Undocumented Immigrants are paying into social security?

[RVonse]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

 

[Bronzeage]

Before someone is hired, a SS# has to be on file. Once that number is filed, the employer has to deduct and then remit deductions. The same goes for any Federal and state taxes or unemployment benefit taxes.

Failure to do this is a crime in itself, and possibly an acknowlegment that the worker had presented illegal documents.

Don't expect to see any crackdown on employers because of undocumented workers. That's not the way it works. Our immigrant worker laws are written to accommodate "plausible deniability" for the employer. The only time we're likely to see an employer arrested is when real slave conditions are discovered. In this case, regular law enforcement will be on the scene, not Federal immigration.

 

[RVonse]

Before someone is hired, a SS# has to be on file. Once that number is filed, the employer has to deduct and then remit deductions. The same goes for any Federal and state taxes or unemployment benefit taxes.

Failure to do this is a crime in itself, and possibly an acknowlegment that the worker had presented illegal documents.

Don't expect to see any crackdown on employers because of undocumented workers. That's not the way it works. Our immigrant worker laws are written to accommodate "plausible deniability" for the employer. The only time we're likely to see an employer arrested is when real slave conditions are discovered. In this case, regular law enforcement will be on the scene, not Federal immigration.

It really is a shame.

If the Democrats want to win the next big election, I'm thinking they would do well to go after this in a big way. They obviously won't because they are nearly now servants to the same business interests as the Republicans always have been. But other than that, I believe it would win a lot of support from people (like myself) who feel the Democrat party has completely abandoned them. Just my opinion, but if the Democrats stood up to this as they should, they could credibly convey a belief that they actually represent middle class and common interests.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

We haven't managed to meaningfully address identity theft. This is simply a form of identity theft. Until we come up with a good way of stopping identity theft we should not be trying hard to address illegals this way as it will harm innocents while doing little about the illegals. If you could actually stop illegals from working it might be a good idea but in reality it comes down to them working with documents the IRS will realize are fake or working with documents the IRS will think belong to a legitimate taxpayer and will try to get the tax from the innocent taxpayer. My mother went through that--"you failed to report this income from XYZ corp." "I was not working anywhere, let alone for XYZ corp." "If the tax form is wrong contact your employer and get it fixed." "I never worked for them, I don't know who they are and I can't even find them. Please provide me contact information." "We are not allowed to provide that information. Contact your employer and get it fixed."

 

[RVonse]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

We haven't managed to meaningfully address identity theft. This is simply a form of identity theft. Until we come up with a good way of stopping identity theft we should not be trying hard to address illegals this way as it will harm innocents while doing little about the illegals. If you could actually stop illegals from working it might be a good idea but in reality it comes down to them working with documents the IRS will realize are fake or working with documents the IRS will think belong to a legitimate taxpayer and will try to get the tax from the innocent taxpayer. My mother went through that--"you failed to report this income from XYZ corp." "I was not working anywhere, let alone for XYZ corp." "If the tax form is wrong contact your employer and get it fixed." "I never worked for them, I don't know who they are and I can't even find them. Please provide me contact information." "We are not allowed to provide that information. Contact your employer and get it fixed."

I havent personally had any issues with identity theft yet thank goodness. But I have heard a lot of advertisements on the radio regarding companies that can protect you from this.

Which then begs the question. If the private sector has the tevhnology to secure data (for a charge), why does not the government or corporations have access to these same technologies?

 

[fast]

Background checks.

 

[dismal]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

I don;t doubt there are some "undocumented" immigrants paying into Social Security but this is only half the question. If they are also taking out of Social Security them paying in doesn't help, it hurts.

The way you accrue SS benefits is by paying in, and the average person only covers 80% of their own social security benefits with what they pay in.

 

[Bronzeage]

Before someone is hired, a SS# has to be on file. Once that number is filed, the employer has to deduct and then remit deductions. The same goes for any Federal and state taxes or unemployment benefit taxes.

Failure to do this is a crime in itself, and possibly an acknowlegment that the worker had presented illegal documents.

Don't expect to see any crackdown on employers because of undocumented workers. That's not the way it works. Our immigrant worker laws are written to accommodate "plausible deniability" for the employer. The only time we're likely to see an employer arrested is when real slave conditions are discovered. In this case, regular law enforcement will be on the scene, not Federal immigration.

It really is a shame.

If the Democrats want to win the next big election, I'm thinking they would do well to go after this in a big way. They obviously won't because they are nearly now servants to the same business interests as the Republicans always have been. But other than that, I believe it would win a lot of support from people (like myself) who feel the Democrat party has completely abandoned them. Just my opinion, but if the Democrats stood up to this as they should, they could credibly convey a belief that they actually represent middle class and common interests.

What exactly is the middle class and common interest here? If someone picks tomatoes all day and the tomatoes in my local store arrive fresh and not bruised, what's my objection to having another taxpayer on the roles?

 

[RVonse]

Before someone is hired, a SS# has to be on file. Once that number is filed, the employer has to deduct and then remit deductions. The same goes for any Federal and state taxes or unemployment benefit taxes.

Failure to do this is a crime in itself, and possibly an acknowlegment that the worker had presented illegal documents.

Don't expect to see any crackdown on employers because of undocumented workers. That's not the way it works. Our immigrant worker laws are written to accommodate "plausible deniability" for the employer. The only time we're likely to see an employer arrested is when real slave conditions are discovered. In this case, regular law enforcement will be on the scene, not Federal immigration.

It really is a shame.

If the Democrats want to win the next big election, I'm thinking they would do well to go after this in a big way. They obviously won't because they are nearly now servants to the same business interests as the Republicans always have been. But other than that, I believe it would win a lot of support from people (like myself) who feel the Democrat party has completely abandoned them. Just my opinion, but if the Democrats stood up to this as they should, they could credibly convey a belief that they actually represent middle class and common interests.

What exactly is the middle class and common interest here? If someone picks tomatoes all day and the tomatoes in my local store arrive fresh and not bruised, what's my objection to having another taxpayer on the roles?

Your objection should be that someone who is even poorer than you is being exploited by corporate farming. That the current laws are being broken and that those who know better are just looking the other way because some politician received bribe money.

Personally, I believe cheap labor is seriously penny wise and pound foolish and taking the country directly into 3rd world status. But even if you think cheap labor is good for America, then at least change the laws and enforce them without corruption.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

We haven't managed to meaningfully address identity theft. This is simply a form of identity theft. Until we come up with a good way of stopping identity theft we should not be trying hard to address illegals this way as it will harm innocents while doing little about the illegals. If you could actually stop illegals from working it might be a good idea but in reality it comes down to them working with documents the IRS will realize are fake or working with documents the IRS will think belong to a legitimate taxpayer and will try to get the tax from the innocent taxpayer. My mother went through that--"you failed to report this income from XYZ corp." "I was not working anywhere, let alone for XYZ corp." "If the tax form is wrong contact your employer and get it fixed." "I never worked for them, I don't know who they are and I can't even find them. Please provide me contact information." "We are not allowed to provide that information. Contact your employer and get it fixed."

I havent personally had any issues with identity theft yet thank goodness. But I have heard a lot of advertisements on the radio regarding companies that can protect you from this.

Which then begs the question. If the private sector has the tevhnology to secure data (for a charge), why does not the government or corporations have access to these same technologies?

Those companies do nothing to protect your data. The services they offer are about alerting you to the use of your data (note that you can get pretty much this service for free) and helping you deal with the hassles that result.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

I don;t doubt there are some "undocumented" immigrants paying into Social Security but this is only half the question. If they are also taking out of Social Security them paying in doesn't help, it hurts.

The way you accrue SS benefits is by paying in, and the average person only covers 80% of their own social security benefits with what they pay in.

If they don't work for 10 years they get nothing back at all.

 

[SLD]

If they have fake SSAN's then the employer will deduct SS and remit it. It’s a small windfall for SSA every year. Most illegals though have fake green cards, not SSAN's. If you have green card, you don’t pay into SS, but you do pay taxes. And the employer doesn’t have to pay their contribution to SS either. That’s one reason to hire immigrants, legal or illegal. It’s also what the trump fucking supporters don’t get. They bitch and moan about illegal immigrants. Who gives a fuck about them. They come here because Americans are illegally hiring them. Half the time they’re helping them get their illegal green cards. They know damn well they aren’t legal. They use that fact to threaten them and keep them in line. Funk with those motherfuckers and illegal immigration would end in a heartbeat.

SLD

 

[Bronzeage]

What exactly is the middle class and common interest here? If someone picks tomatoes all day and the tomatoes in my local store arrive fresh and not bruised, what's my objection to having another taxpayer on the roles?

Your objection should be that someone who is even poorer than you is being exploited by corporate farming. That the current laws are being broken and that those who know better are just looking the other way because some politician received bribe money.

Personally, I believe cheap labor is seriously penny wise and pound foolish and taking the country directly into 3rd world status. But even if you think cheap labor is good for America, then at least change the laws and enforce them without corruption.

I'm not the least bit happy if someone is allowed to illegally exploit any worker and even more unhappy if they are doing in collusion with a government official.

I'm just wondering what you meant by "middle class and common interest", as well as why you feel abandoned by the Democratic Party.

 

[Ford]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

Here in Arizona we had an "employer sanctions law." Twice. The most famous one was part of the "papers please" law that was partially struck down, but there was language in the previous legislation that provided for prosecution of employers who hired illegals.

The number of businesses that have been actually fined/prosecuted under either? I think it stands at one. We also had a well-known Sheriff who conducted very public raids of businesses that hired illegals. The number of business owners/managers that wound up in zip ties on the curb waiting to be hauled away to jail? Zero.

There is simply little or no liability enforced for employers who hire illegals. Due diligence? Not enforced. Fines or penalties for hiring undocumented workers? Near zero.

Contrast that with hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants deported every year, and - if you think hard about it - you might understand what's at work here. Immigrants, migrant workers, etc. are held to account for the "crime" of crossing the border. Employers are not held to account for giving them a job.

 

[RVonse]

What exactly is the middle class and common interest here? If someone picks tomatoes all day and the tomatoes in my local store arrive fresh and not bruised, what's my objection to having another taxpayer on the roles?

Your objection should be that someone who is even poorer than you is being exploited by corporate farming. That the current laws are being broken and that those who know better are just looking the other way because some politician received bribe money.

Personally, I believe cheap labor is seriously penny wise and pound foolish and taking the country directly into 3rd world status. But even if you think cheap labor is good for America, then at least change the laws and enforce them without corruption.

I'm not the least bit happy if someone is allowed to illegally exploit any worker and even more unhappy if they are doing in collusion with a government official.

I'm just wondering what you meant by "middle class and common interest", as well as why you feel abandoned by the Democratic Party.

I consider the middle class the majority of the population that works for a living. If you live off passive income or the government you are probably not in that category.

Starting with Clinton and the NAFTA agreement, he Democrats have let labor down in a masive way.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

According to this article : https://www.fool.com/retirement/2019/02/07/undocumented-immigrants-and-social-security-separa.aspx

Apparently they are either paying tax on either someone else's social security number or a fake one.

As someone who is now approaching social security age, I should be happy about this but I'm not. It amounts to slavery for the illegal who should not even be here in the first place. Furthermore, someone at the employer level (probably purposely) is obviously NOT verifying credentials for whom they employ. These employers should be liable for not doing due diligence and fined heavily.

Trump says the law should be enforced at the border and I agree. But the law should also be enforced at the HR office too.

We haven't managed to meaningfully address identity theft.

This would actually be identity charity.

 

[Bronzeage]

I'm not the least bit happy if someone is allowed to illegally exploit any worker and even more unhappy if they are doing in collusion with a government official.

I'm just wondering what you meant by "middle class and common interest", as well as why you feel abandoned by the Democratic Party.

I consider the middle class the majority of the population that works for a living. If you live off passive income or the government you are probably not in that category.

Starting with Clinton and the NAFTA agreement, he Democrats have let labor down in a masive way.

How did the Nafta agreement affect you personally?

 

[Elixir]

Has anyone else here ever had to certify their compliant use of the e-verify system?
I understood from the shit I had to sign that if anyone was caught working for us illegally without having passed through the e-verify system, OUR COMPANY was liable.
If all the large employers are immune from prosecution, it must mean the law is written so that you can ignore it, but ONLY if you are big enough to have lots-o-lawyers already on retainer. Or were we particularly under scrutiny for being a Federal contractor?
(We only ever had two, so we didn't dare mess with what the law said on the face of it.)

 

[Bronzeage]

Has anyone else here ever had to certify their compliant use of the e-verify system?
I understood from the shit I had to sign that if anyone was caught working for us illegally without having passed through the e-verify system, OUR COMPANY was liable.
If all the large employers are immune from prosecution, it must mean the law is written so that you can ignore it, but ONLY if you are big enough to have lots-o-lawyers already on retainer. Or were we particularly under scrutiny for being a Federal contractor?
(We only ever had two, so we didn't dare mess with what the law said on the face of it.)

Suppose you hired a contractor to provide labor for your project. Who's responsible for those workers?

I'm sure there are penalties in all the statutes for not following procedures and hiring undocumented workers, but so far the net only seems to catch foreign citizens. In the past few months there have been well publicized raids on chicken processing plants across the country, which resulted in hundreds of arrests. As far as I can tell, no US citizens are among those arrested.

 

[atrib]

Most illegals though have fake green cards, not SSAN's.

Umm, citation? That doesn't sound right at all.

If you have green card, you don’t pay into SS, but you do pay taxes.

This is flat out wrong. Permanent residents pay SS just as citizens, and some classes of temporary workers do.

And the employer doesn’t have to pay their contribution to SS either.

Wrong again.

That’s one reason to hire immigrants, legal or illegal.

Your premises are false. Some people on temporary work visas, F-1 practical training, and in a few cases, where the US has a tax treaty with their country of origin, don't have to pay SS. All legal immigrants, i..e permanent residents of the US pay SS.

Half the time they’re helping them get their illegal green cards.

I suppose fake green cards exist. But in this day and age with electronic verification of employment eligibility, at ports of entry, at the DMV etc., they are not worth the plastic they are printed on.