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Trumpstains trust Trump more than friends or family

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If the fucker actually had a plan he could do something.

That's why the SOB needs to go to prison. Somehow. If not, then America's plunge into its version of the Dark Ages will merely be delayed. Trump has exposed just how far the GOP is willing to go, and just how authoritarian minded a large percentage of Americans are. Someone with actual charisma who knows how things actually work, and who has the will to implement what Trump would like to (e.g. ending down free speech) could quickly make dictatorship actually happen. Trump's a ham-handed, bumbling ignoramus whose sheer laziness with respect to learning anything will likely prevent him from ending the U.S. government as we know it.

Someone who isn't Trump could do it in a matter of months.
 
No surprise here. Most of these people have never had much exposure to real news, nor do they have the critical analytical skills to evaluate it if it were presented them.

Many of Trump's supporters are authoritarian followers, who like things simple, black and white and who tend to be uncritically supportive of leaders and authorities perceived as legitimate.
 
If the fucker actually had a plan he could do something.

That's why the SOB needs to go to prison. Somehow. If not, then America's plunge into its version of the Dark Ages will merely be delayed. Trump has exposed just how far the GOP is willing to go, and just how authoritarian minded a large percentage of Americans are. Someone with actual charisma who knows how things actually work, and who has the will to implement what Trump would like to (e.g. ending down free speech) could quickly make dictatorship actually happen. Trump's a ham-handed, bumbling ignoramus whose sheer laziness with respect to learning anything will likely prevent him from ending the U.S. government as we know it.

Someone who isn't Trump could do it in a matter of months.

Putting Trump in prison will start a civil war. Most conservatives and libertarians would rather destroy the nation in an unnecessary civil war than allow a traitor to be punished, because they are also traitors. To them, punishing one traitor is like punishing all traitors, so they would see it as an attack on themselves.
 
Putting Trump in prison will start a civil war.

They have nowhere near the numbers for any such thing. At best, Trump's core supporters--the ones so fanatical as to attempt any such violence--amount to only about 5% of Republicans, let alone Americans in general.

There will no doubt be an increase (as there is now) in isolated hate crimes--and the media (as they are doing now) will no doubt blow them out of proportion--but for any kind of real civil war to erupt would require that something on the order of 40% (or more) total Americans suddenly and miraculously rise up together in a coordinated effort.

And long before that could ever happen, the military would be called in to effortlessly wipe any such uprising off the map. Hell, a dozen drones would take care of it in a few moments. But, remember, we know from the "leak" a few months back that Trump isn't in control of anything, so that 40% threshold would never be met in the first place let alone breached.

Most conservatives and libertarians would rather destroy the nation in an unnecessary civil war than allow a traitor to be punished, because they are also traitors. To them, punishing one traitor is like punishing all traitors, so they would see it as an attack on themselves.

Once Mueller (and then the House, in particular) gets through with revealing the full extent of crimes Trump is guilty of, the majority will be on board with his ouster. The first stage will be to get him to resign. The window for that offer is very small and is likely being offered right about now, in fact, if not in the next few weeks leading up to Christmas (which is when he would have his last chance to get out and have Pence pardon him).

If his ego forces him--tourette's style--to commit suicide, then he'll not only be facing the exhaustively detailed Mueller report, but also the endless months of very public House investigations, featuring week after week after week of nearly non-stop public testimony detailing every single tiny speck of shit up every inch of Trump's corrupt ass.

And if Trump doesn't resign during any of that, Republicans will be looking at the ever decreasing poll numbers--always thinking about the way the House crumbled--in the lead up to 2020 elections.

By then (as it stands now) they will see very clearly and in stark relief that Trump gets them nothing and the majority will indicate a vote for impeachment.

They already know his fate, as indicated by the fact that Mueller is still on the job. As I noted in another thread, it ain't Democrats that are keeping Mueller's investigation open.

They're just waiting on Mueller and then the House to do their dirty work for them (as always) and then they will do what they've been dying to do for a long time now; castrate Trump and feed him his cock (if only to save some of their own hides).

Yes, there will be LOT'S of hot air and bluster and righteous indignation among some, but the majority will just quietly vote to eviscerate him.

Again, that's assuming it ever gets anywhere near that point, which it likely will not. I know everyone likes to say shit like Trump is unpredictable and crazy and the like, but he's first and foremost a narcissist and a coward. Once he sees he truly is fucked--and it will take Mueller pointing the gun and actually pulling halfway down on the trigger to do it, which he knows and is ready and willing and about to do now--he'll more than likely take the self-preservation route.

He knows--and Republicans know--already that he can't possibly win in 2020. They just don't have the numbers and never did.

So it's really just a matter of seeing how close Mueller (and then the House) have to go in pointing the gun in Trump's face before his cowardice overrides his ego.
 
I have a friend that I've known for over 50 years. Through the years, I've stayed on the left politically and while he was more center right, has moved more conservative. Since Trump became his new messiah, it's so awkward to have a conversation. We both are walking on eggshells to avoid political subjects. As a person, I still like and respect him and he returns that. I'm at a stalemate on how to deal with anyone that can watch a video of Trump saying something like "I have always been against xyz" and immediately watch 10 earlier videos of him saying "We need to have more of xyz - it's incredible". And they still believe that he's being honest while the media is lying.
How does one break through a bubble that seems to have the strength of a StarTrek force field ?
 
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They have nowhere near the numbers for any such thing. At best, Trump's core supporters--the ones so fanatical as to attempt any such violence--amount to only about 5% of Republicans, let alone Americans in general.

There will no doubt be an increase (as there is now) in isolated hate crimes--and the media (as they are doing now) will no doubt blow them out of proportion--but for any kind of real civil war to erupt would require that something on the order of 40% (or more) total Americans suddenly and miraculously rise up together in a coordinated effort...

I think you're right about that. However, I do think we're going to see a strong uptick in domestic terrorism; stuff along the lines of the Oklahoma City bombing. It would be unsurprising to see some assassinations too. The Slime have their POTUS and they're not going to be happy when he's forced from office. Even if Trump does make it to 2020, he'll lose (like you said). However, at this point it's inconceivable he'll leave office with maturity. It'll be a time of conspiracy laced tweets, accusations, and other grossly irresponsible statements. IOW, it'll be a bunch of dog whistles calling the more violent among his tribe to action.
 
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...oll-supporters-fans-republicans-a8472111.html

If this surprises you, you haven't been paying attention.

They've already demonstrated that they don't care if he committed treason. If they trust Trump more than they give a fuck about America or the rule of law, they why wouldn't they trust the president more than their own family?

Well, their families share genes with someone who's a Trump supporter, so that puts them way down the list of those who's opinions should be paid attention to. Their friends are the types of people who would be friends with Trump supporters, so that speaks very negatively of their ability to make rational choices and that puts them way down the list of those who's opinions should be paid attention to.

Not putting their trust in these groups of people is probably one of the most reasonable things I've heard about Trump supporters doing.
 
The time for that was what we already saw in the lead-up to the midterms. The midterms were, in turn, an even louder dog whistle. Or, better, wet blanket, putting out most of that fire.

And now Mueller is methodically, strategically releasing any remaining pressure from the cooker out slowly, with each successive (escalating) revelation. He is VERY aware of the same potential and is clearly taking steps to avoid it.

Does that mean there won't be some Steve Banon-types trying to kick up some excuse for violence? Of course not. I'm sure there are many knuckledragging beta cucks out there who wish they had the balls to do something and many other nut-jobs with the screws loose to actually try something, but the midterms kicked most of them in those balls in a way that is far more effective. It was undeniable.

So that takes care of a good 70-80% of any such possible fanatic reactants, leaving a still volatile 20-30% or so. But that's 20-30% of like a total of 10% of the population (or less). And that's still not good, but again, that's who Mueller is keeping in mind in his slow, methodical and inexorable approach. He's already surrounded them and laid down suppressive fire and is slowly pushing them--along with Trump--into ever tightening concentric circles, forcing Trump in particular into a corner that he can't escape from unless he goes through Mueller.

I have no doubt there will be a few attempts and even a few successful events (doubtful they would be as large as Oklahoma, but certainly possible).

But, again, it is the Republicans that are keeping the Mueller investigation going, not the Democrats (they don't have that power yet), so that means among the higher echelons of right-wing power it has already been agreed that Trump is to be eviscerated. And sitting prominently among that right-wing power are all of the military and intelligence communities that Trump has repeatedly shat on throughout this whole debacle. Which means that any such activity would be rogue activity, not sanctioned by the higher ups.

Again, certainly a possibility, but we've clearly gone from Defcon 1 (before midterms) to Defcon 4 (after) in regard to any such activity.

I think the biggest worry would be--as you noted--an assassination attempt against Mueller, but even if that were to happen, it would only strengthen the fire against Trump, not put it out, so any such attempt would therefore likely only come from the truly desperate screw loose nutjobs and thus have a very low probability of success (and something Mueller is likewise already well-aware of).

My guess would be that if we ever see anything like an Oklahoma style attack, it would be an attempt that will fail (precisely because it would be conducted by desperate morons and not higher level professionals) and only then if we ever get to the point of impeachment in the House, which I think unlikely. Trump will likely resign before that actually happens.

Remember, by then, we will have gone through months (possibly years) of extremely detailed and relentless witnesses--one after another after another after another--talking for hours and hours and hours about all of the crimes Trump has committed throughout his entire lifetime.

I'm talking about shit that would make the "pee" tape look like a Skinemax soft-core porn. Trump considered Roy Cohen his "mentor" and Roger Stone a close friend. Allow me to use Oliver Stone to illustrate what that would look like on a regular basis for years:

jfk.jpg

Think of it this way, where we are NOW is about a hundred yards up Mt. Everest. We haven't even begun to get anywhere near the summit of what is about to happen in this country. So you have to look at it from the perspective of being on the summit looking down, not at the base looking up.
 

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I have a friend that I've known for over 50 years. Through the years, I've stayed on the left politically and while he was more center right, has moved more conservative. Since Trump became his new messiah, it's so awkward to have a conversation. We both are walking on eggshells to avoid political subjects. As a person, I still like and respect him and he returns that. I'm at a stalemate on how to deal with anyone that can watch a video of Trump saying something like "I have always been against xyz" and immediately watch 10 earlier videos of him saying "We need to have more of xyz - it's incredible". And they still believe that he's being honest while the media is lying.
How does one break through a bubble that seems to have the strength of a StarTrek force field ?


First, don’t argue. Just ask subtle questions. How do you feel about this? What if Trump were to do that? Then nod your head at his answers. If you argue you won’t get anywhere because he’ll think he’s being manipulated and to agree with you would be to acknowledge your superiority. That won’t happen. He needs to come to the right conclusion of his own accord so he doesn’t feel inferior. Trumpinistas have been made to feel inferior by society around them, and thus more resentful. Remember logic is the method by which we justify our emotional gut feelings about things. It’s not a tool we use to get to the right answer.

SLD
 
I have a friend that I've known for over 50 years. Through the years, I've stayed on the left politically and while he was more center right, has moved more conservative. Since Trump became his new messiah, it's so awkward to have a conversation. We both are walking on eggshells to avoid political subjects. As a person, I still like and respect him and he returns that. I'm at a stalemate on how to deal with anyone that can watch a video of Trump saying something like "I have always been against xyz" and immediately watch 10 earlier videos of him saying "We need to have more of xyz - it's incredible". And they still believe that he's being honest while the media is lying.
How does one break through a bubble that seems to have the strength of a StarTrek force field ?


First, don’t argue. Just ask subtle questions. How do you feel about this? What if Trump were to do that? Then nod your head at his answers. If you argue you won’t get anywhere because he’ll think he’s being manipulated and to agree with you would be to acknowledge your superiority. That won’t happen. He needs to come to the right conclusion of his own accord so he doesn’t feel inferior. Trumpinistas have been made to feel inferior by society around them, and thus more resentful. Remember logic is the method by which we justify our emotional gut feelings about things. It’s not a tool we use to get to the right answer.

SLD

This is excellent advice.

I would add that using videos of Trump speaking could be used to pose these questions. "You said that Trump wants to support X"... "What do you think he meant when he said this...." and then show the video.

Be prepared for a response along the lines of "that was before he became president and learned things the public does not know".. Or "That is just how he talks. He meant something else".
 
regarding the sentiment that "once Mueller exposes the lawlessness, the Republicans will be on board with locking him up", I don't think anyone currently on his side will ever come to that. I believe their thought is that the laws he may have broken were just bullshit hoops our new hugely strong president refuses to jump through because big government is just a bunch of wasted time and my tax money... so, good for him for breaking those nonsense laws... it was all part of making America great again.
 
I don't think anyone currently on his side will ever come to that.

That doesn't matter - the dyed-in-the-wool trumpsuckers only comprise about 17% of the electorate nationwide, and, if the results of the midterms are any indication, only around 50% of the electorate in the deepest red sectors of the country.
Any congresscritter who senses that supporting Trump rather than running away from him is going to jeopardize their re-election chances, will flip on a dime and start running. That will happen when Cheato's overall approval among Republicans drops to 50-60%. We're not there yet, but the trend is clear - if something doesn't change very soon, he'll be at that point by next summer. I'm sure Cheato will declare a "National Emergency" sometime between now and then, in a power-grab that may or may not succeed, depending on his timing and other surrounding conditions.
 
regarding the sentiment that "once Mueller exposes the lawlessness, the Republicans will be on board with locking him up", I don't think anyone currently on his side will ever come to that.

Those "on his side" are irrelevant right now (as the midterms just fully demonstrated), let alone once the full extent of every detail of every crime he has committed--and we know there are at least dozens of them--have been shown over and over and over again on every news station (including Fox) with mind-numbing bombardment.

Again, you are standing at the base of Mt. Everest looking up and thinking, "That's not such a big hill to climb." By the time you reach the summit, however you will have eaten two of your best friends and left three others where they froze to death on the way up.

Iow, the massive amount of shit that is about to rain down upon Trump will be so massive that no one--except the irrelevant die hard 5%--will ever have anything to do with him again. And that's IF he accepts the backroom deal he's being given right now (or thereabouts). If he doesn't, the amount of shit that will rain down can't be measured.

Once again, the Mueller investigation is still going because Republicans are allowing it. Which means the military and the entire intelligence community wants it too.

You don't piss off the military, the intelligence community, and Republicans and survive no matter who you are. And Trump ain't nobody now that his voting power is gone. So unless he resigns, he's going to be the focus of so much payback it won't be funny or pretty or anything that anyone BUT a rabid 5% of total fucking nazi-morons could ever casually dismiss.
 
Iow, the massive amount of shit that is about to rain down upon Trump will be so massive that no one--except the irrelevant die hard 5%--will ever have anything to do with him again. And that's IF he accepts the backroom deal he's being given right now (or thereabouts). If he doesn't, the amount of shit that will rain down can't be measured.

I wish I could feel as certain as you that justice will prevail. I hope so, but I've already been appalled at what the GOP will swallow when I thought they surely wouldn't.


My neighbor 4 doors down has two "Trump / Pence" election signs still at the end of his driveway, carefully landscaped and dusted and polished. He is so proud of his support of a treasonous, lying cheating dementia-ridden bully. Just can't love him enough. After every rainstorm, every snow storm, whenever there is dust from the road - he's out there cleaning up his shrine.
 
Iow, the massive amount of shit that is about to rain down upon Trump will be so massive that no one--except the irrelevant die hard 5%--will ever have anything to do with him again. And that's IF he accepts the backroom deal he's being given right now (or thereabouts). If he doesn't, the amount of shit that will rain down can't be measured.

I wish I could feel as certain as you that justice will prevail. I hope so, but I've already been appalled at what the GOP will swallow when I thought they surely wouldn't.


My neighbor 4 doors down has two "Trump / Pence" election signs still at the end of his driveway, carefully landscaped and dusted and polished. He is so proud of his support of a treasonous, lying cheating dementia-ridden bully. Just can't love him enough. After every rainstorm, every snow storm, whenever there is dust from the road - he's out there cleaning up his shrine.

Wow. Around here you have thirty days to remove election materials or the city removes it for you and charges you for it.
 
Iow, the massive amount of shit that is about to rain down upon Trump will be so massive that no one--except the irrelevant die hard 5%--will ever have anything to do with him again. And that's IF he accepts the backroom deal he's being given right now (or thereabouts). If he doesn't, the amount of shit that will rain down can't be measured.

I wish I could feel as certain as you that justice will prevail. I hope so, but I've already been appalled at what the GOP will swallow when I thought they surely wouldn't.

My neighbor 4 doors down has two "Trump / Pence" election signs still at the end of his driveway, carefully landscaped and dusted and polished. He is so proud of his support of a treasonous, lying cheating dementia-ridden bully. Just can't love him enough. After every rainstorm, every snow storm, whenever there is dust from the road - he's out there cleaning up his shrine.

Well, they would no doubt fall among the smaller percentage of die-hards. Though, again this is all before the shit storm, which has only just begun. Your neighbors are still at the base of Mt. Everest looking up thinking, "This will be an easy climb."

Iow, the mountain will beat your neighbors into submission to it, not the other way around. And if at the end of the climb your neighbors still say, "That was easy, even when we had to eat two of our team" then all they will have proved is that they're among the 5% die-hard delusional idiots/liars.
 
Again, you are standing at the base of Mt. Everest looking up and thinking, "That's not such a big hill to climb." By the time you reach the summit, however you will have eaten two of your best friends and left three others where they froze to death on the way up.

Well, from the base camp to the top is an overnight for most people but not that bad. The problem isn't the size, the problem is the altitude.

- - - Updated - - -

My neighbor 4 doors down has two "Trump / Pence" election signs still at the end of his driveway, carefully landscaped and dusted and polished. He is so proud of his support of a treasonous, lying cheating dementia-ridden bully. Just can't love him enough. After every rainstorm, every snow storm, whenever there is dust from the road - he's out there cleaning up his shrine.

Sounds like time for a ninja suit and a can of silly string!
 
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