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US President 2016 - the Great Horse Race

Jason Harvestdancer said:
Over and over in this forum I hear about elected Democrats that they don't represent their liberal base. Yet here you are telling me that said liberal base is ready to elect Hillary.

So ... explain that.
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1) Liberals are idiots.
2) See #1
3) She won't be terrible as President
4) If they pick someone else there's a small chance the GOP could win and that would be even worse
 
I guess that makes sense if you think conservatives are interchangeable.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
I disagree with three, and the fourth point is not a good enough of an excuse.

"Let's elect a conservative under our party banner, because otherwise a conservative might win."
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Because she's not anywhere near as conservative as any of the GOP people will be. From the point of view of a liberal, she will ignore their concerns most of the time, work against them some of the time, and maybe do something which they'd be kind of happy about every now and again. That's much better than someone who would actively work against what they'd want to happen pretty much all the time.

A Hillary Clinton presidency is not something that would be a step forward for liberal issues. It would not, however, be a huge step backwards.
 
Agree with Tom. If liberals vote for Hillary Clinton (and I've heard from plenty who have said they won't) it will only be because they are voting against the conservative.

Even Robert Heinlein said that that was a better alternative to not voting.

“If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and no measures you want to vote for ... but there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong.”
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What's with Trump and birther charges?

Is he trying to cover up the fact that he wasn't born on Earth?
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Over and over in this forum I hear about elected Democrats that they don't represent their liberal base. Yet here you are telling me that said liberal base is ready to elect Hillary.

So ... explain that.
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Prevent defense. There is no alternative. In addition, the most important part... SCOTUS. This is the largest long-term damage the right-wing can do. Add another Alito or Scalia to the bench? No way! Can't happen.

I don't think Clinton will be the nominee, so it won't matter in the end. Some other right-leaning moderate will get the nomination and be accused of being born in Mexico and will make America a state of Mexico.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Isn't there anyone the liberal base both supports AND would be willing to vote for?

You know you have a shitty candidate when the best supporting argument is the SCOTUS nominees.
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I cannot think of a single notable political person in your country whom I'd actually support for President. The best you seem to have to offer are those who would be less bad than the alternatives. Perhaps someone will come along but until then the best that can be done is limiting the damage.

How about on the right? Is there anyone that you support or is your attitude towards the potential GOP nominees kind of the "Well, at least they're not Hillary" type of enthusiam?
 
Axulus said:
If Cruz, Rand Paul, or Marco Rubio don't get elected (or even nominated), will that falsify the "1% control everything" hypothesis, since these are the three horses backed by the Koch fundraising network?
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So different billionaires squabbling over who's lapdog gets picked somehow proves that they aren't really in control? Factionalism is a symptom of any aristocratic government. (or really, any government at all.)
 
Tom Sawyer said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Isn't there anyone the liberal base both supports AND would be willing to vote for?

You know you have a shitty candidate when the best supporting argument is the SCOTUS nominees.
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I cannot think of a single notable political person in your country whom I'd actually support for President. The best you seem to have to offer are those who would be less bad than the alternatives. Perhaps someone will come along but until then the best that can be done is limiting the damage.

How about on the right? Is there anyone that you support or is your attitude towards the potential GOP nominees kind of the "Well, at least they're not Hillary" type of enthusiam?
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What makes you think I support Republicans?
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Isn't there anyone the liberal base both supports AND would be willing to vote for?
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Bernie Sanders.
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I'm often told that liberals aren't socialists and progressive aren't socialists. One of the big chuckles around here is when some conservative refers to a liberal or a progressive as a socialist.

Bernie Sanders self-describes as a socialist.

Something isn't connecting here.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
Bernie Sanders.
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I'm often told that liberals aren't socialists and progressive aren't socialists. One of the big chuckles around here is when some conservative refers to a liberal or a progressive as a socialist.

Bernie Sanders self-describes as a socialist.

Something isn't connecting here.
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Just to ease your angst let's replace Bernie with Jerry. He's younger than Bernie, he's a very successful administrator of the most populous state in the US and he dated Linda Ronstadt to boot. He's a progressive BTW.
 
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