Were Russia and US ever allies? (Split from How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?)

[fromderinside]

So really you are saying that there is no compromise with Ukraine unless it is destroyed.

Fuck! I told you already, there was one, and you (the west, not Ukraine) fucking rejected it. And you rejected it because your goal (from the get-go) have been to continue this attack on Russia. Nobody cares about stupid idiots in Ukraine. Your fucking generals flat out admit that on TV, it's all about hurting Russia. Do you even watch your own TV with your own assholes in it?

Face it "Mother Russia" is scared of any neighbor bordering it in the same way that I am scared of your little brother eating "my candy" which he bought at the local market.

 

[fromderinside]

No, you give me a break.
You cannot compare Ukraine to Russia. Ukraine is a shitty country used by NATO to attack and destroy/weaken Russia. Russia is defending against NATO who is the aggressor here.

No. You give us a break. Anything Russia thinks is true is true and anything else is propaganda is not a coherent reasonable stance, NATO exists because USSR, er, Russia has a history of swallowing neighbors. Calling Ukraine a "shitty country" is not rationale for occupation. Russia is as nation among nations. It is not, nor is any country, permitted to determine the validity of neighbor nations.

Russia has a shitty neighbor then Russia should operate in a proper international forum. One nation never has the 'right' to eliminate another nation for being "shitty". One must make a case in the international court rather than acting out. Make a case Russia.

 

[Jayjay]

What would convince you? What if I create a video with a similar artifact, by just changing a frame rate on a video with a similarly fast moving object?

go ahead, make my day.

Ok then. A ran a little experiment, and found another video online of a missile strike:



I converted this into a 25 fps video (note, in youtube there is one duplicate frame, which is typical of digital frame rate conversions, which I removed). And for your and other audience's convenience I turned that into a gif and attached here.



Then I played the video back on my laptop 60Hz screen and recorded it with my cellphone at 30fps.

Converted that into a gif also:



As you can see, the missile is faded and duplicated in some frames. And funny enough, this is the same effect we see on the video of the Kharkiv administrative building strike (although there are less frames and the background is muddier, but you can still see the shadow):



Now, concede.

 

[laughing dog]

The notion that NATO is the aggressor in the Russian invasion of Ukraine is so incredibly inane that one wonders about the sanity or intelligence of anyone who believes such utter nonsense. Ukraine is not part of NATO but even if it were, that does not justify the invasion of Ukraine. Nor does paranoia on the part of a shitty two bit autocrat who is using this invasion to divert the public's attention of the decline of the already low standard of living in Russia.

 

[Jayjay]

I know the video, no problem. Happened in the hot phase in 2014. Shit like that happens in the war,

You know nothing. Ukro-scam deliberately targeted civilians and your media said nothing. As far as I am concerned, that event alone justifies immediate full scale invasion and overthrow of their "government"

Russia has done far worse. So is Ukraine entitled to a full-scale invasion of Russia, if they had the ability?

No, Russia has never done worse. Not even in Chechnya.
They never deliberately and openly targeted civilians.

That's patently false and you know it. The Luhansk air strike in 2014 killed 8 people, let's assume they're all civilians. It's trivial to find any number of missile strikes or other attacks from Russia in recent days where civilian death toll exceeds that. For example a month ago in Kharkiv:

17 killed and 32 injured in Russian missile strikes on Kharkiv, 17-18 August 2022 - Ukraine

News and Press Release in English on Ukraine about Protection and Human Rights; published on 19 Aug 2022 by AOAV

reliefweb.int

If shit like this was reason to eradicate an entire country, then Russia should be wiped from the map many times over. Then again, you've said that even inaccuracies in history books are a reason for war, so your bar is probably way lower.

 

[Jayjay]

You said "nazis", but you actually didn't mean any provably nazi elements (such as the Azov battalion, which has some nazi connections), but "Ukrainian". You're just calling any Ukrainian a nazi, even their Jewish president, the same way Ukrainians are calling you guys "orcs" even if you had nothing to do with J.R.R Tolkien's fantasy literature.

In the context of this conflict where one side considers a WW2 nazi their hero we call these people nazis.

So? Russia considers nazi-symphatizers like Ivan Ilyin among its national heroes, but that's no reason to call all Russians nazis.

Ironically, it's Russians who are acting more like nazis while historically denying the connection. People in Ukraine who remember the nazi occupation are saying that Russians are worse.

 

[Jayjay]

Much like the killers in Bucha were given commendations by Putin

No, they were not, Putin did not give any commendations to ukrainains who did that.
(WW1 munition according to ...... UN investigators)

I suggest you learn to use the search functionality. All these dumb arguments of yours, including the "WW1 munitions" were soundly debunked earlier.

I'm beginning to realize that you're [someone] [edited]who very well knows he has no evidence, but you just keep repeating the same arguments over and over again because you think it's funny. Usually I'd find the link for you, but I know you can read, so until you address the actual evidence that Bucha massacre was perpetrated by Russians, I consider the case closed and Russian war crimes an established fact. In other words, argue your case with logic and evidence, or shut the fuck up with these empty assertions.

 

[Jayjay]

No, I have a knack of doubting Russian propaganda

Really?
Who is shelling Zaporozh'e Nuclear Plant?

I don't know. Haven't looked into it. Show me why you think it's Ukraine, and we'll talk.

It seems obvious though that at least some of the shelling came from Russian side:

Russia tells UN inspectors rocket performed '180-degree' flip to land at Zaporizhzhia plant

Kremlin expert insists the weapon made an about-turn in a bid to convince inspectors it had not been fired from Russian-held land

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Jayjay]

Most German people in late 1930s also though Hitler was the bees knees, and they weren't any dumberer than you or I

Actually, most german people in late 1930s or now for that matter were/are much dumber than me. That's just a statistical fact.
And it's not a fair comparison anyway with me having 1Gbit internet link to all that shit people take with their cellphones, whereas average german from 1930s had nazi controlled radio-papers only.

You and your friends, unlike Germans, have no excuse then. All the data is at your fingertips, yet you're willfully ignorant.

 

[Jayjay]

(According to wikipedia, Kalibr length "varies on variant, from 6.2 m to 8.9 m".)

Do you know how much it costs?

And do you know any confirmed case of russians wasting Kalibr on something which has zero military significance? I know it was believable (to some ukrainians) at the time. But having knowledge of 6 months of russian tactics one has to conclude that it was clearly a fake. And again, video is 100% fake no matter what.

The evidence that it was a Kalibr missile is overwhelming. That trumps the speculation about the military worthiness of the target, because we know for a fact that it was hit, and that it was missiles from Russia that Ukraine doesn't even possess. And it was the city's main administrative building, a valuable target if you want to show your power. As for another case where Russia fired Kalibr missiles in city center in Vinnytsia, 28 dead, including children (which should prove that the targets were not military):

Vinnytsia missile strikes - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And you do realize, that I could use the same argument to disprove that Ukraine hit the Luhansk city hall in 2014? "Ukraine doesn't hit non-military targets, therefore it wasn't Ukraine". But we know it was Ukraine from other evidence, so that's bullshit. Same here.

 

[Jayjay]

War will end when your side leaves Ukraine.
Again, piece of shit Elensky was ready to accept russian proposal but his Superiors ordered him not to.

Who is this Elensky?

Barbos, our resident anti-war activist, has such disdain for Russia's special military operation, that even typing the letter Z brings him unbearable pain and remorse. I think we need to be mindful of his feelings.

 

[barbos]

War will end when your side leaves Ukraine.
Again, piece of shit Elensky was ready to accept russian proposal but his Superiors ordered him not to.

Who is this Elensky?

Barbos, our resident anti-war activist, has such disdain for Russia's special military operation, that even typing the letter Z brings him unbearable pain and remorse. I think we need to be mindful of his feelings.

No. I am just following EU laws which banned the last letter of the Latin alphabet.

 

[barbos]

The evidence that it was a Kalibr missile is overwhelming.

Says who? I don't really care for that. Just show me how changing frame rate of the video can make it dissappear.

 

[barbos]

And you do realize, that I could use the same argument to disprove that Ukraine hit the Luhansk city hall in 2014?

Nazi regime admitted it. In fact even western neocon regimes admitted it and reported it. They just said it was OK, these were separatists women and they deserved to die.

Now, nazi Regime and US White House, both admitted that their side is shelling Nuclear Plant. And you seem to be OK with it too.

 

[Patooka]

War will end when your side leaves Ukraine.
Again, piece of shit Elensky was ready to accept russian proposal but his Superiors ordered him not to.

Who is this Elensky?

Barbos, our resident anti-war activist, has such disdain for Russia's special military operation, that even typing the letter Z brings him unbearable pain and remorse. I think we need to be mindful of his feelings.

No. I am just following EU laws which banned the last letter of the Latin alphabet.

Huh?

Sorry, that was an idiom [removed]. What I meant to say was can you back that horseshit up with a news article?

 

[barbos]

As you can see, the missile is faded and duplicated in some frames

faded&duplicated != disappeared.

And yes, faded AND duplicated is how it ends up when it has to approximate frames.
And it's all irrelevant because the video in question was not put through rate conversion. We know that because it means "duplicated" and mixed frames which are not present there.

So, what now? Video is fake?

 

[barbos]

Do you not understand that the Ukrainian troops dug in where they expected the attack to come? Thus they expected the Russians to attack civilian areas--like they usually do.

That's not what happened. They would put a tank near school and shoot into roughly russian forces direction. Russians respond, then ukro-nazi photograzphers take a picture from a drone making sure that tank is not visible.

Then of course preventing civilians from leaving the their apartment building while they use it as they pleased.

 

[barbos]

No, you give me a break.
You cannot compare Ukraine to Russia. Ukraine is a shitty country used by NATO to attack and destroy/weaken Russia. Russia is defending against NATO who is the aggressor here.

No. You give us a break. Anything Russia thinks is true is true and anything else is propaganda is not a coherent reasonable stance, NATO exists because USSR, er, Russia has a history of swallowing neighbors. Calling Ukraine a "shitty country" is not rationale for occupation. Russia is as nation among nations. It is not, nor is any country, permitted to determine the validity of neighbor nations.

Russia has a shitty neighbor then Russia should operate in a proper international forum. One nation never has the 'right' to eliminate another nation for being "shitty". One must make a case in the international court rather than acting out. Make a case Russia.

Really? you believe that?
What about Georgia?

Let me refresh your memory about them.
US conducted a coup there, installed a puppet regime and then paid and trained army and then supported their attack on Russia in order to return territories which were never really georgian.
Of course you can call it unsupported conspiracy theories. Except this is what georgians themselves believe and more importantly what closest allies of Saakashvili say. They literally said "US supported only these people who were openly anti-russian" The only way to get money from State Department in Georgia was to promise to hate Russia.

This is what people who know say.

You honestly want me to believe the shit your government critters are spewing?

Spring-Summer 2014, ukrainian "government" suddenly starts calling East Ukrainian "separatists" terrorists. That's weird, everybody says, I mean they are obviously separatists, but there were no terrorism involved.
Then a leak about secret CIA head visit to Kiev appears. Then it gets confirmed by US critters. Then date checked and it appears change in naming magically coincided with the visit.

And you want me trust your government?


Now, back to Georgia. US essentially bought all politicians and government there and ordered them to hate Russia. So they did. Everybody knows that. And it was fucking great, because Police was paid directly by US taxpayers and famous georgian police corruption disappeared. Then war and ass-kicking, then economic sanctions from Russia and subsequent semi-collapse of the economy. Then sane government and semi-normalization of relations with Russia, culminating in Georgia saying "We are not supporting war on Russia"
They have their independence, "Imperialist" Russia does not invade them and the economy is fine. All they had to do is to stop following western orders in their war on Russia.

Russia does not need US neocon controlled governments on its borders. Yes, I am talking to you, Baltic States!

People in these small countries need to understand that they DO have an option of staying away from all this nonsense, just stop electing frauds who are bought and controlled by the US. Problem, of course, most people are stupid and believe US government.

 

[fromderinside]

No, you give me a break.
You cannot compare Ukraine to Russia. Ukraine is a shitty country used by NATO to attack and destroy/weaken Russia. Russia is defending against NATO who is the aggressor here.

No. You give us a break. Anything Russia thinks is true is true and anything else is propaganda is not a coherent reasonable stance, NATO exists because USSR, er, Russia has a history of swallowing neighbors. Calling Ukraine a "shitty country" is not rationale for occupation. Russia is as nation among nations. It is not, nor is any country, permitted to determine the validity of neighbor nations.

Russia has a shitty neighbor then Russia should operate in a proper international forum. One nation never has the 'right' to eliminate another nation for being "shitty". One must make a case in the international court rather than acting out. Make a case Russia.

Really? you believe that?
What about Georgia?

Let me refresh your memory about them.
US conducted a coup there, installed a puppet regime and then paid and trained army and then supported their attack on Russia in order to return territories which were never really georgian.
Of course you can call it unsupported conspiracy theories. Except this is what georgians themselves believe and more importantly what closest allies of Saakashvili say. They literally said "US supported only these people who were openly anti-russian" The only way to get money from State Department in Georgia was to promise to hate Russia.

This is what people who know say.

You honestly want me to believe the shit your government critters are spewing?

Spring-Summer 2014, ukrainian "government" suddenly starts calling East Ukrainian "separatists" terrorists. That's weird, everybody says, I mean they are obviously separatists, but there were no terrorism involved.
Then a leak about secret CIA head visit to Kiev appears. Then it gets confirmed by US critters. Then date checked and it appears change in naming magically coincided with the visit.

And you want me trust your government?


Now, back to Georgia. US essentially bought all politicians and government there and ordered them to hate Russia. So they did. Everybody knows that. And it was fucking great, because Police was paid directly by US taxpayers and famous georgian police corruption disappeared. Then war and ass-kicking, then economic sanctions from Russia and subsequent semi-collapse of the economy. Then sane government and semi-normalization of relations with Russia, culminating in Georgia saying "We are not supporting war on Russia"
They have their independence, "Imperialist" Russia does not invade them and the economy is fine. All they had to do is to stop following western orders in their war on Russia.

Russia does not need US neocon controlled governments on its borders. Yes, I am talking to you, Baltic States!

People in these small countries need to understand that they DO have an option of staying away from all this nonsense, just stop electing frauds who are bought and controlled by the US. Problem, of course, most people are stupid and believe US government.

Uh, yeah, I believe that. International reporting and even Russian reporting supports that conclusion.

As for 2014 Russia took Crimea by force of arms and by bribing pensioners.

And had it not been for previous Russian invasions of Ukraine there wouldn't be majority Russian populations in eastern Ukraine. The reason for the invasions? Russia wanted the coal and ore there.

Keep it up barbos. We'll use you to show us how to write bad fiction and ridiculous propaganda stories.

Sheesh.

For starters there probably never been more than100 US visitors to Georgia in any year since 1945. So of course we have a network working full time within the government there capable of overthrowing local authority.

Of course we do.

My vote for BS of the week award goes to barbos.

 

[barbos]

For starters there probably never been more than100 US visitors to Georgia in any year since 1945

How is that .... I don't even know what to say to that.
Are you taking all the pills which you are supposed to take?