Well... it's Trump... again. #47, here we go.

[Elixir]

While I don't think that there should be widespread "official" consequences for such actions (or else voting wouldn't happen at all), I do think there are some things we should definitely remember how people voted

If a person wishes to not disclose who they voted for we should not force such disclosure.
If they announce their support for or opposition to a candidate, that makes their choice (or opinion) fair game for criticism.

 

[Jarhyn]

While I don't think that there should be widespread "official" consequences for such actions (or else voting wouldn't happen at all), I do think there are some things we should definitely remember how people voted

If a person wishes to not disclose who they voted for we should not force such disclosure.
If they announce their support for or opposition to a candidate, that makes their choice (or opinion) fair game for criticism.

Well, we can't remember anything about people's votes that they don't either make apparent or outright talk about.

Thankfully for us, most people have made it pretty obvious.

 

[Elixir]

Thankfully for us, most people have made it pretty obvious.

Yeah it’s the ones who won’t say who are scary. We should lock them up and beat them until they spill the beans.
/sarcasm

 

[bilby]

It’s the collective action of people.

Jason is a libertarian. He believes (apparently genuinely, despite his apparent intelligence) that the collective action of people is a myth.

Which is like believing that as a raindrop cannot damage a building, nor can a flood.

Perhaps the importance of scale and the nature of emergent phenomena should be taught at school.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Thankfully for us, most people have made it pretty obvious.

Yeah it’s the ones who won’t say who are scary. We should lock them up and beat them until they spill the beans.
/sarcasm

I get the humor, but I was told this would all be addressed in regional re-education camps, located in the Bay Area, outside Boulder, on-campus at Ann Arbor and Oberlin, and perhaps in community theater buildings in Provincetown. I read about this in Mother Jones, didn't everyone? We're talking an 8-week course to reintroduce the MAGA faithful to the modern world. Communal living, a plant-based diet, group projects like windmill installations, nightly sing-alongs (heavy on the Judy Collins, Sabrina Carpenter, and Swifty), RuPaul Story hour with readings from Kahlil Gibran, From Hope to History, It Takes a Village, and The Audacity of Hope. Group encounter activities, where participants are encouraged to admit that they voted for Trump, and how they have come to regret it. Primal therapy sessions where participants are encouraged to shriek at large photos of Trump. Cinnabons served to graduates by transgender undocumented immigrants, followed by a group hug and a non-Bible benediction from a Unitarian minister.
I mean, it sounds like such fun that I'm half-debating pretending to be a recovering Trumpanzee, just to take part. If they add bonfires and smores, I'll be damned if I won't.
This could all start as soon as 1/2027, depending on the midterms.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It’s the collective action of people.

Jason is a libertarian.

Anarchist might be a better word for him.

He believes (apparently genuinely, despite his apparent intelligence) that the collective action of people is a myth.

Well, seeing 4/5's of his posts claim 'I didn't say that' or asserts a ridiculous amount of snark regarding someone else's position, it is hard to know what he actually believes.

 

[Elixir]

it is hard to know what he actually believes

THAT IS what most libberpublicans believe.
They can blather away about random perceived shortcomings of their own misperceptions of others’ positions, and never stand for anything themselves that needs defending.
I see them as minor non- participant parasites.

 

[Jarhyn]

it is hard to know what he actually believes

THAT IS what most libberpublicans believe.
They can blather away about random perceived shortcomings of their own misperceptions of others’ positions, and never stand for anything themselves that needs defending.
I see them as minor non- participant parasites.

The problem is that the bulk of them have supported conservative aims of preventing change and concentrating government into a kingdom because ultimately that's what libertarianism moves to.

 

[Patooka]

it is hard to know what he actually believes

THAT IS what most libberpublicans believe.
They can blather away about random perceived shortcomings of their own misperceptions of others’ positions, and never stand for anything themselves that needs defending.
I see them as minor non- participant parasites.

The problem is that the bulk of them have supported conservative aims of preventing change and concentrating government into a kingdom because ultimately that's what libertarianism moves to.

It's not that much of a problem - it's a very obvious bad faith argument. JH is hardly unique in this. Constantly criticize on side, remain silent about the obvious failings of the other side and then act indignant when someone points out your obvious bias. Dave Rubin, Jimmy Dore, Russell Brand and Tim Pool all started their grifts this way before they doubled down on being completely MAGA. Hell, I've even described JH's bad faith arguments before. It's picking a side with the added cowardice of a adding just enough ambiguity so as to not be held accountable.

Libertarianism is also a bullshit philosophy. You put 5 "libertarians" in a room an ask them what that means and within 2 minutes you'll receive 16 different and diametrically opposed definitions. It's a cunt's way of being contrarian but being too chickenshit to own it.

 

[ZiprHead]

A better representation.

 

[ZiprHead]

Uh huh...

 

[ideologyhunter]

Yep. They wouldn't give him a mission named after Apollo -- but maybe Hypnos.

 

[Patooka]

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

Holy fuck me sideways with a rusty railspike but that explains so much. A libertarian in 'bama. I have wasted so much time over the years.

 

[Elixir]

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

There’s something unsettling about seeing “Alabama” and “swung” in the same sentence.
I didn’t know that was Jason’s locale, but it is an explanatory datum. It makes me want to give him a little slack. Maybe libbertard idiocy is as far left as he can safely venture.

 

[robnisch]

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

So, I described his change in my first post on this particular conversation. He used to not be interested in deploying the military.

No, he used to SAY that he was.

Now he has deployed it to Venezuela and Iran. That is a change.

The only change is that he decided he no longer needed to fool you and people like you.

Perhaps one that few would notice, since I seem to be in the minority that is against bombing poor brown people in foreign countries,

I think you would have to be crazy to think you are in a minority on that question.

but it is a change.

No, it's just evidence that he lied.

I can understand why you prefer to think that he changed, rather than to accept that he duped you. But he duped you.

Quit projecting on to me.

It’s okay, no one is judging your gullibility in misjudging Trump.

Just because you voted for him doesn't mean anyone else here did.

Oh, please. At least put something aside from hurt feelings into your ‘burns.’

I’m going to write something that a lot of people will find outrageous but here goes:

Voting for a third party candidate when one of the candidates is as horrible as Donald Trump is effectively voting for Donald Trump. It gives the same result as voting for him: DJT is POTUS although every sentient human being on the planet knows that was a disaster the first time.

Having a hissy fit because a black! woman! isn’t your favorite candidate and therefore voting third party is voting fir Donald J Trump.

People need to grow the fuck up and chose the best option from among those nominated by D or R. Doing otherwise guarantees the worst possible candidate is chosen.

Written by someone who proudly, arrogantly has voted 3rd party because she didn’t like the major party candidates. Several times. And who deeply deeply regrets it. The major party candidates did not learn their lesson by my little ego trip and they won’t learn anything from yours either.

Grow the fuck up and become involved in your party of choice at the local
Level and work as hard as you can to elect the least bad major party candidate for POTUS. Otherwise, the worst candidate will win.

Politics is about compromise and making hard choices, sometimes the least bad choice because all we have are bad choices.

Work for third party candidates if you must at the local level and do it for a long, long time. Eventually the third party might become viable on the national stage but I won’t live to see that. You might not either. I can cry with you about it all day long but that won’t change a damn thing.

You really should make that point to the Biden voters who didn't vote for Kamala. Apparently a lot of people who voted for Biden couldn't handle a South Asian Woman pretending to be Black. I think the few who vote third party aren't to blame, when Biden's own support failed to show up. Biden supporters who couldn't handle a non-white woman. Biden supporters being racist and sexist. Democrats.

One thing that idiots tend to fail to understand, or wish to obfuscate away when they are a part of it and don't want to cop to their responsibility for that part: a vote is a substantive action.

It doesn't matter if your vote is "destined" to win or lose, your vote is you making 100% of the effort you can in that moment to realize an outcome.

I think anyone giving a 100% effort to realize an outcome should be held to responsibility for that outcome, whether or not it fails.

Let's play that game. My vote is making 100% of the effort I can to have Chase Oliver elected.

It’s the collective action of people.

Jason is a libertarian.

Anarchist might be a better word for him.

He believes (apparently genuinely, despite his apparent intelligence) that the collective action of people is a myth.

Well, seeing 4/5's of his posts claim 'I didn't say that' or asserts a ridiculous amount of snark regarding someone else's position, it is hard to know what he actually believes.

I have posted my position on many issues many times. Those posts don't interest you. You are far more interested in "I say Jason believes X" instead of Jason saying "I believe Y".

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

Holy fuck me sideways with a rusty railspike but that explains so much. A libertarian in 'bama. I have wasted so much time over the years.

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

There’s something unsettling about seeing “Alabama” and “swung” in the same sentence.
I didn’t know that was Jason’s locale, but it is an explanatory datum. It makes me want to give him a little slack. Maybe libbertard idiocy is as far left as he can safely venture.

Yeah, I moved from California to Alabama several years ago. Is that supposed to indicate something? What exactly are you saying? Be precise.

 

[Toni]

So, I described his change in my first post on this particular conversation. He used to not be interested in deploying the military.

No, he used to SAY that he was.

Now he has deployed it to Venezuela and Iran. That is a change.

The only change is that he decided he no longer needed to fool you and people like you.

Perhaps one that few would notice, since I seem to be in the minority that is against bombing poor brown people in foreign countries,

I think you would have to be crazy to think you are in a minority on that question.

but it is a change.

No, it's just evidence that he lied.

I can understand why you prefer to think that he changed, rather than to accept that he duped you. But he duped you.

Quit projecting on to me.

It’s okay, no one is judging your gullibility in misjudging Trump.

Just because you voted for him doesn't mean anyone else here did.

Oh, please. At least put something aside from hurt feelings into your ‘burns.’

I’m going to write something that a lot of people will find outrageous but here goes:

Voting for a third party candidate when one of the candidates is as horrible as Donald Trump is effectively voting for Donald Trump. It gives the same result as voting for him: DJT is POTUS although every sentient human being on the planet knows that was a disaster the first time.

Having a hissy fit because a black! woman! isn’t your favorite candidate and therefore voting third party is voting fir Donald J Trump.

People need to grow the fuck up and chose the best option from among those nominated by D or R. Doing otherwise guarantees the worst possible candidate is chosen.

Written by someone who proudly, arrogantly has voted 3rd party because she didn’t like the major party candidates. Several times. And who deeply deeply regrets it. The major party candidates did not learn their lesson by my little ego trip and they won’t learn anything from yours either.

Grow the fuck up and become involved in your party of choice at the local
Level and work as hard as you can to elect the least bad major party candidate for POTUS. Otherwise, the worst candidate will win.

Politics is about compromise and making hard choices, sometimes the least bad choice because all we have are bad choices.

Work for third party candidates if you must at the local level and do it for a long, long time. Eventually the third party might become viable on the national stage but I won’t live to see that. You might not either. I can cry with you about it all day long but that won’t change a damn thing.

You really should make that point to the Biden voters who didn't vote for Kamala. Apparently a lot of people who voted for Biden couldn't handle a South Asian Woman pretending to be Black. I think the few who vote third party aren't to blame, when Biden's own support failed to show up. Biden supporters who couldn't handle a non-white woman. Biden supporters being racist and sexist. Democrats.

I agree that voters of all political stripes hate the idea of voting for a woman, any woman. Your ‘pretending to be black’ attempted dig demonstrates the multiple layers of your ignorance.

I know people who wouldn’t vote for Harris because she had been a prosecutor. I know people who felt she wasn’t progressive enough. I know people who were dismayed at Biden stepping away—I was because history has demonstrated that it takes an old white man to make enough voters comfortable enough to vote against Trump. But I voted for Harris even though she was not my ideal candidate just as Biden had not been my ideal candidate.

One thing I’ve learned over the years to consider when choosing which candidates to support is who they surround themselves with, what sort of judgement they’ve shown and very essentially: who they are likely to appoint to their cabinet and other important positions of authority and influence. While I understand the appeal of the ‘outsider’ and the ‘fresh political face,’ I’m old enough to recognize that such people do not bring with them people who are competent, who have the knowledge base and the demonstrated belief in and understanding for and even reverence for our Constitution. This is not amateur hour. Amateur hour is both of Trump’s terns, deeply colored with extreme corruption and incompetence.

For a long while, I had assumed you are relatively young but I believe you are my age older. You certainly are old enough to recognize that while one vote rarely decides any election, failing to recognize the stakes of another Trump presidency and failing to do everything in your power as a voter to prevent that from happening by voting for the only viable candidate to prevent Trump from taking office again.

Your little temper tantrum is despicable. Trump’s bloody corrupt war in Iran and on the US Constitution is partly on your hands.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It’s the collective action of people.

Jason is a libertarian.

Anarchist might be a better word for him.

He believes (apparently genuinely, despite his apparent intelligence) that the collective action of people is a myth.

Well, seeing 4/5's of his posts claim 'I didn't say that' or asserts a ridiculous amount of snark regarding someone else's position, it is hard to know what he actually believes.

I have posted my position on many issues many times.

Oh several I bet. 25, 50, maybe even 100 posts worth.

My 4/5's isn't an exaggeration.

Those posts don't interest you. You are far more interested in "I say Jason believes X" instead of Jason saying "I believe Y".

To be honest, I really have no idea what you believe, other than you don't like government authoritty.

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

Holy fuck me sideways with a rusty railspike but that explains so much. A libertarian in 'bama. I have wasted so much time over the years.

I am absolutely sure my vote in ALABAMA swung the entire election.

There’s something unsettling about seeing “Alabama” and “swung” in the same sentence.
I didn’t know that was Jason’s locale, but it is an explanatory datum. It makes me want to give him a little slack. Maybe libbertard idiocy is as far left as he can safely venture.

Yeah, I moved from California to Alabama several years ago.

On purpose?

Yes, I know people on occasion move from California... they leave California having lived in a shack, and move to a 10 bedroom mansion in Phoenix for about the same price.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I’m going to write something that a lot of people will find outrageous but here goes:

Voting for a third party candidate when one of the candidates is as horrible as Donald Trump is effectively voting for Donald Trump. It gives the same result as voting for him: DJT is POTUS although every sentient human being on the planet knows that was a disaster the first time.

Having a hissy fit because a black! woman! isn’t your favorite candidate and therefore voting third party is voting fir Donald J Trump.

People need to grow the fuck up and chose the best option from among those nominated by D or R. Doing otherwise guarantees the worst possible candidate is chosen.

Written by someone who proudly, arrogantly has voted 3rd party because she didn’t like the major party candidates. Several times. And who deeply deeply regrets it. The major party candidates did not learn their lesson by my little ego trip and they won’t learn anything from yours either.

Grow the fuck up and become involved in your party of choice at the local
Level and work as hard as you can to elect the least bad major party candidate for POTUS. Otherwise, the worst candidate will win.

Politics is about compromise and making hard choices, sometimes the least bad choice because all we have are bad choices.

Work for third party candidates if you must at the local level and do it for a long, long time. Eventually the third party might become viable on the national stage but I won’t live to see that. You might not either. I can cry with you about it all day long but that won’t change a damn thing.

You really should make that point to the Biden voters who didn't vote for Kamala. Apparently a lot of people who voted for Biden couldn't handle a South Asian Woman pretending to be Black. I think the few who vote third party aren't to blame, when Biden's own support failed to show up. Biden supporters who couldn't handle a non-white woman. Biden supporters being racist and sexist. Democrats.

I agree that voters of all political stripes hate the idea of voting for a woman, any woman. Your ‘pretending to be black’ attempted dig demonstrates the multiple layers of your ignorance.

I know people who wouldn’t vote for Harris because she had been a prosecutor. I know people who felt she wasn’t progressive enough. I know people who were dismayed at Biden stepping away—I was because history has demonstrated that it takes an old white man to make enough voters comfortable enough to vote against Trump. But I voted for Harris even though she was not my ideal candidate just as Biden had not been my ideal candidate.

One thing I’ve learned over the years to consider when choosing which candidates to support is who they surround themselves with, what sort of judgement they’ve shown and very essentially: who they are likely to appoint to their cabinet and other important positions of authority and influence. While I understand the appeal of the ‘outsider’ and the ‘fresh political face,’ I’m old enough to recognize that such people do not bring with them people who are competent, who have the knowledge base and the demonstrated belief in and understanding for and even reverence for our Constitution. This is not amateur hour. Amateur hour is both of Trump’s terns, deeply colored with extreme corruption and incompetence.

For a long while, I had assumed you are relatively young but I believe you are my age older. You certainly are old enough to recognize that while one vote rarely decides any election, failing to recognize the stakes of another Trump presidency and failing to do everything in your power as a voter to prevent that from happening by voting for the only viable candidate to prevent Trump from taking office again.

Your little temper tantrum is despicable. Trump’s bloody corrupt war in Iran and on the US Constitution is partly on your hands.

Saying "voters of all political stripes" deflects from the fact that Harris underperfomed Biden in every single county in the country. If she had gotten Biden's voters, she'd have won. If she'd gotten 90% of Biden's voters, she'd have won. She underperfomed so badly that Trump actually won the popular vote. Because Biden's supporters didn't turn out for her.

You earlier posted that the voters didn't turn out because she's a non-white woman, although for reasons unknown you called her "black". When I pointed out it was the lack of support from Biden's voters, you then deflected to "she had been a prosecutor" or "wasn't progressive enough". Pick a lane.

 

[Toni]

I’m going to write something that a lot of people will find outrageous but here goes:

Voting for a third party candidate when one of the candidates is as horrible as Donald Trump is effectively voting for Donald Trump. It gives the same result as voting for him: DJT is POTUS although every sentient human being on the planet knows that was a disaster the first time.

Having a hissy fit because a black! woman! isn’t your favorite candidate and therefore voting third party is voting fir Donald J Trump.

People need to grow the fuck up and chose the best option from among those nominated by D or R. Doing otherwise guarantees the worst possible candidate is chosen.

Written by someone who proudly, arrogantly has voted 3rd party because she didn’t like the major party candidates. Several times. And who deeply deeply regrets it. The major party candidates did not learn their lesson by my little ego trip and they won’t learn anything from yours either.

Grow the fuck up and become involved in your party of choice at the local
Level and work as hard as you can to elect the least bad major party candidate for POTUS. Otherwise, the worst candidate will win.

Politics is about compromise and making hard choices, sometimes the least bad choice because all we have are bad choices.

Work for third party candidates if you must at the local level and do it for a long, long time. Eventually the third party might become viable on the national stage but I won’t live to see that. You might not either. I can cry with you about it all day long but that won’t change a damn thing.

You really should make that point to the Biden voters who didn't vote for Kamala. Apparently a lot of people who voted for Biden couldn't handle a South Asian Woman pretending to be Black. I think the few who vote third party aren't to blame, when Biden's own support failed to show up. Biden supporters who couldn't handle a non-white woman. Biden supporters being racist and sexist. Democrats.

I agree that voters of all political stripes hate the idea of voting for a woman, any woman. Your ‘pretending to be black’ attempted dig demonstrates the multiple layers of your ignorance.

I know people who wouldn’t vote for Harris because she had been a prosecutor. I know people who felt she wasn’t progressive enough. I know people who were dismayed at Biden stepping away—I was because history has demonstrated that it takes an old white man to make enough voters comfortable enough to vote against Trump. But I voted for Harris even though she was not my ideal candidate just as Biden had not been my ideal candidate.

One thing I’ve learned over the years to consider when choosing which candidates to support is who they surround themselves with, what sort of judgement they’ve shown and very essentially: who they are likely to appoint to their cabinet and other important positions of authority and influence. While I understand the appeal of the ‘outsider’ and the ‘fresh political face,’ I’m old enough to recognize that such people do not bring with them people who are competent, who have the knowledge base and the demonstrated belief in and understanding for and even reverence for our Constitution. This is not amateur hour. Amateur hour is both of Trump’s terns, deeply colored with extreme corruption and incompetence.

For a long while, I had assumed you are relatively young but I believe you are my age older. You certainly are old enough to recognize that while one vote rarely decides any election, failing to recognize the stakes of another Trump presidency and failing to do everything in your power as a voter to prevent that from happening by voting for the only viable candidate to prevent Trump from taking office again.

Your little temper tantrum is despicable. Trump’s bloody corrupt war in Iran and on the US Constitution is partly on your hands.

Saying "voters of all political stripes" deflects from the fact that Harris underperfomed Biden in every single county in the country. If she had gotten Biden's voters, she'd have won. If she'd gotten 90% of Biden's voters, she'd have won. She underperfomed so badly that Trump actually won the popular vote. Because Biden's supporters didn't turn out for her.

You earlier posted that the voters didn't turn out because she's a non-white woman, although for reasons unknown you called her "black". When I pointed out it was the lack of support from Biden's voters, you then deflected to "she had been a prosecutor" or "wasn't progressive enough". Pick a lane.

How about you work on your reading comprehension? How about you familiarize yourself with the well known concept that multiple factors determine why a candidate does not win any particular voter’s vote, much less across the entire electorate.

The fact is that too many people decided they were not happy with Harris as a candidate so they made other choices that any rational human being would realize would help elect Trump. That includes you. You can rationalize all you want but YOU are part of the reason Trump is now POTUS.

Since you refuse to educate yourself, Kamala Harris’s mother is Iyengar, a Tamil speaking Hindu minority born in India who immigrated in 1958. Her father is a black man from Jamaica who immigrated to the US in 1961. Harrison is of both Asian American and African American heritage.