• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Were Russia and US ever allies? (Split from How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?)

No, you give me a break.
You cannot compare Ukraine to Russia. Ukraine is a shitty country used by NATO to attack and destroy/weaken Russia. Russia is defending against NATO who is the aggressor here.
No. You give us a break. Anything Russia thinks is true is true and anything else is propaganda is not a coherent reasonable stance, NATO exists because USSR, er, Russia has a history of swallowing neighbors. Calling Ukraine a "shitty country" is not rationale for occupation. Russia is as nation among nations. It is not, nor is any country, permitted to determine the validity of neighbor nations.

Russia has a shitty neighbor then Russia should operate in a proper international forum. One nation never has the 'right' to eliminate another nation for being "shitty". One must make a case in the international court rather than acting out. Make a case Russia.
Really? you believe that?
What about Georgia?

Let me refresh your memory about them.
US conducted a coup there, installed a puppet regime and then paid and trained army and then supported their attack on Russia in order to return territories which were never really georgian.
Except that it was Russia who started the war. It's a well-documented fact that Russia attacked first, just like it did in Ukraine, because Putin didn't like the people in these countries choosing their own leaders democratically, instead of having Russian-installed puppets.

Both Georgia and Ukraine are examples of Russian meddling and imperialism.

Of course you can call it unsupported conspiracy theories. Except this is what georgians themselves believe and more importantly what closest allies of Saakashvili say. They literally said "US supported only these people who were openly anti-russian" The only way to get money from State Department in Georgia was to promise to hate Russia.
You've only provided evidence (if you can count some Saakashvili ally's opinion such) for the first claim. But not that there was any condition to "promise to hate Russia", because that kind of stupid-ass conditions don't exist outside Russian propaganda fairy tales.

If United States was supporting people who wanted democracy, and were against Russian meddling, ... good! That's what every sane person should support.

Spring-Summer 2014, ukrainian "government" suddenly starts calling East Ukrainian "separatists" terrorists. That's weird, everybody says, I mean they are obviously separatists, but there were no terrorism involved.
And Russia doesn't want to call the current war a war, but "special military operation". Governments are sometimes idiotic in naming things accurately, because they think that by calling things by their real names gives them credibility. Hence, the war in 2014 was dubbed "anti-terrorist operation". That doesn't change what it actually was, nor does it matter whether the Ukrainian government got the idea from some American diplomat or if they came up with it themselves.

The word "terrorist" is a misnomer, but not in the way you think. Terror is always part of war. The word doesn't make sense except in context of peaceful societies.

Now, back to Georgia. US essentially bought all politicians and government there and ordered them to hate Russia. So they did. Everybody knows that. And it was fucking great, because Police was paid directly by US taxpayers and famous georgian police corruption disappeared. Then war and ass-kicking, then economic sanctions from Russia and subsequent semi-collapse of the economy. Then sane government and semi-normalization of relations with Russia, culminating in Georgia saying "We are not supporting war on Russia"
They have their independence, "Imperialist" Russia does not invade them and the economy is fine. All they had to do is to stop following western orders in their war on Russia.
So Russia invaded Georgia, is in the process of annexing parts of it (South Ossetia), and is threatening to take more if Georgia doesn't give in. Under these circumstances, Georgia doesn't really have a choice but to cut its losses and lick its wounds. Until next time Russia wants something more from them. If someone points a gun at you and tells you to give up your wallet, you'll probably hand over the wallet, but that doesn't mean that the guy isn't a robber.

But you can be damn sure that everyone in Georgia wants Russia to lose this war, hard. Because weak Russia is better for democratic Georgian future. That's why they submitted their application to join the EU ahead of schedule.

Russia does not need US neocon controlled governments on its borders. Yes, I am talking to you, Baltic States!
By "neocon controlled" you mean "independent" and "democratic". :rolleyes:
 
Critical Threats Update.

Reading today's update, it sounds like the nationalists, Russia's scum de la scum are getting vocal. Chechen dog shit, Ramzan Kadyrov is sick of waiting for the Kremlin and calling for a mobilization. In other reporting, he has proposed a draft resolution for a mobilization of all Chechen males 18-26. Of course other governors and propagandists who will have no actual skin in the game are echoing these calls. Those with skin in the game are calling on the oligarchs to fund and fight this senseless war. Moscow citizens are still nearly clueless as to what is going on. They're staring at the Ferris wheel.
What has Putin to say? You remember Putin. That space between the rock and the hard place looks to be getting a bit tighter.
If Russia had called for mobilization last spring, they'd be in a much better position now. Putin might still do it. But it seems that to avoid backlash from the middle classes in Moscow and St. Petersburg, Putin has so far opted for covert mobilization: in select areas like Chechnya and Crimea, more pressure for conscripts to sign up to fight in Ukraine (some reports say that refusal to do so, while legal, is now resulting in mention in their records that they refused to participate and are treasonous), as well as using prisoners. Meanwhile the muscovites can enjoy their ferris wheel without fear of their children being forced into the meat grinder.
 
I don't know. Haven't looked into it. Show me why you think it's Ukraine, and we'll talk.
You must be working in US State Department, cause that's exactly what they said.
Surprising (not really that surprising) lack of interest.
In other words, you got no evidence and want me to do your homework for you? :unsure:
 

Here is a cartoon by David Low - published in the Evening Standard, 21 October 1939 - two months after the pact was signed and a year and seven months before Hitler broke it.

caricatura-pacto-10.jpg
David Low was a very good cartoonist.
 
That seaman's story isn't unique. Here's a captured Russian soldier telling his experience how he got fooled into signing a contract and going to Ukraine:



The recruiters said he wouldn't need to go to Ukraine because "there are other units". But after signing up, surprise motherfucker, there were no spots in Russia so he was sent to Ukraine anyway. After a few weeks of training he was assigned to a tank squad.
 

Respect, though, that takes both balls and a lot of $$ to pull off: enough tickets to guarantee participation, plus a huge layout for the banner.
 
Back
Top Bottom