US student loans grotesquely high

[RVonse]

Your taxes would still be paying for tuition in that case...

Yes they would and I would be fine with this because I view education as a good return on investment.

What I am absolutely NOT FINE with is paying anyone anything for a bad loan that they made in bad faith. If they were good enough to borrow the money, then THEY should pay what THEY agreed to pay.

Lets just let the taxpayers pay for all the bad car loans next.....

The borrower isn't the one who makes a bad loan in bad faith.

Then who would you blame it on? The tooth fairy? Nobody put a gun to anyone's head to take out a student loan.

 

[thebeave]

Your taxes would still be paying for tuition in that case...

Yes they would and I would be fine with this because I view education as a good return on investment.

What I am absolutely NOT FINE with is paying anyone anything for a bad loan that they made in bad faith. If they were good enough to borrow the money, then THEY should pay what THEY agreed to pay.

Lets just let the taxpayers pay for all the bad car loans next.....

The borrower isn't the one who makes a bad loan in bad faith.

The prospective borrowers need to understand the loan terms and assess whether they will have the means to pay off the loan after graduation, given their future occupation earnings, job prospects and demand, etc. If the numbers don't pan out, then choose a more lucrative major, go to a cheaper college or don't go to college at all and learn a trade, etc. I kind of worry that going forward there is going to be an expectation by future students that loan forgiveness is going to be an ongoing thing and Uncle Sam will just bail them out if things get tough. A bad assumption.

From what I have read recently, we may be at a turning point on college (at least in California). Enrollment is down substantially (cost is too high and going higher, and insufficient, affordable housing). It looks like this latest generation (the young men anyway) are going into vocational education in higher numbers, which I think is a good thing, both for themselves and society. Scholarships for college men are much more rare than for women, so that is yet another impetus for the shift.

 

[Politesse]

It looks like this latest generation (the young men anyway) are going into vocational education in higher numbers, which I think is a good thing, both for themselves and society.

If your concern is student loan related grift, vocational schools aren't solving that problem, they are the problem.

 

[thebeave]

It looks like this latest generation (the young men anyway) are going into vocational education in higher numbers, which I think is a good thing, both for themselves and society.

If your concern is student loan related grift, vocational schools aren't solving that problem, they are the problem.

Student loan grift didn't even enter my mind in my discussion. Yes, there are certainly some vocational schools that are ripping people off but there are plenty that are legit.

 

[bilby]

I can not think of any examples of college degrees for professions that require hard labor.

Your inability to think of something is not good evidence for its non-existence.

 

[Politesse]

It looks like this latest generation (the young men anyway) are going into vocational education in higher numbers, which I think is a good thing, both for themselves and society.

If your concern is student loan related grift, vocational schools aren't solving that problem, they are the problem.

Student loan grift didn't even enter my mind in my discussion.

It definitely should have. The vast bulk of this debt is not the result of students walking up to their friendly small town banker and demanding a loan on fair terms. They are being purposefully and grievously lied to and exploited by an entire crooked industry of predatory lenders.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And neither is Biden's student loan forgiveness, which is just a giveaway to those who are, on average, more well-off than the average American.

Evidence-free assertion. It's also a political drag-queen sort of argument: left-wing posturing. All outrage and no substance, and manufactured outrage at that.

You don't need to see any more evidence than look at what a brick layer does compared to the labor done by a lawyer or accountant. Why should the person who labors with sweat have to pay (with taxation) for someone's degree who sits in the air conditioning all day?

That's not even close to fair.

And sweat is the only measure of the value someone contributes?

 

[Politesse]

And neither is Biden's student loan forgiveness, which is just a giveaway to those who are, on average, more well-off than the average American.

Evidence-free assertion. It's also a political drag-queen sort of argument: left-wing posturing. All outrage and no substance, and manufactured outrage at that.

You don't need to see any more evidence than look at what a brick layer does compared to the labor done by a lawyer or accountant. Why should the person who labors with sweat have to pay (with taxation) for someone's degree who sits in the air conditioning all day?

That's not even close to fair.

And sweat is the only measure of the value someone contributes?

Deppends on the person. With rightwing thinking, it's important to remember the quiet part they aren't saying-- not everyone loses access to social goods when they become pay-to-play.

 

[thebeave]

It looks like this latest generation (the young men anyway) are going into vocational education in higher numbers, which I think is a good thing, both for themselves and society.

If your concern is student loan related grift, vocational schools aren't solving that problem, they are the problem.

Student loan grift didn't even enter my mind in my discussion.

It definitely should have. The vast bulk of this debt is not the result of students walking up to their friendly small town banker and demanding a loan on fair terms. They are being purposefully and grievously lied to and exploited by an entire crooked industry of predatory lenders.

Fair enough. Students need to understand the concept of Buyer Beware when it comes to student loans, along with a crackdown on these grifters.

The loan grifting works the other way too. Check this one out:

https://www.tmz.com/2024/04/17/brazilian-woman-arrested-dead-uncle-bank-secure-loan/#continued

 

[ZiprHead]

Elon Musk's companies have received over 3 billion in government subsidies. Why are we giving my tax dollars to the richest man in the world?

 

[TV and credit cards]

NPR Many in Gen Z ditch colleges for trade schools.

In 2021, President Biden signed a $1.2 trillion bipartisan infrastructure bill. Since then, he's been traveling the country promoting the law, which he says will open up thousands of new jobs in trades.

Data from the National Student Clearinghouse Research Center shows the number of students enrolled in vocational-focused community colleges increased 16% from 2022 to 2023.

After spending almost six years hiring various small contractors in my last job, I sometimes wish I had gone this route right out of high school. Most of the contractors I dealt with had all the work they wanted. It's not difficult to excel and make a good living. You're not swimming in the deep end of the pool here. It's been my observation most small contractors know their trade and little else. The business aspect of it: zilch. Managing people: zilch.

And at the other end of the spectrum, you have these crybabies:
Some young people see Trump as an answer to their economic woes

Reuters interviewed 20 people under the age of 30 to understand their support. The most common reason given for backing the former president was inflation and the perception the economy was not working for them, underscoring how the rise in prices for daily staples is more salient for some than high stock prices and low unemployment during the Biden years.

Won't take advantage of any voc tech their high school/county may offer. Won't look to a career in the military. Just sit on their ass and hope a good job falls in their lap and when it doesn't, find someone to blame.

Just an hour south of me is an entire community of folks with eighth grade educations, who do not use electricity or drive cars and do quite well for themselves in the trades. In fact many of them are quite wealthy.

In today's economy, people are running out of excuses.