Trump's Tax Returns

[Ford]

Am I missing something here?

As has been pointed out already, he's the first President in 40 years to have refused to release any tax return.

As has been pointed out already, he repeatedly promised to release his tax returns.

He has also claimed he can't release his returns because he is under audit, which is demonstrably false.

He has claimed he has nothing to hide, yet he's hiding everything.

And let's say the IRS finds evidence of wrongdoing. They can't release his information without his consent, and his AG - as has already been demonstrated - will assist him in hiding the information and absolving him of any crimes.

 

[barbos]

This hyperfocus on Russia has really been detrimental and has backfired.

I totally disagree It's the focus on Trump that is detrimental. The Russia matter is of urgent concern that should require hyperfocus on someone's part. That's why we hired Mueller. The focus on Trump has taken the collective eye off the ball, which is election rigging by a hostile foreign power, and putting a stop to it.

Funny, Just yesterday Kurt Volker told ukrainians how they should vote and why. Unsurprisingly he said they should vote for Poroshenko because he is ...... anti-Putin.
And before that we learned how Joe Biden fired ukrainian AG who was investigating corruption links of .... his son Hunter Biden.

 

[zorq]

This hyperfocus on Russia has really been detrimental and has backfired.

I totally disagree It's the focus on Trump that is detrimental. The Russia matter is of urgent concern that should require hyperfocus on someone's part. That's why we hired Mueller. The focus on Trump has taken the collective eye off the ball, which is election rigging by a hostile foreign power, and putting a stop to it.

Funny, Just yesterday Kurt Volker told ukrainians how they should vote and why. Unsurprisingly he said they should vote for Poroshenko because he is ...... anti-Putin.
And before that we learned how Joe Biden fired ukrainian AG who was investigating corruption links of .... his son Hunter Biden.

That second thing you mention has nothing to do with elections. It's completely off topic, but still a fascinating story of likely corruption that I wasn't aware of. But when you are trying to deflect Russian allegations, it helps if you don't go spinning off in crazy directions or people will see through your deflections too easily, so try to avoid that in the future.

The first thing you mention is more on topic, if we consider that the topic has shifted to Elixer's thesis that Trump (including his taxes) is the distraction from the intervention of foreign powers on US democracy. But it is so curious as to why you would bring it up. First of all, offering an opinion on the better candidate doesn't qualify as election rigging, election meddling, or even election tampering in the slightest. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one.

But let me ask you, don't you think you can imagine a reason why an anti-Putin candidate might be a good choice for Ukraine? Pretend you are Ukranian for a moment. Don't you think that a foreign power like Russia, that used subterfuge, a surprise invastion, and a bogus (extra-constitutional) referendum to annex part of your country, and then hired mercenaries and trained rebel forces to act violently against the government in another part of your country, that maybe that that foreign power, Russia, might not have the best interests of the people in your country at heart?

Really now... offering a recommendation for an anti-Putin candidate in Ukraine is good sense, despite any other drawbacks that candidate might have.

Should we even start talking about the documented election meddling Russia has done in the Ukraine?

 

[barbos]

Funny, Just yesterday Kurt Volker told ukrainians how they should vote and why. Unsurprisingly he said they should vote for Poroshenko because he is ...... anti-Putin.
And before that we learned how Joe Biden fired ukrainian AG who was investigating corruption links of .... his son Hunter Biden.

That second thing you mention has nothing to do with elections. It's completely off topic, but still a fascinating story of likely corruption that I wasn't aware of. But when you are trying to deflect Russian allegations, it helps if you don't go spinning off in crazy directions or people will see through your deflections too easily, so try to avoid that in the future.

I am not trying to deflect, I am trying to explain that you can't go ape-shit about russuan meddling in your elections when US does 100 times more of that.

The first thing you mention is more on topic, if we consider that the topic has shifted to Elixer's thesis that Trump (including his taxes) is the distraction from the intervention of foreign powers on US democracy. But it is so curious as to why you would bring it up. First of all, offering an opinion on the better candidate doesn't qualify as election rigging, election meddling, or even election tampering in the slightest. Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one.

Actually it does, it tells that Ukraine will lose in terms of their relations with US if they elect comedian.

But let me ask you, don't you think you can imagine a reason why an anti-Putin candidate might be a good choice for Ukraine? Pretend you are Ukranian for a moment. Don't you think that a foreign power like Russia, that used subterfuge, a surprise invastion, and a bogus (extra-constitutional) referendum to annex part of your country,

Here is a thing, you assume that ukrainians buy the shit you are selling, they are not. They know damn well, that Crimea have never been a part of Ukraine, and they are damn well aware that Eastern Ukraine are not going to learn to speak ukrainian no matter what. And it was utter stupidity to even suggest such a thing.

and then hired mercenaries and trained rebel forces to act violently against the government in another part of your country, that maybe that that foreign power, Russia, might not have the best interests of the people in your country at heart?

Really now... offering a recommendation for an anti-Putin candidate in Ukraine is good sense, despite any other drawbacks that candidate might have.

Should we even start talking about the documented election meddling Russia has done in the Ukraine?

You honestly believe this shit? After anti-Poroshjenko candidate got twice as many votes as anti-Putin?
This is after Eastern ukrainians (pro-russian) voters were excluded from the elections, which is understandable, but ukrainians which live in Russia were excluded as well.

So stop pretending that US does not meddle in other countries elections.
South Korea only recently had free elections, before that it was a joke. US was supporting SOBs based on their own vision of what is good for US Korea. I admit it worked eventually for Korea. But it did not work in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Libya and Syria. And so far it does not work in Ukraine.
So Russian meddling investigation should start with American meddling investigation.

 

[zorq]

Barbos, I don't know how you manage to maintain your delusions.

When the garbage man comes to take the trash away he doesn't point a loaded weapon in your face. Russia wasn't doing the Ukraine a favor by stealing Crimea back. The hundreds of armed soldiers Putin sent into Crimea prove to all of us that he knew he was taking what didn't belong to him. Russia isn't doing Ukraine a favor by funding, supplying and training terrorists within her own boarders. You know this as well as the rest of us.

When will you stop sucking at the teat of Russian propaganda?

 

[barbos]

Barbos, I don't know how you manage to maintain your delusions.

When the garbage man comes to take the trash away he doesn't point a loaded weapon in your face. Russia wasn't doing the Ukraine a favor by stealing Crimea back. The hundreds of armed soldiers Putin sent into Crimea prove to all of us that he knew he was taking what didn't belong to him. Russia isn't doing Ukraine a favor by funding, supplying and training terrorists within her own boarders. You know this as well as the rest of us.

When will you stop sucking at the teat of Russian propaganda?

Delusions are all yours. That's why EU and US ban their own people from visiting Crimea. That's the only way to maintain a lie which perpetuated by the western media.

 

[zorq]

Barbos, I don't know how you manage to maintain your delusions.

When the garbage man comes to take the trash away he doesn't point a loaded weapon in your face. Russia wasn't doing the Ukraine a favor by stealing Crimea back. The hundreds of armed soldiers Putin sent into Crimea prove to all of us that he knew he was taking what didn't belong to him. Russia isn't doing Ukraine a favor by funding, supplying and training terrorists within her own boarders. You know this as well as the rest of us.

When will you stop sucking at the teat of Russian propaganda?

Delusions are all yours. That's why EU and US ban their own people from visiting Crimea. That's the only way to maintain a lie which perpetuated by the western media.

This is just more proof that you are being lied to and you don't even care. US citizens are NOT prohibited from traveling to Crimea by the US government. But of course, who would WANT to visit Crimea, what with the huge military presence and the constant threat of foreigners being imprisoned if they mention the illegal occupation of the peninsula? You are being fed a constant stream of disinformation and you aren't event TRYING to verify it anymore.

Russia is bad news, literally and figuratively. Wake up.

 

[barbos]

Barbos, I don't know how you manage to maintain your delusions.

When the garbage man comes to take the trash away he doesn't point a loaded weapon in your face. Russia wasn't doing the Ukraine a favor by stealing Crimea back. The hundreds of armed soldiers Putin sent into Crimea prove to all of us that he knew he was taking what didn't belong to him. Russia isn't doing Ukraine a favor by funding, supplying and training terrorists within her own boarders. You know this as well as the rest of us.

When will you stop sucking at the teat of Russian propaganda?

Delusions are all yours. That's why EU and US ban their own people from visiting Crimea. That's the only way to maintain a lie which perpetuated by the western media.

This is just more proof that you are being lied to and you don't even care.
US citizens are NOT prohibited from traveling to Crimea by the US government.

State department disagrees
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...traveladvisories/ukraine-travel-advisory.html
And yes, that's effectively a ban as as far as american freedom concerned.
As for EU, they sanction their diplomats and discourage in general.

But of course, who would WANT to visit Crimea, what with the huge military presence and the constant threat of foreigners being imprisoned if they mention the illegal occupation of the peninsula?

Well, some wanted and went there and were surprised to learn than western media were full of shit in their coverage of Crimea.

You are being fed a constant stream of disinformation and you aren't event TRYING to verify it anymore.

Nope, it's you.

Russia is bad news, literally and figuratively. Wake up.

I am not saying Russia is great news, just giving you some balanced view.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

State department disagrees
https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...traveladvisories/ukraine-travel-advisory.html
And yes, that's effectively a ban as as far as american freedom concerned.

No, that is not in any way a ban ("effectively" or otherwise). It stated quite clearly at the top that it's a stern advisory (a warning):

Exercise increased caution in Ukraine due to crime, civil unrest and elections. Some areas have increased risk. Read the entire Travel Advisory.

Do not travel to:

• Crimea due to arbitrary detentions and other abuses by Russian occupation authorities.

...

Crimea – Level 4: Do Not Travel

There is extensive Russian Federation military presence in Crimea as part of Russia’s occupation and attempted annexation of this part of Ukraine. Occupation authorities continue to abuse and arbitrarily imprison foreigners and the local population, particularly individuals who are seen as challenging Russian authority on the peninsula.

The U.S. government prohibits its employees from traveling to Crimea and is unable to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in Crimea.

Iow, government employees are banned, but US citizens are merely strongly cautioned not to travel to Crimea in particular, but it is in no way a ban on travel and certainly not "as far as american freedom concerned" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean).

Iow, "Do Not Travel" does not translate into "You Are Forbidden To Travel." It's a stern warning, not a ban.

 

[ZiprHead]

Barbos Barbos

Mexico has the same travel advisory.

 

[zorq]

The U.S. government prohibits its employees from traveling to Crimea and is unable to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in Crimea.

Thanks Koyaanisqatsi. I just want to emphasize to Barbos the part about US government employees being prohibited as that really distinguishes the difference between what is allowed for US citizens.

Other than that, I'm done derailing this thread. Barbos thinks he is bringing balance to a thread that mentioned the serious nature of Russian misdeeds by insisting that Russian misdeeds aren't really that bad and pointing out that the US has done some seriously messed up shit too. I can't, won't, and never have denied that the US has done and is still doing a lot of messed up shit, but it has no bearing on the messed up shit that Russia has done and is still doing in Ukraine and just about everywhere else.

Moving on.

 

[barbos]

Barbos Barbos

Mexico has the same travel advisory.

Well, they deserve it. Ask Trump
Reality is, Crimea is no different than the most of Russia. The only reason it's different is because State Department wants you to think that.

 

[barbos]

The U.S. government prohibits its employees from traveling to Crimea and is unable to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in Crimea.

Thanks Koyaanisqatsi.

LOL, it directly contradicts the State Department link I gave. So you need to choose what to believe

And what about tax returns?

 

[ideologyhunter]

Worldtraveler said a mouthful. It rankles me every time I hear someone say, "That's just political." Yeah, it is, and now you can enumerate for us the topics that AREN'T political. School bus routes...political. What books appear on the public library shelves...political. Norms of public discourse... movie ratings...Jussie Smollett...internet access...political. The extent of our President's mendacity? You bet that's political. Trump needs the kind of countermoves that he never faced until three months ago. No mistake, we know he's a pathological liar and con man. This is a guy who cut a check for $25 million (which must've killed him) to make the Trump University scam go away. Is it presumptuous to see the tip of an iceberg in that?

 

[Elixir]

... you can't go ape-shit about russuan meddling in your elections when US does 100 times more of that.

If the US did anything like what was done to us in 2016, Pootey and his henchmen would have been long-since replaced by some American-flag-waving democrat.
I guess you didn't notice that the US "president" is a treasonous self-interested scumbag who was set up to be a russian puppet years ago...

 

[Elixir]

I would bet that after we get this clown pushed out of the White House, that Congress will pass a law requiring prospective presidents (say after being nominated by their respective party) to release at least the last 3 tax returns.

Democrat Presidential Nominees. Based on McConnell going nuclear on the Judicial Nomination process, any changes would be nothing but partisan.

Good chance that Turtle is deposed in 2020. If the Dems take the WH and Senate and retain the House, look for a couple of seats to be added to the SCOTUS in short order. And thanks to Turtle's legacy, it will be no problem to
* fill those seats with super leftists, and then
* legislate a permanent end to simple majority appointments in the future.

Every dirty trick invented and fielded by the Turtle/Trumpkin duopoly will be turned against them with a fervor unseen in any previous Democrat administration. I wouldn't be surprised if they re-write the terms of impeachment of lifetime judicial appointees of Trumpkin, and proceed to clean house.
As far as "requiring" the release of tax returns, they might well legislate such a thing, but probably won't enforce it against their own, any more than any currently existing laws are enforced against the current administration and its flunkies.

If the dems do get both houses of Congress and the White House, this corrupt administration might be the last gasp of minority rule by Republicans, and the dawn of a new age of Democratic majority corruption.
It's all POLITICAL, y'know.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

The U.S. government prohibits its employees from traveling to Crimea and is unable to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in Crimea.

Thanks Koyaanisqatsi.

LOL, it directly contradicts the State Department link I gave.

That is from the State Department link you gave. It does NOT ban travel to Crimea for US citizens. Only government employees.

 

[barbos]

... you can't go ape-shit about russuan meddling in your elections when US does 100 times more of that.

If the US did anything like what was done to us in 2016, Pootey and his henchmen would have been long-since replaced by some American-flag-waving democrat.
I guess you didn't notice that the US "president" is a treasonous self-interested scumbag who was set up to be a russian puppet years ago...

US was paying opposition in Russia untill very recently and US citizens were running Yeltsin campaign as advisers, and he won becasue of them and oligarchs Russia has now were all created as a result of US lead Yeltsin presidential campaign.
Look at what was happening in Ukraine as well.
Imagine Peskov In Washington sitting on Trump's campaign.
Bunch of trolls are not comparable to what US does. And who really measured the impact of these trolls anyway?
Even democrats I saw agree it was negligible. It's a matter of principle for them forgetting that US has whole news corporations trolling whole World.
Leaked emails? Ok, lets look at that. It's widely believed that russian government have something to do with it. That's the only issue here, had it been leaked by someone else they would have been heroes. Luckily for democrats they were able to shift focus from the content of the emails to the "fact" that bad russians did it. Good for them, their political science education was paid off.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That is from the State Department link you gave. It does NOT ban travel to Crimea for US citizens. Only government employees.

yeah, like, you know, people the US govt. can actually give orders to....

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

... you can't go ape-shit about russuan meddling in your elections when US does 100 times more of that.

If the US did anything like what was done to us in 2016, Pootey and his henchmen would have been long-since replaced by some American-flag-waving democrat.
I guess you didn't notice that the US "president" is a treasonous self-interested scumbag who was set up to be a russian puppet years ago...

US was paying opposition in Russia untill very recently and US citizens were running Yeltsin campaign as advisers, and he won becasue of them and oligarchs Russia has now were all created as a result of US lead Yeltsin presidential campaign.
Look at what was happening in Ukraine as well.
Imagine Peskov In Washington sitting on Trump's campaign.
Bunch of trolls are not comparable to what US does.

So, once again your whataboutism establishes that you agree with us that it’s wrong and should be stopped by government/legal action.

And who really measured the impact of these trolls anyway?

Aside from the fact that it has been measured in various ways, what difference would that make? That’s like focusing on the “third rate” part of the burglary at the Watergate hotel.

Even democrats I saw agree it was negligible.

It's not. See previous link.

It's a matter of principle for them forgetting that US has whole news corporations trolling whole World.

More whataboutism.

Leaked emails? Ok, lets look at that. It's widely believed that russian government have something to do with it.

No, it’s a matter of well established fact that the Russian government had everything to do with it. And they weren’t “leaked;” they were stolen and then disseminated deliberately as part of a cyber attack effort against our country.

I don’t give a flying fuck what OTHER shit government’s do, your government got caught. Plain and simple.

Your line of tu quoque is idiotic. It is identical to saying, “People murder people all the time. Why care about this one murder then?”

That's the only issue here, had it been leaked stolen by someone else they would have been heroes.

False.

Luckily for democrats they were able to shift focus from the content of the emails to the "fact" that bad russians did it.

Russians did do it and there was no shifting of focus, in spite of the fact that none of the emails actually contained anything damaging. That was the problem. No matter what the Clinton campaign did, they could not shift focus off of an actual “witch hunt” and onto the fact that it was evidence of an act of war by Russia.

Good for them, their political science education was paid off.

That particular division of poli sci falls under the term “rat-fucking” in the US. You should look it up. It’s basically the basis of Russia’s entire post-Tsar political history. Well, that and just straight up murder of course.