*Warning: May contain nuts, Christians and/or both

[bigfield]

How is everybody? One reason that I hope I can convert all of you into card carrying Christians is because it just makes life a joy to be alive.

You're starting to sound like a Linux user.

Which denomination?

systemd.

 

[southernhybrid]

Oh, I forgot. I'm not afraid of death at all 1I, although like many older adults, I do fear pain and disability. Death is sometimes the only thing that relieves us of suffering. I've watched many people die over the course of my career. Sometimes it's very peaceful and the person gradually fades away surrounded by friends and families. Sometimes it's brutal with long bouts of pain, confusion and restlessness. It's especially sad when there are no friends or family members there to provide comfort and support. We're all gonna die. It's part of life. There is nothing to fear. The universe existed long before any of us were born, and after we're gone, we will never know what we might have missed, because we will no longer exist. It's best to try and enjoy the short time that we have as living beings.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Which denomination?

systemd.

I see a holy war coming on.....

Wishful thinkers you call us. Yes! And it is great fun.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality of happiness, and by no means a necessity of life." - GEORGE BERNARD SHAW

 

[hurtinbuckaroo]

Which denomination?

systemd.

Die, heretic!

 

[Sarpedon]

I used to be a card carrying christian, and my life was NOT a joy to be alive. I'm happier now.

 

[1ICrying]

And when you say viewpoint, you mean your own opinion with a caveat that you are untrained in about the dozen categories you are about to share opinions in?

Sorry Higgins. I didn't know that I needed training before I share my opinions here. Also, can you please elaborate on the dozen categories. I just know that I am here on Free Thought, in the religion section, sharing my religious views.

 

[1ICrying]

More food for thought:

Bible:
"It will come about in all the land," Declares the LORD, "That two parts in it will be cut off and perish; But the third will be left in it. 9 "And I will bring the third part through the fire, Refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested They will call on My name, And I will answer them; I will say, 'They are My people,' And they will say, 'The LORD is my God.'"


Adherent estimates in 2012 (Wikipedia)
Religion Adherents Percentage
Christianity 2.4 billion 33%

Seems a third of the World is Christian - so checks out.

I'd like to add also, regarding Noah's Ark - there is nothing unsea worthy about it. It was boat shaped. 300 cubits long and 50 cubits wide (in the middle). Nothing says it was square or round - it was boat shape.

 

[1ICrying]

One more thought.

The Hittites - at first the only known mention of them was in the Bible (and all the skeptics scoffed). Then archeologists found more information about the Hittites, so much in fact, that we know all about the Hittites, including their language.

So just another example of us catching up to the knowledge that was first found in the Bible.

Back to the ark: of course you all know, Josephus too talked about the ark. Here is some more info about what he said:

However, the Armenians call this place (Apobaterion) The Place of Descent; for the ark being saved in that place, its remains are shown there by the inhabitants to this day.

The Antiquities of the Jews 1.3.5 (92b)

To paraphrase in my own wording, Josephus, in the 1st-century, says that Noah’s Ark is “over yonder over there. People make pilgrimages to see it.” Or to quote him, “its remains are shown there by the inhabitants to this day.” People knew where Noah’s Ark was in the 1st-century. But then he continues, quoting other historians of the 1st-century that also wrote about the ark:

Now all the writers of barbarian histories make mention of this flood and of this ark; among whom is Berosus the Chaldean; for when he is describing the circumstances of the flood, he goes on thus: – “It is said there is still some part of this ship in Armenia, at the mountain of the Cordyaeans; and that some people carry off pieces of the bitumen, which they take away and use chiefly as amulets for the averting of mischiefs.” Hieronymus the Egyptian, also, who wrote the Phoenician Antiquities, and Mnaseas, and a great many more, make mention of the same. Nay, Nicolaus of Damascas, in his ninety-sixth book, hath a particular relation about them, where he speaks thus: – “There is a great mountain in Armenia, over Minyas, called Baris, upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved; and that one who was carried in an ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. This might be the man about whom Moses, the legislator of the Jews wrote.”

The Antiquities of the Jews 1.3.6

In this paragraph, Josephus references several other historians: Berosus the Chaldean and Mnaseas, who both wrote in the 3rd century BC, Hieronymus the Egyptian (date unknown), and Nicolaus of Damascus, who appears to have written towards the end of the 1st century BC and the beginning of the 1st century AD. And Josephus also adds “and a great many more”. He’s essentially giving citations to support the claim from other historians.

Towards the end of the same chapter, on the age of Noah, he writes this:

Now I have witnesses to what I have said, all those that have written Antiquities, both among the Greeks and barbarians; for even Manetho, who wrote the Egyptian History, and Berosus, who collected the Chaldean Monuments, and Mochus and Hestiaus, and besides these, Hieronymus the Egyptian, and those who composed the Phoenician History, agree to what I here say: Hesiod also, and Hecataeus, Hellanicus, and Acusilaus; and besides these, Ephorus and Nicolaus relate that the ancients lived a thousand years; but as to these matters let everyone look upon them as he thinks fit.

The Antiquities of the Jews 1.3.9.107-108

Here, Josephus gives 11 sources by name and generally refers to more. All the while ending with “but as to these matters let everyone look upon them as he thinks fit.” I.E. Take it for what you will.

 

[Keith&Co.]

And when you say viewpoint, you mean your own opinion with a caveat that you are untrained in about the dozen categories you are about to share opinions in?

Sorry Higgins. I didn't know that I needed training before I share my opinions here. Also, can you please elaborate on the dozen categories. I just know that I am here on Free Thought, in the religion section, sharing my religious views.

You don't exactly NEED training, but it might help if you had a foggy frumping clue about the subject you're sharing your (or someone else's borrowed) opinion on.

For as a famous believer has said:

Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of the stars and even their sizes and distances, . . . and this knowledge he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in the Christian and laugh to scorn." -- St. Augustine,
De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim

After all, 'freethought' does NOT mean 'make shit up, it's just as valid as actual evidence.'

 

[Keith&Co.]

I'd like to add also, regarding Noah's Ark - there is nothing unsea worthy about it.

And that there's a perfect example. You cannot adequately state that as a fact without actually countering the actual arguments for why the Ark would have a seaworthiness value in the negatives.
And being 'boat-shaped' isn't addressing the problems of a wooden vessel that size.

 

[Grendel]

... Since a day is the time that it takes for the earth to spin around (the sun) so to speak

It’s not hard to see why you’re so gullible and naive when it comes to the age of the Earth and ‘Noah’s Ark’

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And when you say viewpoint, you mean your own opinion with a caveat that you are untrained in about the dozen categories you are about to share opinions in?

Sorry Higgins. I didn't know that I needed training before I share my opinions here.

Some people seem to have a mistaken idea that 'all opinions have validity'. They don't, especially when one is going to be opinionating like you are. Actually knowing what you are talking about is somewhat important.

Also, can you please elaborate on the dozen categories.

When you bring up the Ark, you are bringing up a lot of different subjects, from physics to history to structures to evolution to geology to etc...

 

[Worldtraveller]

I'd like to add also, regarding Noah's Ark - there is nothing unsea worthy about it.

And that there's a perfect example. You cannot adequately state that as a fact without actually countering the actual arguments for why the Ark would have a seaworthiness value in the negatives.
And being 'boat-shaped' isn't addressing the problems of a wooden vessel that size.

Yeah. I'm a structural engineer and all I have to say is, and I quote, "Hahahahaa....hahahahahahaa..."

Also this: "Since a day is the time that it takes for the earth to spin around (the sun) so to speak" is so laughably wrong.

If you are going to attempt to persuade people here, you should try to at least have an inkling of that which you speak.

Better to be silent and thought a fool than put words to page and remove all doubt.

 

[Learner]

Noah didn't "design" the ark, if you were to take what it says in the bible, but obviously not by the posts reponding to 1lCrying.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Noah didn't "design" the ark, if you were to take what it says in the bible, but obviously not by the posts reponding to 1lCrying.

No one designed the ark. What it says in the Bible is a bit inadequate for building a massive boat.

'K see... it'll be made out of wood, gopherwood. It'll be yea tall by yee wide and about yoo deep. Also, put a window at the top. Better hurry, my self-indignant murder rage boner is starting to wear off.

 

[Keith&Co.]

... Since a day is the time that it takes for the earth to spin around (the sun) so to speak

It’s not hard to see why you’re so gullible and naive when it comes to the age of the Earth and ‘Noah’s Ark’

Well, I JUST taught a unit on the Leap Second, and he's not ENTIRELY wrong. A 'day' is the time it takes the Earth to spin around the Earth, just a little over 360 degrees, to where the sun is overhead once more, which includes a tiny portion the distance covered by Earth's orbit around the sun, which is why it has to rotate more than one complete circle for a day's cycle, so we are going 'around the sun' each day, in little 1/365.25ths increments of the orbit. If it weren't for the orbital motion 'around the sun' a single day would be exactly a 360 degree turn, and would last about 23 hours, fifty six minutes, and four seconds.


But really, no. That's a stupid and shallow way to phrase it unless you're going to put about a dozen caveats in the phrasing to ensure you're understood rather than just look stupid.

 

[Learner]

No one designed the ark. What it says in the Bible is a bit inadequate for building a massive boat.

'K see... it'll be made out of wood, gopherwood. It'll be yea tall by yee wide and about yoo deep. Also, put a window at the top. Better hurry, my self-indignant murder rage boner is starting to wear off.

I am in some agreement to the posts that sort of says, "no man" (on his own) could build such a boat, but then there is in the bible, that God-guiding-ingredient.

 

[Keith&Co.]

No one designed the ark. What it says in the Bible is a bit inadequate for building a massive boat.

'K see... it'll be made out of wood, gopherwood. It'll be yea tall by yee wide and about yoo deep. Also, put a window at the top. Better hurry, my self-indignant murder rage boner is starting to wear off.

I am in some agreement to the posts that sort of says, "no man" (on his own) could build such a boat, but then there is in the bible, that God-guiding-ingredient.

The big problem being, the more you depend on a miracle to explain the construction, safe operation, and safe docking of the Ark, and sourcing of food/water, and the removal of wastes, one HAS to wonder why God picked such an oversight-intensive method of wiping out so many, many living things in order to fail to achieve His goal.
Couldn't He just have snapped his fingers and kill off all the wicked? And the kids who were not yet wicked but were going to grow up to be wicked? And either kill or release all the livestock that was going to starve to death in the paddock because the wicked/pre-wicked caretakers were deaded?
If nothing else, the shock and awe among the survivors might have satisfied his self-centered need for 'glory,' and he might later have let the Egyptians off lightly when Pharaoh wanted to release the Jewish Slaves.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

No one designed the ark. What it says in the Bible is a bit inadequate for building a massive boat.

'K see... it'll be made out of wood, gopherwood. It'll be yea tall by yee wide and about yoo deep. Also, put a window at the top. Better hurry, my self-indignant murder rage boner is starting to wear off.

I am in some agreement to the posts that sort of says, "no man" (on his own) could build such a boat, but then there is in the bible, that God-guiding-ingredient.

So I see you are abandoning the "what it says in the bible" argument.

 

[Learner]

I am saying the same thing in both posts,.. as its says in the bible, God gave the design and how to go about it - Noah being "instructed".