Vive la France!

[Derec]

I don't think you understand what Nazis are. They are boring and uptight citizens, who demand a strong government to crack down on "them", because "they" are making the place look untidy.

Good way to smear people as "Nazis" just for disagreeing with something like for example unrestricted mass migration. Or resisting "change" of creeping Islamization.

The brutal, jackboot-wearing, villainous thugs who shoot people dead; The Brownshirts who started wild brawls with rival political parties;

The rival political parties had their own paramilitary brawlers. For example, the German Communist Party (KPD) had the "Antifaschistische Aktion" - they are the origin of the Antifa movement. Modern Antifas use a very similar flag that the OG Antifas used.

At least the right wingers like FN do not go around smashing things while calling themselves the Sturmabteilung and waving Nazi flags ...

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Or resisting "change" of creeping Islamization.

Which isn't a threat in the U.S. Christian theocratic fasicism is. Also the irony of you complaining about generalizations while generalizing immigrants or Muslims.

 

[scombrid]

Man. The couple that owns and runs the A Food Mart up the street; paying for their kids to go to Trinity Prep with the proceeds of beer and lotto sales, are the threat. I should be panicking about them and not The Heritage Foundation, The Heartland Institute, etc… got it.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Man. The couple that owns and runs the A Food Mart up the street; paying for their kids to go to Trinity Prep with the proceeds of beer and lotto sales, are the threat. I should be panicking about them and not The Heritage Foundation, The Heartland Institute, etc… got it.

Well, I'd have to know more about Trinity Prep to make any judgment about that institution. Is it a cult or cult-like? Do they teach "evolution bad"? Do they teach "being gay bad"? Etc.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't think you understand what Nazis are. They are boring and uptight citizens, who demand a strong government to crack down on "them", because "they" are making the place look untidy.

Good way to smear people as "Nazis" just for disagreeing with something like for example unrestricted mass migration. Or resisting "change" of creeping Islamization.

You didn't get his point. The Nazis in great part were able to slaughter millions of civilians because they made people grumpy over some stupid thing that wasn't that important (or even real). The otherwise, quite normal people allowed themselves to dehumanize a subset of the human population. They allowed themselves to be deluded into this grand vision of the new world. And the suffering that came from that is unspeakable.

Nazis didn't run on a platform of Genocide. Fascists never do. Yet the fascists have a tendency of finishing up with the murders.

The brutal, jackboot-wearing, villainous thugs who shoot people dead; The Brownshirts who started wild brawls with rival political parties;

The rival political parties had their own paramilitary brawlers. For example, the German Communist Party (KPD) had the "Antifaschistische Aktion" - they are the origin of the Antifa movement. Modern Antifas use a very similar flag that the OG Antifas used.

Jebus! This reads like the alt-right SCOTUS justices in the immunity trial. But what about the underground weremoles?!

We are looking at a threat that is upon us, and you are still droning on about a threat that isn't real. You have allowed yourself to be lied to, just like the Germans and Italians were.

 

[Canard DuJour]

It is interesting that Labour's moderate Starmer was able to lead his party to a landslide victory in the UK after so many years of Tory government. I think that what happened in the UK and France demonstrates that the public prefers to avoid extremes on both the left and the right. What led to the defeat of Le Pen's movement was what is being called "strategic voting" in France--the choice by third-ranked candidates in the middle and on the left to drop out in favor of stronger anti-right candidates in their local districts. Many voters who ended up voting for the Popular Front were not really voting for their first choice, just for the lesser of two evils in their minds.

Well, no, or they'd just have voted for Macron. Or for Starmer - who, despite the supposed "landslide", got fewer votes than Corbyn, even in 2019. Electorates are increasingly polarised.

 

[Canard DuJour]

It is interesting that Labour's moderate Starmer was able to lead his party to a landslide victory in the UK after so many years of Tory government.

Starmer would have fitted in very well in the Conservative Party of the late 1970s and early '80s, before Thatcherism got full traction after the '83 General Election.

Many of the then Tory 'wets' were to the left of Starmer's current policies.

Yep. I wonder if US observers still assume that UK parties are somewhere left of US equivalents. Not so:

That was in the FT re the Tory "Shift under Truss", but the truly shocking bit is Labour now to the right of the US Dems.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is a result of the 1980s. The conservatives sold this insane idea that austerity and lower taxes could make the world a better place. It stuck. The Democrats were able to get back into the White House by grasping the lower taxes and some less financial regulation mantra (oddly enough helping to create the '08 Great Recession). Thatcherism and Trickle Down economics has been proven to be an outright failure, but it is still very popular. If it wasn't for the moderate courts, we'd still have criminalized gay sex and gay marriage would likely only be legal in a few states. Moderate courts pushed America to the left, not the Democrats (who admittedly did put those justices on the courts).

Rupert Murdoch did a masterful job of making the western world more conservative, even if to their own determent.

I will say, I was surprised that even after the pains of Brexit, Britons apparently don't get they were lied to by the far-right. Then you see Derec's posts and you understand why. They've been deluded into thinking it isn't their fault for voting for that crap, it is the migrant horde. Fuck we're screwed. We've lost. The End Game just needs to finish up.

 

[Copernicus]

It is interesting that Labour's moderate Starmer was able to lead his party to a landslide victory in the UK after so many years of Tory government. I think that what happened in the UK and France demonstrates that the public prefers to avoid extremes on both the left and the right. What led to the defeat of Le Pen's movement was what is being called "strategic voting" in France--the choice by third-ranked candidates in the middle and on the left to drop out in favor of stronger anti-right candidates in their local districts. Many voters who ended up voting for the Popular Front were not really voting for their first choice, just for the lesser of two evils in their minds.

Well, no, or they'd just have voted for Macron. Or for Starmer - who, despite the supposed "landslide", got fewer votes than Corbyn, even in 2019. Electorates are increasingly polarised.

You live in the UK, so you know the difference between a presidential election and a parliamentary election. People vote for their local representative. Macron was not even on any ballot. That is why the French politicians resorted to strategic voting to stop the threat of a rightwing takeover. The fact is that people did vote for Macron and Starmer when and where they were on the ballot. Everyone knows that electorates are polarized. Nobody is disputing that.

In the US we have this saying: all politics is local. Because parliamentary elections often lead to legislative bodies where no party holds a majority, it can be very difficult to form governments. That happened in France, despite the fact that strategic voting did successfully prevent the right from having the opportunity to form a government. Unfortunately, it did not leave France with a clear or easy path to forming a government. French politicians are struggling to form some kind of viable alliance. The situation in the UK did lead to the formation of a stable government, so congratulations.

 

[Thomas II]

 

[Harry Bosch]

It is a result of the 1980s. The conservatives sold this insane idea that austerity and lower taxes could make the world a better place. It stuck. The Democrats were able to get back into the White House by grasping the lower taxes and some less financial regulation mantra (oddly enough helping to create the '08 Great Recession). Thatcherism and Trickle Down economics has been proven to be an outright failure, but it is still very popular. If it wasn't for the moderate courts, we'd still have criminalized gay sex and gay marriage would likely only be legal in a few states. Moderate courts pushed America to the left, not the Democrats (who admittedly did put those justices on the courts).

Rupert Murdoch did a masterful job of making the western world more conservative, even if to their own determent.

I will say, I was surprised that even after the pains of Brexit, Britons apparently don't get they were lied to by the far-right. Then you see Derec's posts and you understand why. They've been deluded into thinking it isn't their fault for voting for that crap, it is the migrant horde. Fuck we're screwed. We've lost. The End Game just needs to finish up.

I hope that you're not saying that conservatives in the US practiced "austerity"! They've increased spending every time they took power. Did the Torries really practice austerity? I'm not an expert here (someone please correct me); but I did a quick google search on this and see that spending went up during their rule. Spending went up, taxes down, deficit higher. There is this perception out there that conservatives are more financially responsible because they advocate less borrowing. However, whenever I look at the facts, I see the oppositive.

 

[Copernicus]

I hope that you're not saying that conservatives in the US practiced "austerity"!

But they do practice austerity when it comes to social programs, just not overall government spending.

 

[jonatha]

Macron was not even on any ballot.

He will be in 2027, the French parliamentary system notwithstanding.

(Well, actually he's not eligible for a third consecutive term. But the office of President of France is one filled by popular vote, unlike the office of Prime Minister of the UK [or France, for that matter].)

 

[laughing dog]

Bullshit. Might as well say that it is the people of your (or Jimmy's) opinion that will bring communists to power.

One could, if one wished to sound like a Magatard.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I hope that you're not saying that conservatives in the US practiced "austerity"!

But they do practice austerity when it comes to social programs, just not overall government spending.

Oh for sure. They are spend just as much as democrats, but on programs that they prefer (mostly defense spending). My only point here is that many many Americans believe that when republicans are elected, the deficits go down. And this is just totally wrong. If taxes go down but spending goes up, deficits go up.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I hope that you're not saying that conservatives in the US practiced "austerity"!

But they do practice austerity when it comes to social programs, just not overall government spending.

Oh for sure. They are spend just as much as democrats, but on programs that they prefer (mostly defense spending). My only point here is that many many Americans believe that when republicans are elected, the deficits go down. And this is just totally wrong. If taxes go down but spending goes up, deficits go up.

Yes and yes. Agree fully. I was more speaking from a conservative voter mindset. If you ask a conservative voter which presidents typically have lower deficits, you know they'll say Republicans because they "reduce spending". It is less an application of fact as it is an image of how Republicans are portrayed especially by moderates and conservatives.

 

[scombrid]

Man. The couple that owns and runs the A Food Mart up the street; paying for their kids to go to Trinity Prep with the proceeds of beer and lotto sales, are the threat. I should be panicking about them and not The Heritage Foundation, The Heartland Institute, etc… got it.

Well, I'd have to know more about Trinity Prep to make any judgment about that institution. Is it a cult or cult-like? Do they teach "evolution bad"? Do they teach "being gay bad"? Etc.

Hah. Rich WASP type academy. Brown kids of different religions are allowed in if they boost test scores or run fast. Religion is nominal. It’s all about the Benjamins.

 

[bilby]

I hope that you're not saying that conservatives in the US practiced "austerity"!

But they do practice austerity when it comes to social programs, just not overall government spending.

Oh for sure. They are spend just as much as democrats, but on programs that they prefer (mostly defense spending). My only point here is that many many Americans believe that when republicans are elected, the deficits go down. And this is just totally wrong. If taxes go down but spending goes up, deficits go up.

Yup. as Alexei Sayle noted: "Austerity is the idea that the global financial crash of 2008 was caused by there being too many libraries in Wolverhampton".

To which we could add "...but not enough British aircraft carriers".

 

[Canard DuJour]

It is interesting that Labour's moderate Starmer was able to lead his party to a landslide victory in the UK after so many years of Tory government. I think that what happened in the UK and France demonstrates that the public prefers to avoid extremes on both the left and the right. What led to the defeat of Le Pen's movement was what is being called "strategic voting" in France--the choice by third-ranked candidates in the middle and on the left to drop out in favor of stronger anti-right candidates in their local districts. Many voters who ended up voting for the Popular Front were not really voting for their first choice, just for the lesser of two evils in their minds.

Well, no, or they'd just have voted for Macron. Or for Starmer - who, despite the supposed "landslide", got fewer votes than Corbyn, even in 2019. Electorates are increasingly polarised.

You live in the UK, so you know the difference between a presidential election and a parliamentary election. People vote for their local representative. Macron was not even on any ballot. That is why the French politicians resorted to strategic voting to stop the threat of a rightwing takeover. The fact is that people did vote for Macron and Starmer when and where they were on the ballot. Everyone knows that electorates are polarized. Nobody is disputing that.

Macron's centrist 'Ensemble' was on the ballot (I obviously didn't mean Macron the individual), and came second to the NFP with its extreme left contingent. If, as you say, they had to selectively stand down candidates to stop the extreme right getting more seats, it's hardly evidence of aversion to extremes. If so, I'd hate to see what increasing preference for extremes looks like.

In the US we have this saying: all politics is local. Because parliamentary elections often lead to legislative bodies where no party holds a majority, it can be very difficult to form governments. That happened in France, despite the fact that strategic voting did successfully prevent the right from having the opportunity to form a government. Unfortunately, it did not leave France with a clear or easy path to forming a government. French politicians are struggling to form some kind of viable alliance. The situation in the UK did lead to the formation of a stable government, so congratulations.

I'm afraid congratulations are very much not in order. A "landslide" with fewer votes than the "historic defeat" of the last election bespeaks a failing democracy. Were it not for the Tory implosion, I doubt Labour would last a single term in office.

 

[Derec]

Which isn't a threat in the U.S.

This is a thread about elections in France, not the US.
The threat is much higher in Europe, because they have imported far more Muslims in recent decades.
That said, the threat should not be ignored in the US either. Biden imported many poorly vetted Afghans after the botched withdrawal in 2021. Now he wants to bring a bunch of Gazans over, even though Gazan population is chock-a-block with radical Muslims.

Christian theocratic fasicism is.

Actually existing Islam is far more fascist than actually existing Christianity, even US Christianity.
In US evangelical Christians want to ban gay marriage again. In Islamic countries, they hang gays or throw them off the roof.
And in European countries, such as France, Christianity is even more domesticated.

Also the irony of you complaining about generalizations while generalizing immigrants or Muslims.

I am not generalizing. But I am not pretending that Islam, especially from countries like Afghanistan, is innocuous. Vast majority of the population in countries like Afghanistan or Somalia are Islamists. In Germany, Muslim mass migrants recently protested demanding that a caliphate be imposed in Germany. That there are some secular-minded Muslims, even hailing from those countries, does not change the fact that the vast majority of people streaming in from those countries are incompatible with the West.