maybe there could be a democratic revolt against Putin's regime. I am not hopeful, because Russia has no democratic tradition. But it could happen. Armenia recently overthrew its local Putinist.

True, But I would remind you that Japan/South Korea had no democratic traditions either. Difference of course US occupied both countries and put a lot of money into them. In case of Russia there was no help at all, just nothing. In fact, less than nothing, because US completely screwed democracy when it became apparent that Eltsin was going to lose.

 

[Tammuz]

Hello, Albania and around it.

Albania is not a member. Of the Balkan countries, only Croatia is a member.

Do you know what else was considered a threat? United Germany in 1989. GB and France were very lukewarm happy about unification and french I think even asked Gorbachev not to do it

Non-sequitor.

Norway is no better in that regard.

In what regard? And unlike Russia, Norway poses no threat to other countries.

Not true, I mean people were warning about that but it does not actually happens.

You think so? From what I understand, China is very interested in Mongolia and eastern Russia.

True, But I would remind you that Japan/South Korea had no democratic traditions either. Difference of course US occupied both countries and put a lot of money into them. In case of Russia there was no help at all, just nothing. In fact, less than nothing, because US completely screwed democracy when it became apparent that Eltsin was going to lose.

It might be so. But I don't see how it changes anything.

 

[barbos]

Albania is not a member.

But it is trying to get there

Of the Balkan countries, only Croatia is a member.

Again, they all getting there, even Serbia which is properly corrupt for Balkans.

Non-sequitor.

Oh, it's very sequitor. It shows that calling a threat has fairly low bar. In fact you always have to have it.
And in this particular case Russia is obvious choice.

Norway is no better in that regard.

In what regard? And unlike Russia, Norway poses no threat to other countries.

Last time I checked Russia was a country, and it is "other" country with respect to Norway.

Not true, I mean people were warning about that but it does not actually happens.

You think so? From what I understand, China is very interested in Mongolia and eastern Russia.

China may be interested in Mongolia economically, true to an extent. But not in Russia, in fact chinese are apparently afraid of US sanctions.

True, But I would remind you that Japan/South Korea had no democratic traditions either. Difference of course US occupied both countries and put a lot of money into them. In case of Russia there was no help at all, just nothing. In fact, less than nothing, because US completely screwed democracy when it became apparent that Eltsin was going to lose.

It might be so. But I don't see how it changes anything.

I did not say it changes anything, I merely educate you on history/facts.

 

[Elixir]

But it is trying to get there

Again, they all getting there, even Serbia which is properly corrupt for Balkans.

Non-sequitor.

Oh, it's very sequitor. It shows that calling a threat has fairly low bar. In fact you always have to have it.
And in this particular case Russia is obvious choice.

Norway is no better in that regard.

In what regard? And unlike Russia, Norway poses no threat to other countries.

Last time I checked Russia was a country, and it is "other" country with respect to Norway.

Not true, I mean people were warning about that but it does not actually happens.

You think so? From what I understand, China is very interested in Mongolia and eastern Russia.

China may be interested in Mongolia economically, true to an extent. But not in Russia, in fact chinese are apparently afraid of US sanctions.

True, But I would remind you that Japan/South Korea had no democratic traditions either. Difference of course US occupied both countries and put a lot of money into them. In case of Russia there was no help at all, just nothing. In fact, less than nothing, because US completely screwed democracy when it became apparent that Eltsin was going to lose.

It might be so. But I don't see how it changes anything.

If Russia wasn't planning imperial expansion, they wouldn't give a fuck WHO joined NATO.

did not say it changes anything, I merely educate you on history/facts.

The thought of you "educating" ANYONE here is grounds for paroxysms of laughter.

 

[untermensche]

If Russia wasn't planning imperial expansion, they wouldn't give a fuck WHO joined NATO.

What would the US do if nations in this hemisphere joined with Russia in a military alliance?

 

[laughing dog]

Yeah, because there is absolutely no history of Russian invasions into Europe. Really, Poles, Finns, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgrians, Romanians, Hungarians and East Germans are all simply paranoic ignoramuses.

Oh boy, ignorance is just unbelievable in this one. ...

And you proved it with such horseshit half-truth Russian apologia as "Russia did occupy Poland (and its parts Lithuania/Latvia) and Finland. But that because Poland and Sweden both were royal pain in the ass." Your response would be hilarious except it is painfully obvious you believe your moronic delusions.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The purpose of NATO was to guard against a Soviet invasion of Europe.

It should have been disbanded decades ago.

Putting a new label on the bear doesn't change his appetite.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The purpose of NATO was to guard against a Soviet invasion of Europe.

It should have been disbanded decades ago.

No, it still works as a good bulwark against Russian aggression and keeps the Western democracies working together. That's why dismantling it is Putin's #1 foreign policy goal and his viceroy is trying to find a way to make that happen.

What Russian aggression in Europe?

Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine?

 

[JohnG]

What Russian aggression in Europe?

Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine?

Agree - I feel pretty confident the map would look a lot different if it weren't for NATO

 

[untermensche]

The purpose of NATO was to guard against a Soviet invasion of Europe.

It should have been disbanded decades ago.

Putting a new label on the bear doesn't change his appetite.

Saying that humans are just dumb bears is something pulled from left field that rationally addresses nothing.

Putin is a response to NATO expansion and US aggression in places like Iraq.

When people are afraid they turn to a strong man.

When people feel safe they throw the strong man out.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

First of all, nobody is occupying Crimea, they had referendum and choose to leave Ukraine and go back to Russia (the referendum which they robbed of in 93-94 by Kiev). And second of all, NATO has occupied parts of Serbia for what? 20 years?

They didn't have anything like a fair vote on that referendum and the status quo wasn't even an option.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The purpose of NATO was to guard against a Soviet invasion of Europe.

It should have been disbanded decades ago.

Putting a new label on the bear doesn't change his appetite.

Saying that humans are just dumb bears is something pulled from left field that rationally addresses nothing.

Putin is a response to NATO expansion and US aggression in places like Iraq.

When people are afraid they turn to a strong man.

When people feel safe they throw the strong man out.

I wasn't equating humans to dumb bears. Apparently you are not aware of the Russian Bear: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Bear

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Yeah, because there is absolutely no history of Russian invasions into Europe. Really, Poles, Finns, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgrians, Romanians, Hungarians and East Germans are all simply paranoic ignoramuses.

Oh boy, ignorance is just unbelievable in this one. ...

And you proved it with such horseshit half-truth Russian apologia as "Russia did occupy Poland (and its parts Lithuania/Latvia) and Finland. But that because Poland and Sweden both were royal pain in the ass." Your response would be hilarious except it is painfully obvious you believe your moronic delusions.

I think they just want Alaska back. They screwed the pooch on that one and hate themselves for it.

 

[barbos]

First of all, nobody is occupying Crimea, they had referendum and choose to leave Ukraine and go back to Russia (the referendum which they robbed of in 93-94 by Kiev). And second of all, NATO has occupied parts of Serbia for what? 20 years?

They didn't have anything like a fair vote on that referendum and the status quo wasn't even an option.

I heard you the first million times. your "argument" was and still is BS.
Why don't you suggest another "fair" referendum ?

 

[barbos]

Yeah, because there is absolutely no history of Russian invasions into Europe. Really, Poles, Finns, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgrians, Romanians, Hungarians and East Germans are all simply paranoic ignoramuses.

Oh boy, ignorance is just unbelievable in this one. ...

And you proved it with such horseshit half-truth Russian apologia as "Russia did occupy Poland (and its parts Lithuania/Latvia) and Finland. But that because Poland and Sweden both were royal pain in the ass." Your response would be hilarious except it is painfully obvious you believe your moronic delusions.

Moronic are your posts which are so void of substance that just ask for ignore.
I utterly destroyed your retarded argument.

 

[barbos]

What Russian aggression in Europe?

Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine?

Which Chechnya are we talking about here? 19 century? or soviet time when it was recognized as part of Russia?
Georgia? we have been over this, these republics left Georgia fair and square, and they have never been part of Independent Georgia in the first place.
Ukraine? again, there is only one agression there - NATO/West against Russia.
I asked laughable dog why would Great Britain occupy Crimea, he of course did not answer that question, probably because he was ignorant of that fact. I will ask you what the hell Great Britain was thinking when they invaded Crimea?

Again, you display utter ignorance of the facts and blindly repeat western propaganda lies.

 

[laughing dog]

Moronic are your posts which are so void of substance that just ask for ignore.

To be fair, your responses do ignore the content of my posts and reality, so operationally you are ignoring them.

I utterly destroyed your retarded argument.

You admitted Russia invaded Bulgaria, Finland, Poland, Latvia and Lithuania. Which means you did proved my argument. Then you went on to rant about Britain and the Crimea which had absolutely nothing to do with my argument.


However, I do acknowledge that from your posts that you have established yourself as a topnotch expert in retarded arguments.

 

[barbos]

Moronic are your posts which are so void of substance that just ask for ignore.

To be fair, your responses do ignore the content of my posts and reality, so operationally you are ignoring them.

I utterly destroyed your retarded argument.

You admitted Russia invaded Bulgaria, Finland, Poland, Latvia and Lithuania. Which means you did proved my argument. Then you went on to rant about Britain and the Crimea which had absolutely nothing to do with my argument.

I am glad you finally admit that you are topnotch laughable above Trump level in asshole and degenerate arguments which are worthy of ignore.

However, I do acknowledge that from your posts that you have established yourself as a topnotch expert in retarded arguments.

 

[laughing dog]

I am glad you finally admit that you are topnotch laughable above Trump level in asshole and degenerate arguments which are worthy of ignore.

I did no such thing, as anyone with even the most basic reading and reasoning skills can see. There really is no need to continue to try to establish yourself by example as an expert in retarded arguments.

There is no shame in making factually incorrect statements. Russia has a long and established history of invading European countries. I understand your insults are an attempt to deflect from your persistent false statements, but all they accomplish is to bring more attention to their ridiculous nature.

History gives Europeans every reason to remain suspicious of Russian intentions. That makes NATO a reasonable solution to those suspicions.