We are overloading the planet: Now What?

[Loren Pechtel]

I think Infidels will be interested in this, but wasn't sure where to post it. This seemed to be the appropriate thread. The problem of poisonous lead in the atmosphere was about ten times worse than it would have been with only one-tenth the population. The same thing is true of other long-term poisons, and even problems we now know nothing about. Overpopulation is bad, especially with the huge "footprint" technological man insists on.

But why would you expect it not to have taken 10x as long to figure out lead was bad?

Et tu, Loren?

As for "figuring out that lead was bad", I forget: During which part of the 20th century did the ancient Roman Vitrivius live?

Water conducted through earthen pipes is more wholesome than that through lead; indeed that conveyed in lead must be injurious, because from it white lead [PbCO3, lead carbonate] is obtained, and this is said to be injurious to the human system. Hence, if what is generated from it is pernicious, there can be no doubt that itself cannot be a wholesome body. This may be verified by observing the workers in lead, who are of a pallid colour; for in casting lead, the fumes from it fixing on the different members, and daily burning them, destroy the vigour of the blood; water should therefore on no account be conducted in leaden pipes if we are desirous that it should be wholesome. That the flavour of that conveyed in earthen pipes is better, is shewn at our daily meals, for all those whose tables are furnished with silver vessels, nevertheless use those made of earth, from the purity of the flavour being preserved in them.

But they went ahead and used it anyway. Somebody figuring it out doesn't equal wide acceptance.

 

[bilby]

I think Infidels will be interested in this, but wasn't sure where to post it. This seemed to be the appropriate thread. The problem of poisonous lead in the atmosphere was about ten times worse than it would have been with only one-tenth the population. The same thing is true of other long-term poisons, and even problems we now know nothing about. Overpopulation is bad, especially with the huge "footprint" technological man insists on.

But why would you expect it not to have taken 10x as long to figure out lead was bad?

Et tu, Loren?

As for "figuring out that lead was bad", I forget: During which part of the 20th century did the ancient Roman Vitrivius live?

Water conducted through earthen pipes is more wholesome than that through lead; indeed that conveyed in lead must be injurious, because from it white lead [PbCO3, lead carbonate] is obtained, and this is said to be injurious to the human system. Hence, if what is generated from it is pernicious, there can be no doubt that itself cannot be a wholesome body. This may be verified by observing the workers in lead, who are of a pallid colour; for in casting lead, the fumes from it fixing on the different members, and daily burning them, destroy the vigour of the blood; water should therefore on no account be conducted in leaden pipes if we are desirous that it should be wholesome. That the flavour of that conveyed in earthen pipes is better, is shewn at our daily meals, for all those whose tables are furnished with silver vessels, nevertheless use those made of earth, from the purity of the flavour being preserved in them.

But they went ahead and used it anyway. Somebody figuring it out doesn't equal wide acceptance.

And he was right for the wrong reasons.

Lead doesn't "destroy the vigour of the blood" (though acute lead poisoning can lead to anaemia). The neurological effects are of far more importance to health than the hematopoietic ones.

The ancient world is full of medical and healthy living advice, and it's no surprise that some of it (by pure luck) is still valid; Almost none of it, however, is based on sound scientific principles, and none of it should be mistaken for knowledge.

Vitruvius also believed in what would later become the Miasmatic Theory of disease, and thought that bad smells from swampland were the cause of poor health:

For when the morning breezes blow toward the town at sunrise, if they bring with them mist from marshes and, mingled with the mist, the poisonous breath of creatures of the marshes to be wafted into the bodies of the inhabitants, they will make the site unhealthy.

 

[TSwizzle]

Researchers from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) warned the global fertility rate — the number of children born per woman — is plummeting, leaving the world at risk of economic collapse. The problem is particularly acute in wealthy nations. In the UK, the birth rate is predicted to fall to 1.3 children per woman of childbearing age by 2100, well below the replacement level of 2.1 children

Daily Mail

Western Europe is in screwed.

 

[TSwizzle]

Researchers from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME) warned the global fertility rate — the number of children born per woman — is plummeting, leaving the world at risk of economic collapse. The problem is particularly acute in wealthy nations. In the UK, the birth rate is predicted to fall to 1.3 children per woman of childbearing age by 2100, well below the replacement level of 2.1 children

Daily Mail

Western Europe is in screwed.

In the UK, the birth rate is predicted to fall to 1.3 children per woman of childbearing age by 2100, well below the replacement level of 2.1 children

The abottoirs of BPAS will keep the UK population in check at least.

A record 252,122 abortions were recorded in England and Wales in 2022, with Britain's cost of living crisis to blame, according to charities. This figure is about 17 per cent higher than the previous year, itself another record breaker since the Abortion Act was introduced in the 60s. It's equivalent to one in every 50 women in England and Wales between the age of 15 to 44 having a termination.

Daily Mail

Since the native population will not produce children to sustain itself, the job of carrying a child to birth will be outsourced to third world countries.

 

[Elixir]

the native population will not produce children to sustain itself,

B-b-b-but Santa Monica doesn't have that problem, right?
Or ... does it??

 

[Bomb#20]

Daily Mail

Western Europe is in screwed.

In the UK, the birth rate is predicted to fall to 1.3 children per woman of childbearing age by 2100, well below the replacement level of 2.1 children

The abottoirs of BPAS will keep the UK population in check at least.

Daily Mail

Since the native population will not produce children to sustain itself, the job of carrying a child to birth will be outsourced to third world countries.

And at the same time AI is going to take all our jobs.

 

[TSwizzle]

Daily Mail

Western Europe is in screwed.

In the UK, the birth rate is predicted to fall to 1.3 children per woman of childbearing age by 2100, well below the replacement level of 2.1 children

The abottoirs of BPAS will keep the UK population in check at least.

Daily Mail

Since the native population will not produce children to sustain itself, the job of carrying a child to birth will be outsourced to third world countries.

And at the same time AI is going to take all our jobs.

Something has to give. I have a feeling there will be substantial unrest in the not too distant future.

 

[TSwizzle]

The US is playing its part too;

Abortions are on the rise in the United States, despite bans that have taken effect in more than a dozen states since the US Supreme Court’s Dobbs decision that revoked the federal right to abortion in June 2022. There were more than 1 million abortions in the US in 2023, the highest rate in more than a decade and a 10% jump from 2020, according to a report released Tuesday by the Guttmacher Institute, a research and policy organization focused on sexual and reproductive health that supports abortion rights. The new reports from Guttmacher estimate abortion trends based on responses from a sample of abortion providers in the US. They probably undercount the number of abortions in the US, as the data does not include abortions that happen outside of the formal health care system or medication abortions that were sent to people in states where abortion is banned.

CNN

 

[steve_bank]

Beep Beep Beep
Yes commissioner Gordon, this is Batman.
Batman, the Tswizzler is back in Gotham City, and he is up to his old tricks.
We'll be right there commissioner.

Robbin, to the bat poles.

What next? What we are seeing right now.

Dramatic reporting of natural disasters with dramatic background music and gravitas. Progressive politicians posturing and enacting measures that are going to have little effect in the long run certainly not in the short term. .

Consumption will continue to grow. The majority of people will keep om dong what they are doing. A hot topic in the news is the cost of tickets for concerts and the cost of Memorial Day barbecue.

For decades the Army engineers tried to control the Mississippi River and failed. The govt ended up buying out land on the river prone to flooding.

Some US coastal area will become uninhabitable.

 

[bilby]

For decades the Army engineers tried to control the Mississippi River and failed.

Are you sure? They seem to be largely succeeding, and they certainly haven't yet thrown in the towel.

https://www.mvd.usace.army.mil/

 

[IIDB Staff]

Please refrain from discussing Trump in this thread. Let's stay focused on the topic of overloading the planet and potential solutions.

 

[TSwizzle]

Birth rates have dropped sharply in some of the world's richest states and are likely to stay low as economic worries leave people weighing the costs of having children, a report from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said. The total fertility rate dropped to 1.5 children per woman in 2022 from 3.3 in 1960 on average across OECD countries, the report said

News

Just need to stop the poor from having kids and the problem sorts itself.

 

[bilby]

Birth rates have dropped sharply in some of the world's richest states and are likely to stay low as economic worries leave people weighing the costs of having children, a report from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said. The total fertility rate dropped to 1.5 children per woman in 2022 from 3.3 in 1960 on average across OECD countries, the report said

News

Just need to stop the poor from having kids and the problem sorts itself.

That's easy to do - just make them less poor.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Birth rates have dropped sharply in some of the world's richest states and are likely to stay low as economic worries leave people weighing the costs of having children, a report from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said. The total fertility rate dropped to 1.5 children per woman in 2022 from 3.3 in 1960 on average across OECD countries, the report said

News

Just need to stop the poor from having kids and the problem sorts itself.

That's easy to do - just make them less poor.

The average billionaire emits a million times more grernhouse gases than the average person.

A billionaire emits a million times more greenhouse gases than the average person | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

But the problem is... those damned poor people.

 

[Swammerdami]

The average billionaire emits a million times more grernhouse gases than the average person.

A billionaire emits a million times more greenhouse gases than the average person | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

But the problem is... those damned poor people.

If the billionaires own 10% of ExxonMobil and 10% of Procter&Gamble, then the linked article includes 10% of those corporations' emissions in "billionaires' emissions." Does that seem remotely sensical?

If it does seem sensical, I just give up. Cancel my subscription please.

 

[thebeave]

Birth rates have dropped sharply in some of the world's richest states and are likely to stay low as economic worries leave people weighing the costs of having children, a report from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said. The total fertility rate dropped to 1.5 children per woman in 2022 from 3.3 in 1960 on average across OECD countries, the report said

News

Just need to stop the poor from having kids and the problem sorts itself.

That's easy to do - just make them less poor.

The average billionaire emits a million times more grernhouse gases than the average person.

A billionaire emits a million times more greenhouse gases than the average person | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

But the problem is... those damned poor people.

Says the guy who is employed by one of the wealthiest billionaires on planet Earth...

 

[Swammerdami]

The human population is much too high; this is responsible for many of the problems we face, including climate change, pollution, loss of biodiversity, and more. Total insect population is estimated to be only half what it was a half-century ago. Coral-reef destruction and other degradation have affected ocean ecology; in large areas of the ocean once dominated by fish, jellyfish have taken over as apex predator.

I'll mention just two other facts that showed up in the news today.

(1) Microplastics have been detected in human penises and testes; this may be a cause of erectile dysfunction.

Our study revealed the presence of microplastics in all canine and human testes, with significant inter-individual variability. Mean total microplastic levels were 122.63 µg/g in dogs and 328.44 µg/g in humans.

With 1/8 the population, the average human would just produce eight times as much plastic.

(2) The Mekong River is the 12th longest river in the world; that river houses the world's largest inland fishery; the Mekong Delta is unusually fertile and is a major source of rice and fruit (especially durian!) But the river has changed its character dramatically in the last few years. Those changes have several causes, all man-made. Dams in the long part of the river controlled by China are a major problem, changing the high-water/low-water cycle.

With 1/8 the population, China would build just as many dams. It would need the electricity since the average Chinese person would own 8 times as many EVs, and take 8 times as many trips..

The views of "Overpopulation denier" shown above may be slightly caricatured. But not by much.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Birth rates have dropped sharply in some of the world's richest states and are likely to stay low as economic worries leave people weighing the costs of having children, a report from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said. The total fertility rate dropped to 1.5 children per woman in 2022 from 3.3 in 1960 on average across OECD countries, the report said

News

Just need to stop the poor from having kids and the problem sorts itself.

That's easy to do - just make them less poor.

The average billionaire emits a million times more grernhouse gases than the average person.

A billionaire emits a million times more greenhouse gases than the average person | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

But the problem is... those damned poor people.

Says the guy who is employed by one of the wealthiest billionaires on planet Earth...

1. So I'm not allosed to criticize my employer? Uh OK.
2. Yeah and I'm still not producing as much pollution as them. Your point?
3. Entirely irrelevant to the reality of the situation.

 

[thebeave]

Birth rates have dropped sharply in some of the world's richest states and are likely to stay low as economic worries leave people weighing the costs of having children, a report from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said. The total fertility rate dropped to 1.5 children per woman in 2022 from 3.3 in 1960 on average across OECD countries, the report said

News

Just need to stop the poor from having kids and the problem sorts itself.

That's easy to do - just make them less poor.

The average billionaire emits a million times more grernhouse gases than the average person.

A billionaire emits a million times more greenhouse gases than the average person | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

But the problem is... those damned poor people.

Says the guy who is employed by one of the wealthiest billionaires on planet Earth...

1. So I'm not allosed to criticize my employer? Uh OK.
2. Yeah and I'm still not producing as much pollution as them. Your point?
3. Entirely irrelevant to the reality of the situation.

Just teasin' dude. You have my approval to complain about billionaires while simultaneously working for one and making him even richer.

Now, if you end up buying a Tesla too, we're going to have to have a little talk...

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Birth rates have dropped sharply in some of the world's richest states and are likely to stay low as economic worries leave people weighing the costs of having children, a report from the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development said. The total fertility rate dropped to 1.5 children per woman in 2022 from 3.3 in 1960 on average across OECD countries, the report said

News

Just need to stop the poor from having kids and the problem sorts itself.

That's easy to do - just make them less poor.

The average billionaire emits a million times more grernhouse gases than the average person.

A billionaire emits a million times more greenhouse gases than the average person | Oxfam International

www.oxfam.org

But the problem is... those damned poor people.

Says the guy who is employed by one of the wealthiest billionaires on planet Earth...

1. So I'm not allosed to criticize my employer? Uh OK.
2. Yeah and I'm still not producing as much pollution as them. Your point?
3. Entirely irrelevant to the reality of the situation.

Just teasin' dude. You have my approval to complain about billionaires while simultaneously working for one and making him even richer.

Now, if you end up buying a Tesla too, we're going to have to have a little talk...

I'm supporting a president who's for raising taxes on billionaires. It's not nearly as hypocritical as you're making it out to be. And nope, never buying a Tesla, Elon Musk is a shithead.