• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

US student loans grotesquely high


Moreover, public universities are much more expensive compared with when I was young because state governments have dramatically pulled back in their financial support of universities, colleges and tech schools, leaving young people not old enough to purchase alcohol to incur debt they have no meaningful experience with which to understand the implications.

It’s simply wrong from a moral standpoint and wrong frim an economic stand point.
Perhaps you Yanks should restrict uni entry to those who are old enough to buy grog?

If your claim that young people are incurring a debt they have no meaningful experience with which to understand the implications is indeed true then that is a sad indictment on your education system. Perhaps spend a little time teaching children about loans, debt, its implications etc.? I sure that are many items in your education system that could be removed or lessened to make free such time.
I think that no matter how much information and knowledge an 18 year old is able to comprehend, real life consequences and bast sums of money are still kind of like fairy takes. 18 year olds who have, at most, managed to help buy a very dilapidated very used car, don’t truly understand how much it costs to pay rent in a very modest apartment, buy groceries, put gas in the car and pay car insurance and repairs when they come up compared with how much they are likely to be able to earn when they get their first ‘real’ grown up job. It’s too far out of the experience of almost any 18 year old. I gave the example up thread of one of my kids who was furious that I refused to agree to them attending a college that would require a student debt load of at least $100K. ( they did go to that uni—because we negotiated the price down and the assistance up do that it was on par with a state school). The thing is, that kid was always very good with their spending money, worked part time as soon as we’d agree to it and banked almost all of their earnings. And STILL can pinch a penny harder than anyone I know, aside from their sibling and my parents grew up during the Grest Depression! They are extremely intelligent, and deeply practical. But at that age, completely lacked any real context for vast sums of money.

Frankly my kids were really lucky because we believed it was our job as parents to pay for university, we set a realistic budget that we could afford and made it clear that if they wanted to attend private schools, that meant student loans and still we insisted that the loans be very small. A lot of kids, especially those who are the first in their families to attend university, do not have families with enough financial literacy to provide good advice or enough discretionary income to be of substantial financial help. Those are the kids who were really preyed upon by some lenders.

And—there are the parents ( I know some) who actively encourage their kids to take out loans for as much as they can, instead of cautioning them to live very frugally, study hard, spend as little as possible. And some who think that it really is t harder due their kids than it was for their parents. In terms of money: it’s much, much, much harder today —and for the past 25-30 years! compared with how it was for me. I had a couple of scholarships that payed almost everything. The rest I paid for with summer jobs. That’s not possible today. I only got the larger scholarship because my father’s employer offered them to high achieving students.

The real need is to increase state support for public universities to the same degree as they supported public universities in the early 70’s or better, when one could reasonably afford university if one saved money from summer jobs and perhaps parents kicked in a modest amount. I also think that universities need to focus their budgets on academics and much less on on athletics.
There is much in there that applies to Aust. too.
There should be a way to help those who truly need it but a blanket forgiveness is not wise. Does not encourage prudence and those who did not go to uni will wonder why they are asked to give even more to some they would consider privileged.
Certainly looking at how the uni are spending the money that get seems to be warranted.
Under the plan that Biden is proposing, there are income caps re: loan forgiveness. Frankly, some students will require loans even for public schools. Some students will require student loans to attend private schools. I think that student loans should be much more tightly regulated. As it stands now, many lenders were very predatory and I am reading many people reporting of making their loan payments for over a decade and NOT seeing the balance decrease. Some report that their loans were 'sold' and suddenly their loan balance increased, for which they could get neither explanation or relief. Such loan practices should never apply to anyone ever under any circumstance. When you are talking about young 'adults' (because we designated 18 year olds as adults so we could send them to Viet Nam--they really are not adults in terms of brain development) they lack the ability to fully understand the terms of loans or the implications for their life going forward
 
And—there are the parents ( I know some) who actively encourage their kids to take out loans for as much as they can, instead of cautioning them to live very frugally, study hard, spend as little as possible. And some who think that it really is t harder due their kids than it was for their parents. In terms of money: it’s much, much, much harder today —and for the past 25-30 years! compared with how it was for me. I had a couple of scholarships that payed almost everything. The rest I paid for with summer jobs. That’s not possible today. I only got the larger scholarship because my father’s employer offered them to high achieving students.
And then there are parents like my father in law who refused to help any one of his kids with paying for college/uni. He thought they all should be like him and get a great paying union job in a GM plant even though those job opportunities were basically non-existant.
 
Th left is buying votes in the mid terms. W are giving you free stuff.
I can understand why the like of Ted Cruz or Tom "these boots are made for walkin" Cotton or Fox News would call Joe Biden "the left", but why would you?


Do we really aant to drift into socilaism?

Shoud college be for everyone?

College is not for everyone, yet it should be available for anyone who wants it. A young person of color or someone from an economically disadvantaged background should be able to get into a good college if they had good grades, and the cost should not be prohibitive nor should they be saddled with debt akin to a home mortgage for the next several decades of their life. Is that socialism? I'd call it one of the benefits that should be available to citizens of the most wealthy and powerful country on the planet. Same thing with health care. Other non-superpower countries have been able to do both and have thriving economies, so why can't we? Instead of school and low cost healthcare we get...aircraft carriers?

As to the loan forgiveness plan itself, that's not socialism either. We have a huge student debt crisis looming, and this is a band aid to be sure, but at least a band aid is the beginning of treatment. It is also targeted squarely at the middle class...something that none of the programs enacted by the right have been. If you're rich, run a corporation, or are otherwise a "job creator," the right throws money at you in the form of tax incentives and - in the case of PPP - loans which dwarf the student debt program that can be forgiven with a wave of a government wand.

I looked up my son in law's business in the database. His family is well off, he's successful, and I'm pretty well certain that if he did have any lingering student loan debt, he would not qualify for $10k worth of forgiveness. He got two PPP loans worth about $400k total. He used it to keep his business operating during the pandemic (he's in the restaurant/catering space) and he doesn't have to pay any of it back.

Is that socialism?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a little socialism now and then. My parents came of age in the post WWII era, and were able to move from the working class to the middle class and live that "American Dream" life of a nice house in the suburbs affordable on a single income, affordable college for their kids if we wanted it, and social safety nets if anything went wrong. A lot of the things that made that possible (policies implemented under FDR, wages propped up by strong unions, massive government spending on infrastructure) would be derided as "socialism" by today's right wing. If that's socialism, then we could do with some more.
 
Th left is buying votes in the mid terms. W are giving you free stuff.
I can understand why the like of Ted Cruz or Tom "these boots are made for walkin" Cotton or Fox News would call Joe Biden "the left", but why would you?


Do we really aant to drift into socilaism?

Shoud college be for everyone?

College is not for everyone, yet it should be available for anyone who wants it. A young person of color or someone from an economically disadvantaged background should be able to get into a good college if they had good grades, and the cost should not be prohibitive nor should they be saddled with debt akin to a home mortgage for the next several decades of their life. Is that socialism? I'd call it one of the benefits that should be available to citizens of the most wealthy and powerful country on the planet. Same thing with health care. Other non-superpower countries have been able to do both and have thriving economies, so why can't we? Instead of school and low cost healthcare we get...aircraft carriers?

As to the loan forgiveness plan itself, that's not socialism either. We have a huge student debt crisis looming, and this is a band aid to be sure, but at least a band aid is the beginning of treatment. It is also targeted squarely at the middle class...something that none of the programs enacted by the right have been. If you're rich, run a corporation, or are otherwise a "job creator," the right throws money at you in the form of tax incentives and - in the case of PPP - loans which dwarf the student debt program that can be forgiven with a wave of a government wand.

I looked up my son in law's business in the database. His family is well off, he's successful, and I'm pretty well certain that if he did have any lingering student loan debt, he would not qualify for $10k worth of forgiveness. He got two PPP loans worth about $400k total. He used it to keep his business operating during the pandemic (he's in the restaurant/catering space) and he doesn't have to pay any of it back.

Is that socialism?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a little socialism now and then. My parents came of age in the post WWII era, and were able to move from the working class to the middle class and live that "American Dream" life of a nice house in the suburbs affordable on a single income, affordable college for their kids if we wanted it, and social safety nets if anything went wrong. A lot of the things that made that possible (policies implemented under FDR, wages propped up by strong unions, massive government spending on infrastructure) would be derided as "socialism" by today's right wing. If that's socialism, then we could do with some more.
Really good and thoughtful post. I'd also add this: Biden pretty much does what he says he will do. Some get mad at him when makes controversial moves (Afghan withdraw, student debt forgiveness, green energy incentives, and etc.). But these are items that he promised to do. He ain't like trump, all talk and no action.
 
Th left is buying votes in the mid terms. W are giving you free stuff.
I can understand why the like of Ted Cruz or Tom "these boots are made for walkin" Cotton or Fox News would call Joe Biden "the left", but why would you?


Do we really aant to drift into socilaism?

Shoud college be for everyone?

College is not for everyone, yet it should be available for anyone who wants it. A young person of color or someone from an economically disadvantaged background should be able to get into a good college if they had good grades, and the cost should not be prohibitive nor should they be saddled with debt akin to a home mortgage for the next several decades of their life. Is that socialism? I'd call it one of the benefits that should be available to citizens of the most wealthy and powerful country on the planet. Same thing with health care. Other non-superpower countries have been able to do both and have thriving economies, so why can't we? Instead of school and low cost healthcare we get...aircraft carriers?

As to the loan forgiveness plan itself, that's not socialism either. We have a huge student debt crisis looming, and this is a band aid to be sure, but at least a band aid is the beginning of treatment. It is also targeted squarely at the middle class...something that none of the programs enacted by the right have been. If you're rich, run a corporation, or are otherwise a "job creator," the right throws money at you in the form of tax incentives and - in the case of PPP - loans which dwarf the student debt program that can be forgiven with a wave of a government wand.

I looked up my son in law's business in the database. His family is well off, he's successful, and I'm pretty well certain that if he did have any lingering student loan debt, he would not qualify for $10k worth of forgiveness. He got two PPP loans worth about $400k total. He used it to keep his business operating during the pandemic (he's in the restaurant/catering space) and he doesn't have to pay any of it back.

Is that socialism?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a little socialism now and then. My parents came of age in the post WWII era, and were able to move from the working class to the middle class and live that "American Dream" life of a nice house in the suburbs affordable on a single income, affordable college for their kids if we wanted it, and social safety nets if anything went wrong. A lot of the things that made that possible (policies implemented under FDR, wages propped up by strong unions, massive government spending on infrastructure) would be derided as "socialism" by today's right wing. If that's socialism, then we could do with some more.
Really good and thoughtful post. I'd also add this: Biden pretty much does what he says he will do. Some get mad at him when makes controversial moves (Afghan withdraw, student debt forgiveness, green energy incentives, and etc.). But these are items that he promised to do. He ain't like trump, all talk and no action.
In fact, I'm impressed with how little talk and how much action is going on.

The trains are running on time, and the only noise and bloviation appears to be coming from those who are suddenly very angry that the trains are running on time because LIBRLS
 

Moreover, public universities are much more expensive compared with when I was young because state governments have dramatically pulled back in their financial support of universities, colleges and tech schools, leaving young people not old enough to purchase alcohol to incur debt they have no meaningful experience with which to understand the implications.

It’s simply wrong from a moral standpoint and wrong frim an economic stand point.
Perhaps you Yanks should restrict uni entry to those who are old enough to buy grog?

If your claim that young people are incurring a debt they have no meaningful experience with which to understand the implications is indeed true then that is a sad indictment on your education system. Perhaps spend a little time teaching children about loans, debt, its implications etc.? I sure that are many items in your education system that could be removed or lessened to make free such time.
I think that no matter how much information and knowledge an 18 year old is able to comprehend, real life consequences and bast sums of money are still kind of like fairy takes. 18 year olds who have, at most, managed to help buy a very dilapidated very used car, don’t truly understand how much it costs to pay rent in a very modest apartment, buy groceries, put gas in the car and pay car insurance and repairs when they come up compared with how much they are likely to be able to earn when they get their first ‘real’ grown up job. It’s too far out of the experience of almost any 18 year old. I gave the example up thread of one of my kids who was furious that I refused to agree to them attending a college that would require a student debt load of at least $100K. ( they did go to that uni—because we negotiated the price down and the assistance up do that it was on par with a state school). The thing is, that kid was always very good with their spending money, worked part time as soon as we’d agree to it and banked almost all of their earnings. And STILL can pinch a penny harder than anyone I know, aside from their sibling and my parents grew up during the Grest Depression! They are extremely intelligent, and deeply practical. But at that age, completely lacked any real context for vast sums of money.

Frankly my kids were really lucky because we believed it was our job as parents to pay for university, we set a realistic budget that we could afford and made it clear that if they wanted to attend private schools, that meant student loans and still we insisted that the loans be very small. A lot of kids, especially those who are the first in their families to attend university, do not have families with enough financial literacy to provide good advice or enough discretionary income to be of substantial financial help. Those are the kids who were really preyed upon by some lenders.

And—there are the parents ( I know some) who actively encourage their kids to take out loans for as much as they can, instead of cautioning them to live very frugally, study hard, spend as little as possible. And some who think that it really is t harder due their kids than it was for their parents. In terms of money: it’s much, much, much harder today —and for the past 25-30 years! compared with how it was for me. I had a couple of scholarships that payed almost everything. The rest I paid for with summer jobs. That’s not possible today. I only got the larger scholarship because my father’s employer offered them to high achieving students.

The real need is to increase state support for public universities to the same degree as they supported public universities in the early 70’s or better, when one could reasonably afford university if one saved money from summer jobs and perhaps parents kicked in a modest amount. I also think that universities need to focus their budgets on academics and much less on on athletics.
There is much in there that applies to Aust. too.
There should be a way to help those who truly need it but a blanket forgiveness is not wise. Does not encourage prudence and those who did not go to uni will wonder why they are asked to give even more to some they would consider privileged.
Certainly looking at how the uni are spending the money that get seems to be warranted.
Under the plan that Biden is proposing, there are income caps re: loan forgiveness. Frankly, some students will require loans even for public schools. Some students will require student loans to attend private schools. I think that student loans should be much more tightly regulated. As it stands now, many lenders were very predatory and I am reading many people reporting of making their loan payments for over a decade and NOT seeing the balance decrease. Some report that their loans were 'sold' and suddenly their loan balance increased, for which they could get neither explanation or relief. Such loan practices should never apply to anyone ever under any circumstance. When you are talking about young 'adults' (because we designated 18 year olds as adults so we could send them to Viet Nam--they really are not adults in terms of brain development) they lack the ability to fully understand the terms of loans or the implications for their life going forward
I just wanted to add: Those two scholarships totaled $1500/year. That paid almost entirely for 2 semesters tuition and two semesters of living in a dormitory (double occupancy). I had to come up with $300 plus book money/spending money. Book money was a big expense for me as I was in chemistry/biology and those books were $$. Even used. If you could find them. Because--get this--a lot of people kept their text books as references for upper division courses and grad school.

Yes I am old but seriously--EVERY student attending public university should be so fortunate as to be able to pay for college with summer jobs and maybe a little part time gig during the school year. But not too much because students who are exhausted from working too much slinging burgers, etc. don't have as much energy to do as well as they should in school. They take longer to graduate, which, conveniently for lenders, means they have to borrow more money.

A serious issue: Fewer and fewer people are attending graduate programs, largely because of student debt and because lack of financial support from institutions. In other words, in addition to student debt from undergrad, they are expected to take on additional debt for graduate school or professional school. This, btw, is a factor in why health care costs so much: Doctors have to pay off their student loans which are hundreds of thousands of dollars.

If you think conservatives are mad about immigrants taking all our jobs in food service and farm labor, just imagine how their minds will be blown when they figure out who is getting all the higher paid jobs and who is teaching college courses.
 
Th left is buying votes in the mid terms. W are giving you free stuff.
I can understand why the like of Ted Cruz or Tom "these boots are made for walkin" Cotton or Fox News would call Joe Biden "the left", but why would you?


Do we really aant to drift into socilaism?

Shoud college be for everyone?

College is not for everyone, yet it should be available for anyone who wants it. A young person of color or someone from an economically disadvantaged background should be able to get into a good college if they had good grades, and the cost should not be prohibitive nor should they be saddled with debt akin to a home mortgage for the next several decades of their life. Is that socialism? I'd call it one of the benefits that should be available to citizens of the most wealthy and powerful country on the planet. Same thing with health care. Other non-superpower countries have been able to do both and have thriving economies, so why can't we? Instead of school and low cost healthcare we get...aircraft carriers?

As to the loan forgiveness plan itself, that's not socialism either. We have a huge student debt crisis looming, and this is a band aid to be sure, but at least a band aid is the beginning of treatment. It is also targeted squarely at the middle class...something that none of the programs enacted by the right have been. If you're rich, run a corporation, or are otherwise a "job creator," the right throws money at you in the form of tax incentives and - in the case of PPP - loans which dwarf the student debt program that can be forgiven with a wave of a government wand.

I looked up my son in law's business in the database. His family is well off, he's successful, and I'm pretty well certain that if he did have any lingering student loan debt, he would not qualify for $10k worth of forgiveness. He got two PPP loans worth about $400k total. He used it to keep his business operating during the pandemic (he's in the restaurant/catering space) and he doesn't have to pay any of it back.

Is that socialism?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a little socialism now and then. My parents came of age in the post WWII era, and were able to move from the working class to the middle class and live that "American Dream" life of a nice house in the suburbs affordable on a single income, affordable college for their kids if we wanted it, and social safety nets if anything went wrong. A lot of the things that made that possible (policies implemented under FDR, wages propped up by strong unions, massive government spending on infrastructure) would be derided as "socialism" by today's right wing. If that's socialism, then we could do with some more.
Really good and thoughtful post. I'd also add this: Biden pretty much does what he says he will do. Some get mad at him when makes controversial moves (Afghan withdraw, student debt forgiveness, green energy incentives, and etc.). But these are items that he promised to do. He ain't like trump, all talk and no action.
In fact, I'm impressed with how little talk and how much action is going on.

The trains are running on time, and the only noise and bloviation appears to be coming from those who are suddenly very angry that the trains are running on time because LIBRLS
Yea, I've always said that the primary difference between Biden and trump is that Biden is competent, does what he says, is a coalition builder, and is quiet. Trump is the absolute opposite of these traits.
 
Th left is buying votes in the mid terms. W are giving you free stuff.
I can understand why the like of Ted Cruz or Tom "these boots are made for walkin" Cotton or Fox News would call Joe Biden "the left", but why would you?


Do we really aant to drift into socilaism?

Shoud college be for everyone?

College is not for everyone, yet it should be available for anyone who wants it. A young person of color or someone from an economically disadvantaged background should be able to get into a good college if they had good grades, and the cost should not be prohibitive nor should they be saddled with debt akin to a home mortgage for the next several decades of their life. Is that socialism? I'd call it one of the benefits that should be available to citizens of the most wealthy and powerful country on the planet. Same thing with health care. Other non-superpower countries have been able to do both and have thriving economies, so why can't we? Instead of school and low cost healthcare we get...aircraft carriers?

As to the loan forgiveness plan itself, that's not socialism either. We have a huge student debt crisis looming, and this is a band aid to be sure, but at least a band aid is the beginning of treatment. It is also targeted squarely at the middle class...something that none of the programs enacted by the right have been. If you're rich, run a corporation, or are otherwise a "job creator," the right throws money at you in the form of tax incentives and - in the case of PPP - loans which dwarf the student debt program that can be forgiven with a wave of a government wand.

I looked up my son in law's business in the database. His family is well off, he's successful, and I'm pretty well certain that if he did have any lingering student loan debt, he would not qualify for $10k worth of forgiveness. He got two PPP loans worth about $400k total. He used it to keep his business operating during the pandemic (he's in the restaurant/catering space) and he doesn't have to pay any of it back.

Is that socialism?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a little socialism now and then. My parents came of age in the post WWII era, and were able to move from the working class to the middle class and live that "American Dream" life of a nice house in the suburbs affordable on a single income, affordable college for their kids if we wanted it, and social safety nets if anything went wrong. A lot of the things that made that possible (policies implemented under FDR, wages propped up by strong unions, massive government spending on infrastructure) would be derided as "socialism" by today's right wing. If that's socialism, then we could do with some more.
Really good and thoughtful post. I'd also add this: Biden pretty much does what he says he will do. Some get mad at him when makes controversial moves (Afghan withdraw, student debt forgiveness, green energy incentives, and etc.). But these are items that he promised to do. He ain't like trump, all talk and no action.
In fact, I'm impressed with how little talk and how much action is going on.

The trains are running on time, and the only noise and bloviation appears to be coming from those who are suddenly very angry that the trains are running on time because LIBRLS
Yea, I've always said that the primary difference between Biden and trump is that Biden is competent, does what he says, is a coalition builder, and is quiet. Trump is the absolute opposite of these traits.
That and one is a narcissistic sociopathic criminal and the other is a lifelong public servant.
 
Th left is buying votes in the mid terms. W are giving you free stuff.
I can understand why the like of Ted Cruz or Tom "these boots are made for walkin" Cotton or Fox News would call Joe Biden "the left", but why would you?


Do we really aant to drift into socilaism?

Shoud college be for everyone?

College is not for everyone, yet it should be available for anyone who wants it. A young person of color or someone from an economically disadvantaged background should be able to get into a good college if they had good grades, and the cost should not be prohibitive nor should they be saddled with debt akin to a home mortgage for the next several decades of their life. Is that socialism? I'd call it one of the benefits that should be available to citizens of the most wealthy and powerful country on the planet. Same thing with health care. Other non-superpower countries have been able to do both and have thriving economies, so why can't we? Instead of school and low cost healthcare we get...aircraft carriers?

As to the loan forgiveness plan itself, that's not socialism either. We have a huge student debt crisis looming, and this is a band aid to be sure, but at least a band aid is the beginning of treatment. It is also targeted squarely at the middle class...something that none of the programs enacted by the right have been. If you're rich, run a corporation, or are otherwise a "job creator," the right throws money at you in the form of tax incentives and - in the case of PPP - loans which dwarf the student debt program that can be forgiven with a wave of a government wand.

I looked up my son in law's business in the database. His family is well off, he's successful, and I'm pretty well certain that if he did have any lingering student loan debt, he would not qualify for $10k worth of forgiveness. He got two PPP loans worth about $400k total. He used it to keep his business operating during the pandemic (he's in the restaurant/catering space) and he doesn't have to pay any of it back.

Is that socialism?

Honestly, I wouldn't mind a little socialism now and then. My parents came of age in the post WWII era, and were able to move from the working class to the middle class and live that "American Dream" life of a nice house in the suburbs affordable on a single income, affordable college for their kids if we wanted it, and social safety nets if anything went wrong. A lot of the things that made that possible (policies implemented under FDR, wages propped up by strong unions, massive government spending on infrastructure) would be derided as "socialism" by today's right wing. If that's socialism, then we could do with some more.
Really good and thoughtful post. I'd also add this: Biden pretty much does what he says he will do. Some get mad at him when makes controversial moves (Afghan withdraw, student debt forgiveness, green energy incentives, and etc.). But these are items that he promised to do. He ain't like trump, all talk and no action.
In fact, I'm impressed with how little talk and how much action is going on.

The trains are running on time, and the only noise and bloviation appears to be coming from those who are suddenly very angry that the trains are running on time because LIBRLS
Yea, I've always said that the primary difference between Biden and trump is that Biden is competent, does what he says, is a coalition builder, and is quiet. Trump is the absolute opposite of these traits.
That and one is a narcissistic sociopathic criminal and the other is a lifelong public servant.
Also in fact "absolute opposite traits".
 
Really good and thoughtful post. I'd also add this: Biden pretty much does what he says he will do. Some get mad at him when makes controversial moves (Afghan withdraw, student debt forgiveness, green energy incentives, and etc.). But these are items that he promised to do. He ain't like trump, all talk and no action.
In fact, I'm impressed with how little talk and how much action is going on.
Honestly, I wish there was a little more talk to go along with the action.

Awhile back, I made what was shaping up to be a spectacularly wrong prediction. That between the economy bouncing back from the pandemic and people getting back to "normal" things like going to baseball games, restaurants, and having the kids back in school, the Democrats were facing an easy task to buck the trend of incumbents losing in the mid term election if all they'd do is just very loudly take credit for everything good that was happening.

Then inflation happened, and gas pumps were being plastered with "I did that" stickers. Shit. Whatever gains might have been made from "The Great Resignation" (regular folks realizing they have agency and demanding better wages to come back to work) were gone, and "getting back to normal" suddenly became too expensive to afford that ball game or night out at the Olive Garden. Republicans did what they do, went for the throat, and it was looking like a sweep in November.

Then the right wing finally accomplished that which they wanted since 1973 but most people don't want. The dog caught the car on abortion. The "OMG look at the six dollar gas prices" political ads that were produced a few months ago don't seem to be having the same impact. Trump is spinning out of control, with his legal problems and his "can win the primary, can't win in the general" candidates not looking too good.

The Republicans are certainly trying to turn the student loan thing into a negative, and I hope the Biden administration pushes back a little more forcefully than they have been over just about everything. Come on, guys. When the chips were down, Republicans gave middle America a 300 dollar tax rebate. You're giving them 10 grand off their debts. Sell that a little harder. When they claim you're "buying votes," hit back. "If you send your money to Trump, you might get a hat. Support us, and we'll give you a lot more than a hat."

The tide is turning, but holding onto the House and Senate is going to take more than quiet effectiveness.
 
Eh, if the $10,000 loan forgiveness was a great thing to do, why not take it step further and make it $100,00 or more? Or full loan forgiveness? At what point do we say, "No, that's too much to expect of the taxpayers who have to pay for this" or "No, this will increase an already high inflation rate". And then are going to do this same thing in ten years (or less) for the next group of college students? Aren't they gonna say, "Hey, what about us? We want our 10k too! This isn't fair!" When does it end?
 
Th left is buying votes in the mid terms. W are giving you free stuff.
I can understand why the like of Ted Cruz or Tom "these boots are made for walkin" Cotton or Fox News would call Joe Biden "the left", but why would you?
I have always been an independent centrist. Spmeomes I agree with the right, sometimes the left. Sometimes I think they are both ceay imprecticle.

Keep in mind support on the left for this is not universal.

I believe in supporting yourself. I think too much social welfare will have negtve long run consequences.

One being the idea taking root that you are entitled or owed something. You don't have to work for it you are entitled to it.

Now Biden is sounding like Sanders. Free community college for all.

There are about 40 million people said to be in trouble with student loans. Does the economy really need all those degrees, and what are the degrees in?

From what I have seen in the later years of my engineering career college educatintion has traded quantity for quality. People who can't speak articulately and compose a coherent paragraph. Analogous to somebody graduating high school who reads at the grammr school level. If you want to pay the money there is alwys a school that will give yiu a degree.

It began in the early 90s when the idea was promoted the only way to get a good life was with a college degree. There are long running shortages in skilled labor areas.

The Occupy Wall Street protstrs were complaining they got a gegree but there are not any jobs for them. Well no shit, apprently they did not take Econ 101. Jobs are supply and demand. An example of an attitude of entitlement.

College was supposed to give students the skills to go out and crete jobs.


Do we really aant to drift into socilaism?

Shoud college be for everyone?
Your response appears to me as a complete non-sequitur. First, college is not about students going out and creating jobs. It is about education.

Second, debt relief for those who are in need has nothing whatsoever to do with what degrees the economy "needs" or does not "need".

Third, when WWII was over and soldiers returned, they believed that their should be jobs for them. Was that also entitlement thinking? Or was it just another example of ordinary human beings wanting to be able to support their households (whatever that entailed) and to feel useful.

Debt relief is no more "socialistic" than bankruptcy court or lots of defense spending or funding of public schools or the police.
 
Eh, if the $10,000 loan forgiveness was a great thing to do, why not take it step further and make it $100,00 or more? Or full loan forgiveness? At what point do we say, "No, that's too much to expect of the taxpayers who have to pay for this" or "No, this will increase an already high inflation rate". And then are going to do this same thing in ten years (or less) for the next group of college students? Aren't they gonna say, "Hey, what about us? We want our 10k too! This isn't fair!" When does it end?
It ends with common sense - something absent in your response.
 
Eh, if the $10,000 loan forgiveness was a great thing to do, why not take it step further and make it $100,00 or more? Or full loan forgiveness? At what point do we say, "No, that's too much to expect of the taxpayers who have to pay for this" or "No, this will increase an already high inflation rate". And then are going to do this same thing in ten years (or less) for the next group of college students? Aren't they gonna say, "Hey, what about us? We want our 10k too! This isn't fair!" When does it end?
I mean, it's not like we couldn't afford to do so. But that is inefficient; we should just pay their way through school in the first place, provided they are wiling to do the work.
 
Last edited:
In Mississippi,
Ashton Pittman on Twitter: "NEW: Gov. Tate Reeves says ..." / Twitter
NEW: Gov. Tate Reeves says that Biden's student loan debt forgiveness plan is evidence that "the Democrat[ic] Party hates working people."

But federal data shows a family air-conditioning business he co-owns received $191,217 in PPP loan forgiveness.

Gov. Tate Reeves says federal forgiving student loan debt forces "welders, plumbers, laborers, & other Mississippians" to pay for others' degrees.

The insurance company where his wife works as a financial advisor received $346,256 in PPP loan forgiveness.

Mississippi Sen. Chris McDaniel lamented that "taxpayers who never went to college are now being forced to pay for other people's college debt."

Federal data shows the law firm he is a partner at has received $418,527 in forgiveness from two PPP loans.

An Education Data Initiative analysis says that about 439,000 student borrowers live in Mississippi and owe $36,902 on average.

President Biden's plan will relieve $10k for single federal borrowers making under $125k, or $20k if they received Pell Grants.

Gov. Reeves: “Today Biden will announce that welders, plumbers, laborers, & other Mississippians (black, white, Hispanic, etc.) will be forced to pay off the debts of Harvard doctorate degree gender studies majors living in California."

The NAACP criticized Biden's plan, saying "cancelling just $10,000 of debt is like pouring a bucket of ice water on a forest fire. It hardly achieves anything—only making a mere dent in the problem."

Mississippi has the most Black residents per capita.

“Black Americans have been disproportionately devastated by student loan debt,” NAACP's Johnson and Cole wrote. “Four years after graduating, they hold an average of almost $53,000 in debt, almost double the $28,000 average White Americans hold."

Mississippi has the nation’s highest poverty rate, which disproportionately affects Black residents.

In 2017, Mississippi had the nation’s highest default rate for student loan borrowers at 15.2%—well above the national average of 9.7%.
Yet another pseudo-left-wing Republican.

Nina Turner on Twitter: "
Average PPP loan amount forgiven: $92k
Student debt canceled: $10k-20k
Now which one did the media cover and use the working class as a talking point against it?
" / Twitter
 
PPP = Paycheck Protection Program

Nick Riccardi on Twitter: "Fascinating to see PPP — which mainly kept workers paid during shutdowns rather than simply funneling money to business owners — retconned into TARP 2.0 during the great student debt Twitter debate." / Twitter
then
Nate Silver on Twitter: "@NickRiccardi Also, liberals seem to be trying to claim both that student loan relief is analogous to PPP and that PPP is bad, which would imply that student loan relief is also bad." / Twitter
then
Katie Mack on Twitter: "@NateSilver538 @NickRiccardi It’s really nowhere near that complicated; it’s honestly just “these folks are raging hypocrites who like debt relief when it’s for them [the rich/corporations] and not when it’s for other people [the poor/students]”" / Twitter
then
Katie Mack on Twitter: "@NateSilver538 @NickRiccardi There is of course a good argument to be made that it's not REALLY hypocrisy simply because it IS a principle thing (that conservatives think the rich/corporations deserve debt relief & the poor don't) but they're couching it as "debts must always be repaid!" so I think it's fair" / Twitter

With response
Lindsay Beyerstein on Twitter: "PPP is great! Pretending you’re John Fucking Galt while calling other people parasites is cringe." / Twitter
and
Lindsay Beyerstein on Twitter: "We’ve Republicans complaining that student loan forgiveness is wrong because it doesn’t help the very poorest of the poor when they got millions in PPP that wasn’t means-tested." / Twitter
 
Eh, if the $10,000 loan forgiveness was a great thing to do, why not take it step further and make it $100,00 or more? Or full loan forgiveness? At what point do we say, "No, that's too much to expect of the taxpayers who have to pay for this" or "No, this will increase an already high inflation rate". And then are going to do this same thing in ten years (or less) for the next group of college students? Aren't they gonna say, "Hey, what about us? We want our 10k too! This isn't fair!" When does it end?
The limits of $10K and $20K for Pell Grant recipients are the amount that could be instituted without legislation, which POTUS cannot simply enact.
 
Back
Top Bottom