laughing dog
Contributor
You seem to follow the BLM and "other militant black groups". So, you must be a closest BLM sympathizer using your reasoning.
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Two Dallas Police Officers Shot After Downtown Rally
- Thread starter RavenSky
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Derec
Contributor
This is fallacy of equivocation. You are deliberately using "following" is a different sense than I was using it.
Tristan Scott
Senior Member
Go ahead and rationalize bigotry any way you want.
Bigotry doesn't shock me, I find it to be pathetic and weak.
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laughing dog
Contributor
You don't know why this shooter was "following" BLM and "other militant black groups", so you have little basis for your response other than yet another pathetic attempt to fool someone else. And you failed again.
SimpleDon
Veteran Member
The rich and powerful have always used racism, and the frankly insane idea that people are fundamentally different because of the meaningless concept of race, to divide the poor against one another.
This explains the confusion of conservatives. But even the less confused people here and in society, the liberals, are also falling into the same trap of blaming people along racial lines. It is not a racial problem. It is not a civil rights problem. It is a problem of poverty and the lack of opportunities for the poor in this, the wealthiest country in the world.
And this is what terrifies the rich, that the country will stop arguing about race and and come together to solve the real problem, the one of widespread poverty and people who correctly believe that they aren't being provided with a reasonable reward for the disproportionately hard work that they do.
Many of the rich know that poverty isn't a problem that is caused by the failings of the poor themselves, but is a simple economic problem of the distribution of income in the economy. A distribution of income that currently favors the rich, but only after decades of lobbying and the soft bribery of politicians by the rich to change the policies of the government to produce the income inequality that favors them. They wouldn't have financed these things if they hadn't realized that the kind of income distribution that we have is a choice, not a "natural" result of our economy.
And it is simple to start the elimination of poverty. We need to rollback the policies that have had so much to do with the large income inequality that we have now. But we can't even start until we stop blaming race.
This explains the confusion of conservatives. But even the less confused people here and in society, the liberals, are also falling into the same trap of blaming people along racial lines. It is not a racial problem. It is not a civil rights problem. It is a problem of poverty and the lack of opportunities for the poor in this, the wealthiest country in the world.
And this is what terrifies the rich, that the country will stop arguing about race and and come together to solve the real problem, the one of widespread poverty and people who correctly believe that they aren't being provided with a reasonable reward for the disproportionately hard work that they do.
Many of the rich know that poverty isn't a problem that is caused by the failings of the poor themselves, but is a simple economic problem of the distribution of income in the economy. A distribution of income that currently favors the rich, but only after decades of lobbying and the soft bribery of politicians by the rich to change the policies of the government to produce the income inequality that favors them. They wouldn't have financed these things if they hadn't realized that the kind of income distribution that we have is a choice, not a "natural" result of our economy.
And it is simple to start the elimination of poverty. We need to rollback the policies that have had so much to do with the large income inequality that we have now. But we can't even start until we stop blaming race.
Horatio Parker
Veteran Member
You've just insulted a significant subset of working class whites and sent them to Trump.
Or so I'm told...
blastula
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prideandfall
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yes, but a big part of that poverty problem is a race problem.
poverty itself isn't a race problem obviously, nor is it universally applicable to race in the instances where it overlaps, but the fact is that white people didn't spend 300 years in this country as farm equipment, white people weren't legally discriminated against for another 100 years after that, white people didn't require the civil rights act before they were universally seen as people from a legal standpoint, and white people aren't as a race still dealing with the social, culturally, legal, and evolutionary consequences of these facts.
poverty exists across all races, but it has a broader impact on some races than others.
Derec
Contributor
Well most claims are just that. I gave you one rare instance where it actually applies.
Godless Raven
Member
Really? We don't know why? I mean we don't know 100% for sure, but I think it's far likelier that we all pretty much know why than it's some other bizarre explanation.
What is really interesting about this thread is watching how the same people that can't get over Derec refusing to admit when he's wrong react when he's pretty much right. This appears to be one of the idiots that make up a percentage of BLM's type groups that are more militant. And he clearly wasn't alone in his thinking. And he was very violent and extreme in how he wanted to get across his dissatisfaction with police violence towards blacks. So quit trying to act like this doesn't happen on "the left". We expect them to own up to some fucktard that shoots up an abortion clinic because he's part of the group that yell rabid attacks at the people that work there and those that go for abortions. He's just a little more extreme.
Derec posted a video of the BLM protesters cheering for more cops to die. Not one of you fuckers owned up to what that means about those BLM protesters and whether or not the shooters were directly involved with BLM's is not the bigger point here...it is how the BLM protesters chose to associate themselves with the shooter that really matters...now isn't it? And it appears they happily did join in like any other dumb fucking group that's all riled up and they see someone do something they've been wishing they could do...they join in cheering for it. How fucking despicable all of those that were cheering are. How morally bankrupt. Fuck all of them, whatever color they are, whatever sex they are, whatever the fuck they are...fuck them.
Are any of you going to own up to these nuts or does it only work that way when groups we disagree with have this happen?
It doesn't mean BLM is violent or that all of the people involved in BLM wish for innocent police to die in some sort of sick revenge fantasy. It means a group loud enough to cheer in that video (maybe 50-100?) at the very least do. That should be enough to acknowledge that it's a problem with BLM's. If those who support BLM's do not shame and point out the extremists and disavow them (vs chant along with their actions) then how are they different than all of those morally bankrupt people that did and said nothing about terrorism or genocides et al? It's no different than when muslim groups refuse to acknowledge radicals in their religion or when christians refuse to disavow themselves from the abortion doctor murderer among their flock.
How many of you are disgusted by those chants rooting for more police deaths? I find it hard to believe anyone could have watched that and not been sick, but then again, I find a lot of things hard to believe
Maybe I missed all the replies saying you were because I was scrolling too fast.
Don2 (Don1 Revised)
Contributor
A distinction without a relevant difference.
laughing dog
Contributor
WTF? NPR is reporting that according to a manifesto allegedly posted by the shooter, he said he was not affliated with any group, that he acted alone and that he was tired of seeing his brothers and sisters killed by the police. It is possible that this manifesto is a fake or a lie. Or it is valid and you or someone needs to make cogent and fact-based argument that he is a BLM sympathizer and that his BLM sympathies drove him to this atrocity without resorting to your usual moral indignation driven bullshit.
The rest of your post is an agglomeration of straw men (one example - the claim we are making this doesn't happen on the left) and double standards (I don't see you decrying every atrocity) which do not merit replies.
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Sea of red
Member
What's so interesting about this post is it's raging double standard.
Really? We don't know why? I mean we don't know 100% for sure, but I think it's far likelier that we all pretty much know why than it's some other bizarre explanation.
What is really interesting about this thread is watching how the same people that can't get over Derec refusing to admit when he's wrong react when he's pretty much right. This appears to be one of the idiots that make up a percentage of BLM's type groups that are more militant. And he clearly wasn't alone in his thinking. And he was very violent and extreme in how he wanted to get across his dissatisfaction with police violence towards blacks. So quit trying to act like this doesn't happen on "the left". We expect them to own up to some fucktard that shoots up an abortion clinic because he's part of the group that yell rabid attacks at the people that work there and those that go for abortions. He's just a little more extreme.
Derec posted a video of the BLM protesters cheering for more cops to die. Not one of you fuckers owned up to what that means about those BLM protesters and whether or not the shooters were directly involved with BLM's is not the bigger point here...it is how the BLM protesters chose to associate themselves with the shooter that really matters...now isn't it? And it appears they happily did join in like any other dumb fucking group that's all riled up and they see someone do something they've been wishing they could do...they join in cheering for it. How fucking despicable all of those that were cheering are. How morally bankrupt. Fuck all of them, whatever color they are, whatever sex they are, whatever the fuck they are...fuck them.
Are any of you going to own up to these nuts or does it only work that way when groups we disagree with have this happen?
It doesn't mean BLM is violent or that all of the people involved in BLM wish for innocent police to die in some sort of sick revenge fantasy. It means a group loud enough to cheer in that video (maybe 50-100?) at the very least do. That should be enough to acknowledge that it's a problem with BLM's. If those who support BLM's do not shame and point out the extremists and disavow them (vs chant along with their actions) then how are they different than all of those morally bankrupt people that did and said nothing about terrorism or genocides et al? It's no different than when muslim groups refuse to acknowledge radicals in their religion or when christians refuse to disavow themselves from the abortion doctor murderer among their flock.
How many of you are disgusted by those chants rooting for more police deaths? I find it hard to believe anyone could have watched that and not been sick, but then again, I find a lot of things hard to believe
Police apologists always say "don't judge all cops by a few bad apples!" and how there can't possibly be a culture within the police departments of America that enables bad behavior. Yet, whenever there is a protest or criticism of police conduct, cop apologists have no issue with broad brushing an entire group of people, simple for using there right to express their anger towards injustice
Want some truth? Here's a hard fucking reality: this shit was a long time coming. While I do not condone the murder of these policemen, it's a cold truth that police misconduct has been out of control for the past decade or so, and there has been an unwillingness and fear of local courts to hold police accountable for their crimes because of police union influence. To think that didn't contribute to what happened yesterday, or that it doesn't exist at all, is just naive.
Everyday, police violate peoples rights, use unacceptable violence towards citizens, kill people through gross negligence, and do some absolutely deplorable things in their line of work. We've all seen it - some of us have had people close to us effected by it. A lot of this shit has been captured on camera and tells stories that show a culture within police departments that is out of control. But that doesn't seem to stop people from making excuses, and it certainly doesn't stop some people from living in denial that the problems within our police force, do not come down to a 'few bad apples'.
The difference between protestors and the cop apologists is, the vast majority of them will not make a single excuse for this mans actions. Any other people involved will not be obstructed from facing justice by those critical of american police. They don't have that kind of influence in the justice system. While the protection of rogue cops will continue, and they will continue to walk free every single time they are caught, no matter how damning the evidence, and THAT is a problem.
DA's, prosecutors, judges, and politicians know what's going on - they see it too. But they are afraid of the police unions interfering with their careers, so they look the other way. This level of immunity and lack of accountability has led to people getting fed up. They feel like they have no way power anymore. So they took to the streets once again, and after hundreds of protests around the country for three years, ONE person killed somebody. It is not a systemic problem with the BLM protests or any other protests - no matter how badly you might want it to be for your narrative.
I'm not saying that rhetoric didn't influence this guys actions. No doubt people not to be more responsible with their words. But at the end of the day, ONE person is responsible for this tragedy, and others are not responsible for the choices he made last night.
#BLM has some sort of membership approval process??
This was a guy who actually did what a lot of BLMers have called for.
And now I'm going to shock many on here: As far as I'm concerned the police murdered one of the snipers. He was corralled and not in a position to threaten anyone. Going in to get him would have been very dangerous but they could have waited him out, there was no need to bomb him.
Given the range I think a hunting rifle is more likely.
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I think terrorist qualifies here--the shootings were for a political reason.
Sea of red
Member
RavenSky
The Doctor's Wife
He said he was not part of their group. HE said it. Are you going to insist otherwise?
Left unsaid so far is that many of these "other militant black groups" are in fact extremely critical of Black Lves Matter. Unlike some people here, they actually listen to what most major protest groups and organizers say about nonviolence. And the actual militants are sickened by their calls for nonviolence, seeing it as "cowardly" or "pussy". Instead, they promote self-defensive violent sat best, or outright aggressive violence at worst.
And really, they see all the howling about how vicious and horrible Black Lives Matter is as proof that white people, me masse, see black people as monsters even when they're begging for peace.
And really, they see all the howling about how vicious and horrible Black Lives Matter is as proof that white people, me masse, see black people as monsters even when they're begging for peace.
RavenSky
The Doctor's Wife
well look who finally reared his ugly old head:
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/nr...ilent-on-philando-castile-and-alton-sterling/
https://www.rawstory.com/2016/07/nr...ilent-on-philando-castile-and-alton-sterling/