Veterans with bad attitudes

[Politesse]

I am aware. They are, however, trained in the art of killing people. Rational to mind your manners around such folk.

They're not the only ones who are trained in the art of killing. Or who are capable of killing.

I'm pretty damn polite fo police officers and CIA agents as well.

 

[Angry Floof]

I am aware. They are, however, trained in the art of killing people. Rational to mind your manners around such folk.

They're not the only ones who are trained in the art of killing. Or who are capable of killing.

I'm pretty damn polite fo police officers and CIA agents as well.

I'm also pretty damn polite to people who aren't.

 

[KeepTalking]

Whenever I encounter the "thank you for your service" comment, I try to be gracious about it and remember that the person is simply expressing some genuine appreciation.

I don't figure it's my place to say what I'm thinking, which is a mixture of, "Well, that's nice, but I really didn't do it for you," "Thank you for your service" has become a meaningless auto-response like "Have a Nice Day," and a slight irritation that the Republican party has so thoroughly hijacked military service appreciation that it somehow "taints" an expression of it to some degree. This is all internal, though.

Externally, I always smile and thank the person for their acknowledgement-- usually adding a humorous aside like "Oh, it was my pleasure. Most of the time, haha." One of my standard responses was, "Thank YOU for being a taxpayer all those years--we had some pretty expensive toys back in the day, haha."

I don't need to hear it, and don't even particularly want to, but I never make a person sorry they said it. Mentally, I usually remind myself that in a very tangible way I'm "accepting" this appreciation on behalf of service members I knew, or for that matter didn't know, who aren't around to hear it for themselves...which is another reason to accept it graciously and move on.

Pretty much how I feel about it as well. I did not serve during a conflict, and I only joined the military because I flunked out of college my first go around (too much partying) and I wanted to get out of my religious parents house. If I ever talk about having been in the military, it is usually something along the lines of "I really learned a lot in the military, mostly how much I hated being in the military." Unless I happen to be talking to someone who shared the same, or a related, MOS or the conversation is about some general aspect of military life.

 

[KeepTalking]

I would say that much of it does qualify as "worship" with a level of dogmatic sacredness that anyone who is caught doing or saying anything that could even be mistaken as critical of soldiers is viciously attacked and villainized. It is tethered to the kind of authoritarian nationalism demanded by the right. The anthem kneeling nonsense is a perfect example of this.

The anthem kneeling is supposedly against the US flag, which of course it is not. But yeah, I have a bunch of red neck relatives who never served a day in their life anyone or anything except themselves claim that it is disrespectful of all the brave men who gave you the right to (actually, it was, among other things, the right to protest).

No actual military I know believes that shit.

Unfortunately my Father, who served in the Army during Korea, does. At Thanksgiving of the year when Kaepernick started kneeling he declared that he would not watch the NFL anymore because he was a veteran and they were disrespecting the flag, while failing to connect those two dots. I replied that I was a veteran as well, and as far as I was concerned the military serves precisely to protect the right to protest in that manner, then I went and watched football in the basement with my BIL because no on else would stand up to Dad.

Dad is a lifelong republican, and a Southern Baptist Deacon. He bought into the Trump cult fully, and at one point soon after Trump was elected, he mused to one of my sisters that he hoped that none of his kids were liberals. She got to break the news to him that all 5 of us are liberal. I think that actually caused him to pull back from that cult attitude a bit, though he still favors Trump, family means a lot to him.

 

[ZiprHead]

My brother, the national guard veteran, was gassing up while wearing his Vietnam service cap. Another driver came up to him his thanks for his service spiel. The guy went on to say how much he thanks the republicans for all they do for veterans. My brother's pretty astute about politics and started telling the guy about all the shitty things republicans have done to veterans. The guy gets pissed off and attacks my brother physically. My brother actually spent a good deal of time training troops in hand-to-hand combat and restrained the guy fairly quickly. He let the guy whimper off.

 

[ZiprHead]

Here's a veteran with a bad attitude, at least according to Texas Senator Cornyn.

Too bad it didn't work out for him.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Here's a veteran with a bad attitude, at least according to Texas Senator Cornyn.

Too bad it didn't work out for him.

Daaaaaaw. Look at him reaching for the pearl-clutching vote....in Texas. When i used to DM D&D games, this would be an action i would not roll the dice for, no chance of success. Just "Okay, tell me when you stop doing that." and turn to the next player.

 

[ronburgundy]

I agree that much of the nationalistic military worship comes from those who haven't served, but my brother and father both were career military and fully believe that the kneeling was an attack on our sacred troops that everyone must treat as selfless heroes. I've been around many military lifers who view themselves as the selfless saviors of humanity and Kaepernick as a traitor. The anthem and flag itself have become essentially synonymous with praise for the military among conservatives. In fact, I bet the vast majority of Trump supporters and Republicans in general who are vets hold this view, and polls show most vets support Trump and they skew GOP almost 2:1. And I dont' think this is b/c the military experience makes them conservatives. Especially over the past 20 years when actual combat has been a high probability, many have joined b/c they support the killing of the non-Christian, non-white evil. Bush invoked Christianity to invade Iraq b/c it works. There are vets who are a minority exception, but there is strong vein of far right nationalistic, religious, white supremacy in the military. My brother was always a mindless follower prone to authoritarianism but he never said the N-word in his life, until after just 3 months in the military on his first leave it was every other word (the other word being "bitch" to refer to any woman). Completely predictably, he is now a cop.

What I want to know is how did kneeling become less respectful than standing? Disrespect would be turning away from the flag. Of course that was a rhetorical question. The answer is because Trump says so! I think we have a major pandemic of stupidity.

Yeah, I don't think ever in history has kneeling before something been done or viewed as disrespect. Which is what makes it definitive that the whole narrative is a lie and just a smokescreen to cover up that they are mad that uppity black people dare complain about being murdered by the cops.

 

[ronburgundy]

I agree that much of the nationalistic military worship comes from those who haven't served, but my brother and father both were career military and fully believe that the kneeling was an attack on our sacred troops that everyone must treat as selfless heroes.

My only problem with the "taking a knee" demonstration at sports events is that people watch sports as an escape. Few want politics inserted into every facet of their lives including their 'escape time'. I would certainly support such demonstration in front of a local police station or the state house.

Except that the anthem ritual itself is nothing but orchestrated political propaganda. And since 9/11, they've added constant pro military and pro war sentiments to the announcements and who is being honored, etc.. So, those who complain about the kneeling but not the whole nationalistic ritual itself are clearly not bothered by politics in their sports, so long as it is their politics.

 

[Angry Floof]

I agree that much of the nationalistic military worship comes from those who haven't served, but my brother and father both were career military and fully believe that the kneeling was an attack on our sacred troops that everyone must treat as selfless heroes.

My only problem with the "taking a knee" demonstration at sports events is that people watch sports as an escape. Few want politics inserted into every facet of their lives including their 'escape time'. I would certainly support such demonstration in front of a local police station or the state house.

Except that the anthem ritual itself is nothing but orchestrated political propaganda. And since 9/11, they've added constant pro military and pro war sentiments to the announcements and who is being honored, etc.. So, those who complain about the kneeling but not the whole nationalistic ritual itself are clearly not bothered by politics in their sports, so long as it is their politics.

Well, as Noam Chomsky said, sports fandom is really just training in irrational tribalism. Tribalists don't actually have principles other than tribalism, so the acts of kneeling or pledging allegiance in themselves mean nothing beyond who's team is doing it. They would not be able to recognize someone who knelt or pledged out of principle rather than obedience to the team colors.

 

[Treedbear]

...
What I want to know is how did kneeling become less respectful than standing? Disrespect would be turning away from the flag. Of course that was a rhetorical question. The answer is because Trump says so! I think we have a major pandemic of stupidity.

Yeah, I don't think ever in history has kneeling before something been done or viewed as disrespect. Which is what makes it definitive that the whole narrative is a lie and just a smokescreen to cover up that they are mad that uppity black people dare complain about being murdered by the cops.

If anything kneeling is a sign of an even deeper respect than simply standing. It's a traditional sign of reverence. Especially when done by those who might be looked on as a type of warrior, such as football players. So if anything Colin Kaepernick was demonstrating a profound dedication to America's mission to forge a more perfect union by confronting racial injustices. It was in no way like what it means to raise one's fist in a black power salute, or to turn one's back as the NYC police did to Mayor de Blasio. It was a call to exorcise racial prejudice from American society. Something which Trump could not let go unchallenged. Unfortunately the news media and the general public reacted just as Trump knew they would. Trump IS the virus.

 

[Treedbear]

Except that the anthem ritual itself is nothing but orchestrated political propaganda. And since 9/11, they've added constant pro military and pro war sentiments to the announcements and who is being honored, etc.. So, those who complain about the kneeling but not the whole nationalistic ritual itself are clearly not bothered by politics in their sports, so long as it is their politics.

Well, as Noam Chomsky said, sports fandom is really just training in irrational tribalism. Tribalists don't actually have principles other than tribalism, so the acts of kneeling or pledging allegiance in themselves mean nothing beyond who's team is doing it. They would not be able to recognize someone who knelt or pledged out of principle rather than obedience to the team colors.

I guess that's what skepticalbip is talking about. Sports entertainment as an exercise in the practice of unquestioning loyalty and blind obedience.

 

[Angry Floof]

Except that the anthem ritual itself is nothing but orchestrated political propaganda. And since 9/11, they've added constant pro military and pro war sentiments to the announcements and who is being honored, etc.. So, those who complain about the kneeling but not the whole nationalistic ritual itself are clearly not bothered by politics in their sports, so long as it is their politics.

Well, as Noam Chomsky said, sports fandom is really just training in irrational tribalism. Tribalists don't actually have principles other than tribalism, so the acts of kneeling or pledging allegiance in themselves mean nothing beyond who's team is doing it. They would not be able to recognize someone who knelt or pledged out of principle rather than obedience to the team colors.

I guess that's what skepticalbip is talking about. Sports entertainment as an exercise in the practice of unquestioning loyalty and blind obedience.

I doubt that. Sounded more like "keep politics out of sports if it's black people kneeling," but pledging allegiance to the flag and the national anthem, etc., you know, nationalist conditioning that tribalists love so much, is ok politics in sports. There's no real principle there, just racism and tribalism.

 

[Treedbear]

I guess that's what skepticalbip is talking about. Sports entertainment as an exercise in the practice of unquestioning loyalty and blind obedience.

I doubt that. Sounded more like "keep politics out of sports if it's black people kneeling," but pledging allegiance to the flag and the national anthem, etc., you know, nationalist conditioning that tribalists love so much, is ok politics in sports. There's no real principle there, just racism and tribalism.

It's the principle of unprincipled racism and tribalism.

 

[Keith&Co.]

I guess that's what skepticalbip is talking about. Sports entertainment as an exercise in the practice of unquestioning loyalty and blind obedience.

I doubt that. Sounded more like "keep politics out of sports if it's black people kneeling," but pledging allegiance to the flag and the national anthem, etc., you know, nationalist conditioning that tribalists love so much, is ok politics in sports. There's no real principle there, just racism and tribalism.

It's the principle of unprincipled racism and tribalism.

Well, that's not 'politics.' That's just 'how we do things.' Wanting change, now, THAT'S politics. Don't want any of that. Changing laws, policy, decreasing privilege, rewriting history...not on my watch, not on my sportsball infomerial!

 

[Angry Floof]

I guess that's what skepticalbip is talking about. Sports entertainment as an exercise in the practice of unquestioning loyalty and blind obedience.

I doubt that. Sounded more like "keep politics out of sports if it's black people kneeling," but pledging allegiance to the flag and the national anthem, etc., you know, nationalist conditioning that tribalists love so much, is ok politics in sports. There's no real principle there, just racism and tribalism.

It's the principle of unprincipled racism and tribalism.

Yes, exactly. lol. It's the only "principle" at play in conservative politics at the moment.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

Have known two veterans who still had a healthy dose of that machismo bravado bullshit about them. But they are the exception.

Not sure what's driving the current dynamic for military worship. Maybe too few people are experiencing the military and so glorify it, don't know what it is. I just joined for the money, which wasn't bad, got me out of Smalltown USA. I really don't like when people give that thank-you thing.

One nice perk is getting discounts as a veteran and some stores even reserve parking spots for veterans. Maybe they know we're actually handicapped.

 

[Treedbear]

It's the principle of unprincipled racism and tribalism.

Well, that's not 'politics.' That's just 'how we do things.' Wanting change, now, THAT'S politics. Don't want any of that. Changing laws, policy, decreasing privilege, rewriting history...not on my watch, not on my sportsball infomerial!

Not a sports fan myself. I wouldn't be able to put in the time required to make it seem interesting. That being said I suppose you and skepticalbip have a valid point. I just object to Trump and others making "taking a knee" out to be unpatriotic. You can have your rituals without making it a religion.

 

[Derec]

Especially when done by those who might be looked on as a type of warrior, such as football players. So if anything Colin Kaepernick was demonstrating a profound dedication to America's mission to forge a more perfect union by confronting racial injustices.

Yeah, that's a steaming load of bullshit. When Kaep did that he was also wearing some "cops are pigs" socks. He later objected to Nike bringing out a sneaker with a US flag because he hates America.

Kaep is now publishing a series of essays demanding police and prisons be abolished.
Kaepernick: Abolish police, prisons

The series of rambling essays about police abolition can be found here. Kaep himself wrote one of them. Another author is Communist Angela Davis, who provided weapons for the 1971 Marin County Courthouse Massacre, but was not held responsible for it.
Other authors are the mother of a guy who stabbed another man before being shot by police, a BLM terrorist who murdered a police officer and is serving a life sentence for it and assorted leftist extremists.

 

[Derec]

I just object to Trump and others making "taking a knee" out to be unpatriotic.

It was not Trump who made the gesture unpatriotic. It is the fact that Kaep is an anti-police, anti-American extremist and that he was the one who popularized that particular gesture.
If a more mainstream, more moderate player had used that gesture in a more measured way (for example, by only protesting actual injustice and not every black men, including armed ones, killed by police), I do not think it would have become this controversial.