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Trumpists Are Suffering the Free Market Consequences Of Being Deplorable

Incivility to fight incivility and end incivility is not a good plan.

Says the bullies to the bullied who would dare become incivil.

Again, not you specifically; just as a general trope. I take your point, but I don’t give a shit about it. It’s time the bullied kick the bullies not for the sake of it, for the reason that it’s time they stopped bullying and we stopped being bullied.
 
Incivility to fight incivility and end incivility is not a good plan.

Says the bullies to the bullied who would dare become incivil.

Again, not you specifically; just as a general trope. I take your point, but I don’t give a shit about it. It’s time the bullied kick the bullies not for the sake of it, for the reason that it’s time they stopped bullying and we stopped being bullied.

The choice is not between being a bully and being bullied.

It is between being a bully and not being a bully.
 
Incivility to fight incivility and end incivility is not a good plan.

Walking away from a fistfight you can avoid is always a good idea because the chance of something good coming from it are so minuscule that the risk simply isn't worth it. However, when cornered, and when there's no other way out, you have to make the choice of simply getting the shit beat out of you, or fighting back. And if the guy who's cornered you has a bat, you better hope you have an instrument at least equal to the bat. At that point, to consider the use a blunt force instrument in self-defense immoral is about one half of a step away from suicide.

There are no other nations, no amount of international shame that would stop Trump types from rounding up their enemies and killing them if they could. These people live in a different reality. The violent fringes of the right wing have become enmeshed with the mainstream, and the mainstream has moved farther to the right in order to meet the fringes.

At this point, I'm pretty sure certain members of my own family would report me if it meant I could be taken away for being anti-Trump. I think that's what we're flirting with right now.

I was disgusted and ashamed of the Bush/Cheney administration, but I didn't fear it in terms of the gutting of free speech and other fundamental rights. I fear this administration and I fear its supporters. Maybe spend some time in conservative/Trump forums. See what you come away with. There used to be a pretty big difference between the likes of stormfront and Republican sites. That line has become quite blurry.
 
Nobody is being forced to throw people out of restaurants.

"I was cornered. I had to throw her out!"

This kind of behavior solidifies their base.
 
They want the right to enact zoning and social policies that discriminate against protected class minorities in their own communities, but they want not to suffer the cultural consequences of those views in liberal cities.

I take issue with this. Why should any "Class" of minority be more "protected" than any other?

Do some research on the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Then do some research on "redlining" in real estate.


Your findings should explain to you the context of "protected classes" and why they exist in the United States.
 
Here’s the thing.
[...]
So what happens the minute anyone from the bullied ranks tries to step up and be a bully? Instant hypocritical outrage form the bullies. How dare you step out of your place; only we can do that.
[...]
Iow, an ethical reason for action is justifiable, but a bigoted/ignorant reason for action is not. Or, rather, is less justifiable, but for the same fundamental reason; by not acting on one’s ethics, it is arguably participating or in some way supporting the untethical act of the individual in question. Iow, by NOT kicking someone like Sanders out of your restaurant, an argument could be made that you are participating in or otherwise supporting or even condoning the unethical behavior. You are, after all, providing sustenance to a perpetrator of evil against mankind.

It may be tenuous, but it is certainly arguable that by feeding a nazi (and thereby contributing to their continued existence) you are contributing to the problem.

Well and comprehensively said.
 
The restaurant business is tough enough without alienating more than half the locals.

If the owner(s) are that passionate about politics and not liking Trump there some coin to be made on Social media without risking much money or working that hard.
 
They want the right to enact zoning and social policies that discriminate against protected class minorities in their own communities, but they want not to suffer the cultural consequences of those views in liberal cities.

I take issue with this. Why should any "Class" of minority be more "protected" than any other?

Do some research on the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Then do some research on "redlining" in real estate.


Your findings should explain to you the context of "protected classes" and why they exist in the United States.

It would have been better if the service had proceeded perhaps somewhat perfunctorily and fecklessly, and with a low-voiced running commentary in Sour Sarah's ear about just how disgusting she is in job. If she or any of her party got loud, disruptive, or physically theatening, they could be asked to leave.
 
Here’s the thing. Only Republicans are allowed to be bullies. Democrats are the bullied. Think back to high school. I would bet even money that anyone from your high school that was a bully then is a Republican now and anyone that was bullied then is a Democrat now. Some may have crossed over; the bullied growing up refusing to be bullied and what are they now? Republicans.

So what happens the minute anyone from the bullied ranks tries to step up and be a bully? Instant hypocritical outrage form the bullies. How dare you step out of your place; only we can do that.


Anecdotal, but I had a different experience.

There was this kid in middle school who kept trying to pick a fight with me. Because I was small, meek, he was one of the tough guys, and I guess he wanted to drive that point home by giving me a beating. For the longest time, I didn't take the bait. Then one day he pushed me up against a wall and said "so you gonna fight me or what?"

Without even dropping my books, I clocked him in the jaw as hard as I could. That was the end of the fight. He stormed off. One of my friends said he may have been crying.

Later that day, I was in shop class. One of the baddest kids in school was in the class. He came up and tapped me on the shoulder and said "I heard you punched out my little brother today."

Oh shit. "Yeah," I stammered...

"I kinda did."

He said "Good...the little bastard deserved it."

In a way, this situation is like that. One of the biggest bullies in school got punched in the face (metaphorically) and is outraged that someone stood up to her. The difference is that there's no older brother to say "good for you." That said, with the bullies in charge, there needs to be more people willing to punch them in the face. To stand up to them, and not keep backing down and walking away when they try to keep us under heel.
 
Incivility to fight incivility and end incivility is not a good plan.

Says the bullies to the bullied who would dare become incivil.

Again, not you specifically; just as a general trope. I take your point, but I don’t give a shit about it. It’s time the bullied kick the bullies not for the sake of it, for the reason that it’s time they stopped bullying and we stopped being bullied.

The choice is not between being a bully and being bullied.

It is between being a bully and not being a bully.

False equivalence. Again, the act of kicking someone out of a restaurant is not the issue. People get kicked out of restaurants all the time for a myriad of different perfectly legitimate reasons.

Thus, the issue is the reason behind the act, not the act itself. I.e., rational vs irrational.

In this case, the reason was that Sanders is a willing participant in a fascist state who constantly lies to the American people about that state. Feeding her (arguably) contributes to her ongoing existence which in turn contributes to her ongoing erosion of our nation.

Again, tenuous, but justifiable.
 
Here’s the thing. Only Republicans are allowed to be bullies. Democrats are the bullied. Think back to high school. I would bet even money that anyone from your high school that was a bully then is a Republican now and anyone that was bullied then is a Democrat now. Some may have crossed over; the bullied growing up refusing to be bullied and what are they now? Republicans.

So what happens the minute anyone from the bullied ranks tries to step up and be a bully? Instant hypocritical outrage form the bullies. How dare you step out of your place; only we can do that.

And one of the tools of keeping the bullied in place is what Untermensch invoked; taking the high road. While true—Gandhi seemed to use it to effective ends as well as King, at least outwardly if we ignore the more questionable practices in their personal lives—it is still a tool that keeps us in our place and the bullies in their place.

Just look at everything Trump has gotten away with that would never have been tolerated for a single news cycle had it been done by any Dem. Republicans—the bullies—have conditioned Americans into an environment where they can lie, cheat and steal while Democrats can’t even use an email server.

And no, it does not make us “just like them” for one simple reason; we can determine right from wrong. They kick someone out of their restaurant based on ingrained ignorance in regard to how much melanin is in their skin. We kick someone out of our restaurant based on a full understanding of their willing participation in disseminating fascist lies.

These are not equivalent. Or, rather, they are equal actions, with disparate justifications, which makes all the difference. Iow, it isn’t the fact that someone was kicked out of restaurant; it is the reason they were kicked out that matters. We have no issue with a proprietor kicking an abusive individual out of their restaurant or a drunk, obnoxious person out, etc. So the act of kicking someone out isn’t relevant. The only relevance is why they are being kicked out and in that regard there is no equivalence.

UM also mentioned Obama’s drone program. And, believe it or not, UM, I’m not singling you out in any of this, just riffing on what you’ve posted as they are points well made and time worn through no fault of your own.

If a proprietor were to kick Obama out for the express reason that the proprietor felt the drone program was unethical, then I think that’s a justifiable reason to refuse Obama service. If, however, he kicked him out because Obama was black, not justifiable.

Iow, an ethical reason for action is justifiable, but a bigoted/ignorant reason for action is not. Or, rather, is less justifiable, but for the same fundamental reason; by not acting on one’s ethics, it is arguably participating or in some way supporting the untethical act of the individual in question. Iow, by NOT kicking someone like Sanders out of your restaurant, an argument could be made that you are participating in or otherwise supporting or even condoning the unethical behavior. You are, after all, providing sustenance to a perpetrator of evil against mankind.

It may be tenuous, but it is certainly arguable that by feeding a nazi (and thereby contributing to their continued existence) you are contributing to the problem.

This is well written and argued.
 
Nobody is being forced to throw people out of restaurants.

"I was cornered. I had to throw her out!"

This kind of behavior solidifies their base.

Their base is as solidified by our response as it is encouraged by our "they go low and we go high" attitude. It's viewed as weak by them. They're authoritarian, they respect strength and that's about it. We've been playing nice for some time now. Now we're down a crucial supreme court nomination, and they are currently bullying law enforcement into submission with their conspiracy theories and corruption, literally trying to weasel their leader out of criminal judgement for his crimes.

What are the Democrats doing? Trying to not make too big an issue of the Russian thing. ​If you never stand up for yourself, eventually you become complicit in the abuse you receive.
 
Whatever happened to "bake the damn cake"?

It is quite common (almost ubiquitous) for people to be refused service in the US when they don't meet the minimum standards of decency the establishment has dictated. "No shirt, No shoes, No service." It is unsurprising that SHS doesn't meet the minimum standards of decency to be served in some establishments in this country.

I'm sure if she were to make the active choice to stop lying and giving cover to corruption at the highest levels of government the proprietors might be willing to serve her, just like the slob who refuses to wear shoes in the grocery store.
 
The Dems are going to get slaughtered in the next election.
 
Whatever happened to "bake the damn cake"?

Read Koy's response again.


Also, one can't help but approve that she was being judged not for the color of her skin, but the content of her character.

- - - Updated - - -

The Dems are going to get slaughtered in the next election.

because of _this?_



They seem generally clueless in regards to optics. They're having fun being assholes but it's going to bite them in the rear.


Another example

 
The choice is not between being a bully and being bullied.

It is between being a bully and not being a bully.

False equivalence. Again, the act of kicking someone out of a restaurant is not the issue. People get kicked out of restaurants all the time for a myriad of different perfectly legitimate reasons.

Thus, the issue is the reason behind the act, not the act itself. I.e., rational vs irrational.

In this case, the reason was that Sanders is a willing participant in a fascist state who constantly lies to the American people about that state. Feeding her (arguably) contributes to her ongoing existence which in turn contributes to her ongoing erosion of our nation.

Again, tenuous, but justifiable.

When I see the phrase "false equivalence" when no equivalence was ever implied I cringe.

It is a lazy excuse for a response.

You are trying to justify uncivil behavior (throwing people out of restaurants) because you claim to not like uncivil behavior, like lying and rudeness.

About as absurd a defense imaginable.
 
Here’s the thing. Only Republicans are allowed to be bullies. Democrats are the bullied. Think back to high school. I would bet even money that anyone from your high school that was a bully then is a Republican now and anyone that was bullied then is a Democrat now. Some may have crossed over; the bullied growing up refusing to be bullied and what are they now? Republicans.

So what happens the minute anyone from the bullied ranks tries to step up and be a bully? Instant hypocritical outrage form the bullies. How dare you step out of your place; only we can do that.

And one of the tools of keeping the bullied in place is what Untermensch invoked; taking the high road. While true—Gandhi seemed to use it to effective ends as well as King, at least outwardly if we ignore the more questionable practices in their personal lives—it is still a tool that keeps us in our place and the bullies in their place.

Just look at everything Trump has gotten away with that would never have been tolerated for a single news cycle had it been done by any Dem. Republicans—the bullies—have conditioned Americans into an environment where they can lie, cheat and steal while Democrats can’t even use an email server.

And no, it does not make us “just like them” for one simple reason; we can determine right from wrong. They kick someone out of their restaurant based on ingrained ignorance in regard to how much melanin is in their skin. We kick someone out of our restaurant based on a full understanding of their willing participation in disseminating fascist lies.

These are not equivalent. Or, rather, they are equal actions, with disparate justifications, which makes all the difference. Iow, it isn’t the fact that someone was kicked out of restaurant; it is the reason they were kicked out that matters. We have no issue with a proprietor kicking an abusive individual out of their restaurant or a drunk, obnoxious person out, etc. So the act of kicking someone out isn’t relevant. The only relevance is why they are being kicked out and in that regard there is no equivalence.

UM also mentioned Obama’s drone program. And, believe it or not, UM, I’m not singling you out in any of this, just riffing on what you’ve posted as they are points well made and time worn through no fault of your own.

If a proprietor were to kick Obama out for the express reason that the proprietor felt the drone program was unethical, then I think that’s a justifiable reason to refuse Obama service. If, however, he kicked him out because Obama was black, not justifiable.

Iow, an ethical reason for action is justifiable, but a bigoted/ignorant reason for action is not. Or, rather, is less justifiable, but for the same fundamental reason; by not acting on one’s ethics, it is arguably participating or in some way supporting the untethical act of the individual in question. Iow, by NOT kicking someone like Sanders out of your restaurant, an argument could be made that you are participating in or otherwise supporting or even condoning the unethical behavior. You are, after all, providing sustenance to a perpetrator of evil against mankind.

It may be tenuous, but it is certainly arguable that by feeding a nazi (and thereby contributing to their continued existence) you are contributing to the problem.

you mean like this?

 
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