UK Police Confirm Multiple Fatalities at an Ariana Grande Concert in Manchester

[DrZoidberg]

Religion is essentially a political ideology. Thus, a far closer analogy is "Should members of the Nazi party have felt guilty over the actions of Hitler and other Nazis, even if they personally did not agree with those actions?" Or, should registered Republicans who voted to give control of Congress to the GOP and who donate to the GOP and thus empower it to do what it wants, feel responsibility for the harm a GOP policy cause others, even when they don't agree with that specific GOP policy?

That's false. Sure, Islam, if all Muslims followed the Quran it would be a political ideology. But most Muslims, like most Christians, only pay lip-service to their holy text. They cherry pick like crazy. Nazis don't typically.

No, I don't think it makes sense, and I think nearly all Muslims are hypocrites, and are childish, since they are adults with invisible friends. But I don't live in fear because I have a Muslim neighbour. They're fine. Being a suicide bomber is not normal for a Muslim. Suicide attacks is a rare event. Even in the Muslim world. So there's obviously more going on here.

And again... Europe had loads of terrorist attacks most of the 20'th century, most of which were not committed by Muslims. If Islam makes people violent terrorists, then why haven't we seen even more of it? Isn't it more likely that the Middle-East is a politically unstable region, and we're likely to see more terrorism perpetrated by people living in a politically unstable region? If that population is mostly Muslims, then most terrorists will be Muslim. Correlation does not imply causation.

The problem with simplistic models of explanation is that we end up trying to fix the wrong thing and fail at fixing the core issue?

 

[Jayjay]

Yet millions have no issue living peacefully.

Beliefs and values are THE cause of human action. Skin tone is not. So, when someone acts in an irrationally intolerant way and says it is due to their core beliefs that are at their logical base irrational and intolerant, then others who either do or pretend to share the set of core beliefs should feel guilty. If they don't endorse those actions, then they should (most of them for the first time in their life) honestly re-evaluate their claimed core beliefs for what they logically presume and thus inherently promote and decide whether they should keep endorsing those beliefs by adopting the labels and ritual dressings those beliefs gave rise to.

Why should people that live peaceful lives have to recant a religion because a minority of those that share said religion are extremist nuts? Why are they held to such a standard of the actions of other people? Millions of Muslims live in the US productively and peacefully.

Religion is essentially a political ideology. Thus, a far closer analogy is "Should members of the Nazi party have felt guilty over the actions of Hitler and other Nazis, even if they personally did not agree with those actions?"

Godwin Error... Divide by 0 error...

All the Nazis deserved much worse than they got, because they were all committed to very nasty racism. Muslims are not committed to terrorism: it is a product of Saudi heresy.

One man's heresy is another man's holy writ. And not all nazis were committed to a "very nasty racism", some of them were just regular Germans who chose to look the other way, not unlike your average muslim.

In general, trying to exclude terrorists because they were not "true muslims" is just a tired old rehashing of the No True Scotsman Fallacy. To say that they are "pretend muslims" is just silly... when it comes to religion, it's all pretend. Every muslim has just as stupid reasons to follow that dumbass religion, and just because some of them may commit horrible acts of cruelty because of whatever crackpot beliefs they may have ended up, doesn't mean that his beliefs are any more crackpot than the next guy's.

 

[Elixir]

View attachment 11178

To clarify we still don't know who did this.

Thanks for clarifying.



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I figure Trump did it to distract from his collusion with the Russians.

 

[repoman]

I think that there is a lot of soft sedition in the Quran as it is. Sharia and non muslim tax are an alternate form of government. I think that arresting severely seditious imams even if they are only reading from the Quran and Hadiths is one answer.

There should be only one big dog, that is the nation they are residing in.

Christianity was already domesticated to the "state" since it came about in a different way.

This is about asserting dominance. You have to start early and aggressively.

A seditious pastor should also be arrested. Steven Anderson is not far away from this for example in terms of violent rhetoric. Pretty dangerous guy. If there is a bombing of a gay nightclub or parade I would not be surprised if one of his viewers was involved.

 

[whichphilosophy]

To clarify we still don't know who did this.

Thanks for clarifying.

View attachment 11182

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I figure Trump did it to distract from his collusion with the Russians.

Is that Alternative fake news?

 

[bilby]

CNN reporting now that ISIS has claimed responsibility but no real evidence that they actually did it yet.

It must be harrowing to be a Muslim and hear about an event like this. The first thought must be to hope it isn't a Muslim, knowing that it probably is. It is like a never-ending PR disaster.

How responsible did you feel when Dylan Roof murdered the people in the church?

More to the point, how responsible did your neighbours and coworkers feel you might be, when Dylan Roof murdered the people in the church?

The fear of Muslims that this shit engenders is just stupid. Whoever committed this crime, I'm reasonably certain that it wasn't carried out by a billion people.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Thanks for clarifying.

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I figure Trump did it to distract from his collusion with the Russians.

Is that Alternative fake news?

Someone needs to bump the server again.

 

[bilby]

View attachment 11180

Higgins Law - The value of arguments via jpeg memes is proportional to the fraction of 0 divided by the number of images used, times the number of words in the meme.

Bilby's Law - the number of images used in an Internet discussion is inversely proportional to the value of the arguments being expressed.

The use of images, rather than words, usually implies a very simplistic approach to any topic; in the same way, and for the exact same reason, that books for under fives contain lots of pictures and few words, while books for adults are almost all words, with few pictures.

See spot run. Run, Spot, run!

Spot may well be running; but even if he were, we are not going to learn the biomechanics of canine locomotion from a kindergarten text. And if one were to attend a lecture on that subject, one would feel rather sorry for any classmate who introduced 'Run, Spot, run' as a supporting text, in the sincere belief that he was helping.

Memes are the Ralph Wiggum contribution to discussion.

 

[bilby]

It's time to deport all the theists. Theists subscribe to a violent and insane ideology. Why do they never speak out against violence?

It's not about skin colour; theism is a choice.

There are no moderate theists.

I saw a person in the supermarket who looked to me like a theist, and I can tell you, that scared me.

It's not racism or theophobia; it's common sense to be frightened of theists. Their Holy Books tell them to kill everyone else. At the very least, theists shouldn't be allowed to board aircraft, at least until we find out exactly what's happening.

All theists are terrorists.

 

[repoman]

you are finally making sense Biliby

 

[bilby]

If we are going to blame Muslims for extreme Wahhibism, then we might just as well blame theists for extreme Wahhibism, while we are in the business of broad-brush stupidity.

Or humanity. All humans have irrational beliefs; so they are all potential terrorists. And just as guilty as the actual terrorists - I have NEVER seen a spokesperson for humanity speaking out against violence. What are these humans trying to hide?

There's no such thing as a moderate human. Just look at their books!

And I certainly wouldn't want my daughter to marry one.

 

[whichphilosophy]

To clarify we still don't know who did this. Let's see what happens. Muslims don't do such things. Just one or two do.

Well, good, if Muslims don't do these things we won't have to endure the usual stream of Muslim apologism we get in the wake of Muslims doing these things this time.

This seems to have been a Muslim. Muslims as a whole are not bombers. One or two are.

 

[Elixir]

Muslims as a whole are not bombers.

 

[TSwizzle]

Another terror attack in Britain may be imminent.

Troops are to be deployed onto Britain's streets amid fears a further terror attack 'may be imminent'.
Theresa May announced the move this evening, less than 24 hours after the bomb attack at a teen concert in Manchester, which left 22 dead and 59 injured. The Prime Minister confirmed the identity of the Manchester suicide bomber as 22-year-old British Libyan Salman Abedi.(The suicide bomber Abedi, a Mancunian of Libyan descent, was the son of an airport security worker)
But intelligence agencies fear he may not have acted alone - leaving open the possibility of an active Islamist terror cell on the loose.
Britain's Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre last night raised the terror threat level to 'critical', its highest level.
The threat level has only been raised to 'critical' twice since the system was introduced in August 1, 2006.

DailyMail

I wonder what the other two incident were that had the system upped to critical.

 

[repoman]

Has Coulter met with Katie Hopkins? Harridan Hoedown.

At any rate, I have unironically watched about 20 of Duke's youtube videos. He's cool.

 

[bilby]

Another terror attack in Britain may be imminent.

Troops are to be deployed onto Britain's streets amid fears a further terror attack 'may be imminent'.
Theresa May announced the move this evening, less than 24 hours after the bomb attack at a teen concert in Manchester, which left 22 dead and 59 injured. The Prime Minister confirmed the identity of the Manchester suicide bomber as 22-year-old British Libyan Salman Abedi.(The suicide bomber Abedi, a Mancunian of Libyan descent, was the son of an airport security worker)
But intelligence agencies fear he may not have acted alone - leaving open the possibility of an active Islamist terror cell on the loose.
Britain's Joint Terrorism Analysis Centre last night raised the terror threat level to 'critical', its highest level.
The threat level has only been raised to 'critical' twice since the system was introduced in August 1, 2006.

DailyMail

I wonder what the other two incident were that had the system upped to critical.

Impending elections?

Really, you need to stop looking at the Daily Mail; it's rotting your brain.

The Mail is doing a much better job of terrifying the English people than anyone with a bomb ever has.

And even you can recognise crap reporting here - the article left you with an unanswered but obvious question. That's not journalism, it's either incompetence or disingenuity.

 

[dismal]

Well, good, if Muslims don't do these things we won't have to endure the usual stream of Muslim apologism we get in the wake of Muslims doing these things this time.

This seems to have been a Muslim. Muslims as a whole are not bombers. One or two are.

Well sure, if all Muslims had strapped bombs to themselves and blown themselves up the religion of Islam would no longer exist, and Muslim apologetics would no longer be necessary.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Muslims as a whole are not bombers.

View attachment 11184

To us it is obvious but to some one Muslim is all Muslims
I see you were in the Navy

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This seems to have been a Muslim. Muslims as a whole are not bombers. One or two are.

Well sure, if all Muslims had strapped bombs to themselves and blown themselves up the religion of Islam would no longer exist, and Muslim apologetics would no longer be necessary.

Not everyone realises that.

 

[Elixir]

I see you were in the Navy

No you don't.

"It's not what we don't know that gets us in trouble. I the things that we know that just ain't so."

-Mark Twain (ish)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

View attachment 11180

The Swedish attacker wasn't. It turned out that he'd been lying to his wife and family about how super he was doing in Sweden. He just couldn't bear the embarrassement of it if he went home. So he tried to kill himself by committing a terrorrist attack. As if that somehow would mask his shame. Which it of couse didn't. It's hard to see how Islam entered into that one. He only became militant a month before the attack. And the attack itself must have taken at least that long to plan. It's most likely that he first thought of suicide, and afterwards thought of the way to kill himself.

Anyhoo... lets wait to see if this one is similar before we blame anything in particular.

Not exactly uncommon--most of the suicide attacks are people who are failures. Terrorism provides them with a socially laudable means of suicide. If there wasn't the Islamist terrorist movement they wouldn't take that path.