What are you reading?

[ksen]

Re reading Richard Dawkins excellent book, A River Out Of Eden. Recently re read The God Delusion from the same author.

Is a fedora part of the required uniform for reading those?

I'm plowing through The Horus Heresy a series set in the Warhammer 40k universe.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Edit

 

[angelo]

Re reading Richard Dawkins excellent book, A River Out Of Eden. Recently re read The God Delusion from the same author.

Is a fedora part of the required uniform for reading those?

I'm plowing through The Horus Heresy a series set in the Warhammer 40k universe.

No and yes!

 

[Bullmoose Too]

I have been drifting between three books; The Warrior-Prophet by R. Scott Baker, Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson, and Godless by Dan Barker.

I got several other books lined up; the Thousandfold Though by R. Scott Baker, World War Z by Max Brooks, Dracula by Bram Stoker, and Nostromo by Joseph Conrad.

I've been searching for the poems of Samuel Taylor Coleridge and that book series by E. R. Eiddson that takes place after the Worm Ouroboros. Can't find them anywhere.

 

[angelo]

I only ever read non fiction.

 

[Tars Tarkus]

To End All Wars by Adam Hochschild. I've read maybe a half dozen history books dealing with WWI and this is the most interesting, as it deals with the social changes and the varied personalities and politics and how they affected the war, particularly (thus far) in Great Britain.

 

[angelo]

The West Australian, newspaper. I'm appalled at the senseless murder and mayhem in Bangkok. Is this another of the thousands of attacks by the religion of Peace?

 

[bilby]

The West Australian, newspaper. I'm appalled at the senseless murder and mayhem in Bangkok. Is this another of the thousands of attacks by the religion of Peace?

Not unless the 'religion of Peace' to which you refer is the group known as the United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) or simply "Red Shirts", most of whom support deposed Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and who have been fighting the Bangkok government by the so-called 'National Council for Peace and Order', led by self-appointed Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-ocha, since martial law was imposed in a military coup in May last year (and before that fought the anti-Shinawatra group, the Peoples Alliance for democracy (PAD) aka "Yellow Shirts" for about a decade).

Most of the UDD are Buddhists; but it is not a religious organisation - most Thais of all political persuasions (about 93% of the Thai population) are Buddhists.

"Today there is a suspect... we are looking for this guy," Prayut Chan-ocha, the country's military chief told reporters, adding the man was seen on closed circuit television at the blast site.

Mr Prayut said the suspect was believed to be from an "anti-government group based in Thailand's northeast" - the heartland of the kingdom's Red Shirt movement that opposes the military junta.

(source)

It is disappointing, but not surprising, that you have jumped to the conclusion that your favourite enemy is responsible on the basis of absolutely no evidence whatsoever.

Of course, it is possible that General Chan-ocha is guilty of the same conclusion jumping, in his assigning of blame to his main political opponents - but at least he has some rational justification for doing so, and he claims to have video evidence too.

The political situation in Thailand has been violent and turbulent for a long time, and this is merely the largest and most recent bombing in the capital. There are so many factions in Thai politics that I sometimes wonder whether even the Thais themselves know who is on what side at any given time. Certainly there is no need to invoke Islam as a plausible suspect in a terrorist act in Bangkok today, any more than one would presume Islamic involvement in a terrorist bombing in Belfast in the 1970s. There is a much more obvious suspect in the form of the UDD; an organisation with a history of such attacks in Bangkok.

 

[angelo]

Yes, but since 9/11 the religion of peace has committed over 25000 atrocities. You can't blame one for jumping to conclusions!. Meanwhile, in downtown Baghdad, another 30 victims of the religion of peace with many more injured.

 

[bilby]

Yes, but since 9/11 the religion of peace has committed over 25000 atrocities. You can't blame one for jumping to conclusions!.

Yes, I can - and I did. Jumping to conclusions is stupid and counter-productive, and everyone should do their utmost to avoid doing it.

Meanwhile, in downtown Baghdad, another 30 victims of the religion of peace with many more injured.

 

[angelo]

Bilby, it seems you're shooting the messenger!

 

[bigfield]

Bilby, it seems you're shooting the messenger!

That defence only applies when you are ordered to carry a message regardless of your personal opinions on the matter. In the current context it's nothing but a cop-out.

When you decide, based on your own judgement, that a message is accurate and worth sharing, then it is implied that you agree with the message and share the opinion held within.

In this case, you carried the message and stated your acceptance of its claim that the attackers were Muslims. That's your stupid mistake.

It's no different than preachers spreading the Good Word.

 

[bigfield]

Reading Foundation by Isaac Asimov.

I first picked up this book when I was about 14, but I stopped reading during the first chapter. Why? I thought it was too far fetched that Seldon could chart human history on a pocket calculator. I failed to suspend my disbelief as required by the story.

Of course, that was before I ever used a graphics calculator and appreciated that name 'calculator' can also refer to a pocket scientific computer.

Now that I can accept that particular plot device, I am kicking myself for passing up such an excellent story. I didn't realise that Asimov coined 'violence is the last resort of the incompetent'.

Once of my favourite passages so far:

Show

This was the second meeting of the Board that Hardin had attended, if one were to
exclude the informal talks the Board members had had with the now-departed Lord
Dorwin. Yet the mayor had a perfectly definite idea that at least one other, and
possibly two or three, had been held, to which he had somehow never received an
invitation.
Nor, it seemed to him, would he have received notification of this one had it not
been for the ultimatum.
At least, it amounted to an ultimatum, though a superficial reading of the
visigraphed document would lead one to suppose that it was a friendly interchange
of greetings between two potentates.
Hardin fingered it gingerly. It started off floridly with a salutation from "His Puissant
Majesty, the King of Anacreon, to his friend and brother, Dr. Lewis Pirenne,
Chairman of the Board of Trustees, of the Encyclopedia Foundation Number One,"
and it ended even more lavishly with a gigantic, multicolored seal of the most
involved symbolism.
But it was an ultimatum just the same.
Hardin said: "It turned out that we didn't have much time after all – only three
months. But little as it was, we threw it away unused. This thing here gives us a
week. What do we do now?"
Pirenne frowned worriedly. "There must be a loophole. It is absolutely unbelievable
that they would push matters to extremities in the face of what Lord Dorwin has
assured us regarding the attitude of the Emperor and the Empire."
Hardin perked up. "I see. You have informed the King of Anacreon of this alleged
attitude?"
"I did – after having placed the proposal to the Board for a vote and having
received unanimous consent."
"And when did this vote take place?"
Pirenne climbed onto his dignity. "I do not believe I am answerable to you in any
way, Mayor Hardin."
"All right. I'm not that vitally interested. It's just my opinion that it was your
diplomatic transmission of Lord Dorwin's valuable contribution to the situation"– he
lifted the comer of his mouth in a sour half-smile –"that was the direct cause of this
friendly little note. They might have delayed longer otherwise – though I don't think
the additional time would have helped Terminus any, considering the attitude of the
Board."
Said Yate Fulham: "And just how do you arrive at that remarkable conclusion, Mr.
Mayor?"
"In a rather simple way. It merely required the use of that much-neglected
commodity – common sense. You see, there is a branch of human knowledge
known as symbolic logic, which can be used to prune away all sorts of clogging
deadwood that clutters up human language."
"What about it?" said Fulham.
"I applied it. Among other things, I applied it to this document here. I didn't really
need to for myself because I knew what it was all about, but I think I can explain it
more easily to five physical scientists by symbols rather than by words."
Hardin removed a few sheets of paper from the pad under his arm and spread
them out. "I didn't do this myself, by the way," he said. "Muller Holk of the Division
of Logic has his name signed to the analyses, as you can see."
Pirenne leaned over the table to get a better view and Hardin continued: "The
message from Anacreon was a simple problem, naturally, for the men who wrote it
were men of action rather than men of words. It boils down easily and
straightforwardly to the unqualified statement, when in symbols is what you see,
and which in words, roughly translated, is, 'You give us what we want in a week, or
we take it by force.'"
There was silence as the five members of the Board ran down the line of symbols,
and then Pirenne sat down and coughed uneasily.
Hardin said, "No loophole, is there, Dr. Pirenne?"
"Doesn't seem to be."
"All right." Hardin replaced the sheets. "Before you now you see a copy of the
treaty between the Empire and Anacreon – a treaty, incidentally, which is signed
on the Emperor's behalf by the same Lord Dorwin who was here last week – and
with it a symbolic analysis."
The treaty ran through five pages of fine print and the analysis was scrawled out in
just under half a page.
"As you see, gentlemen, something like ninety percent of the treaty boiled right out
of the analysis as being meaningless, and what we end up with can be described
in the following interesting manner:
"Obligations of Anacreon to the Empire: None!
"Powers of the Empire over Anacreon: None!"
Again the five followed the reasoning anxiously, checking carefully back to the
treaty, and when they were finished, Pirenne said in a worried fashion, "That
seems to be correct."
"You admit, then, that the treaty is nothing but a declaration of total independence
on the part of Anacreon and a recognition of that status by the Empire?"
"It seems so."
"And do you suppose that Anacreon doesn't realize that, and is not anxious to
emphasize the position of independence – so that it would naturally tend to resent
any appearance of threats from the Empire? Particularly when it is evident that the
Empire is powerless to fulfill any such threats, or it would never have allowed
independence."
"But then," interposed Sutt, "how would Mayor Hardin account for Lord Dorwin's
assurances of Empire support? They seemed –" He shrugged. "Well, they seemed
satisfactory."
Hardin threw himself back in the chair. "You know, that's the most interesting part
of the whole business. I'll admit I had thought his Lordship a most consummate
donkey when I first met him – but it turned out that he was actually an
accomplished diplomat and a most clever man. I took the liberty of recording all his
statements."
There was a flurry, and Pirenne opened his mouth in horror.
"What of it?" demanded Hardin. "I realize it was a gross breach of hospitality and a
thing no so-called gentleman would do. Also, that if his lordship had caught on,
things might have been unpleasant; but he didn't, and I have the record, and that's
that. I took that record, had it copied out and sent that to Holk for analysis, also."
Lundin Crast said, "And where is the analysis?"
"That," replied Hardin, "is the interesting thing. The analysis was the most difficult
of the three by all odds. When Holk, after two days of steady work, succeeded in
eliminating meaningless statements, vague gibberish, useless qualifications – in
short, all the goo and dribble – he found he had nothing left. Everything canceled
out."
"Lord Dorwin, gentlemen, in five days of discussion didn't say one damned thing,
and said it so you never noticed. There are the assurances you had from your
precious Empire."

 

[marc]

Reading Foundation by Isaac Asimov.

I first picked up this book when I was about 14, but I stopped reading during the first chapter. Why? I thought it was too far fetched that Seldon could chart human history on a pocket calculator. I failed to suspend my disbelief as required by the story.

Of course, that was before I ever used a graphics calculator and appreciated that name 'calculator' can also refer to a pocket scientific computer.

Now that I can accept that particular plot device, I am kicking myself for passing up such an excellent story. I didn't realise that Asimov coined 'violence is the last resort of the incompetent'.

Once of my favourite passages so far:

Show

This was the second meeting of the Board that Hardin had attended, if one were to
exclude the informal talks the Board members had had with the now-departed Lord
Dorwin. Yet the mayor had a perfectly definite idea that at least one other, and
possibly two or three, had been held, to which he had somehow never received an
invitation.
Nor, it seemed to him, would he have received notification of this one had it not
been for the ultimatum.
At least, it amounted to an ultimatum, though a superficial reading of the
visigraphed document would lead one to suppose that it was a friendly interchange
of greetings between two potentates.
Hardin fingered it gingerly. It started off floridly with a salutation from "His Puissant
Majesty, the King of Anacreon, to his friend and brother, Dr. Lewis Pirenne,
Chairman of the Board of Trustees, of the Encyclopedia Foundation Number One,"
and it ended even more lavishly with a gigantic, multicolored seal of the most
involved symbolism.
But it was an ultimatum just the same.
Hardin said: "It turned out that we didn't have much time after all – only three
months. But little as it was, we threw it away unused. This thing here gives us a
week. What do we do now?"
Pirenne frowned worriedly. "There must be a loophole. It is absolutely unbelievable
that they would push matters to extremities in the face of what Lord Dorwin has
assured us regarding the attitude of the Emperor and the Empire."
Hardin perked up. "I see. You have informed the King of Anacreon of this alleged
attitude?"
"I did – after having placed the proposal to the Board for a vote and having
received unanimous consent."
"And when did this vote take place?"
Pirenne climbed onto his dignity. "I do not believe I am answerable to you in any
way, Mayor Hardin."
"All right. I'm not that vitally interested. It's just my opinion that it was your
diplomatic transmission of Lord Dorwin's valuable contribution to the situation"– he
lifted the comer of his mouth in a sour half-smile –"that was the direct cause of this
friendly little note. They might have delayed longer otherwise – though I don't think
the additional time would have helped Terminus any, considering the attitude of the
Board."
Said Yate Fulham: "And just how do you arrive at that remarkable conclusion, Mr.
Mayor?"
"In a rather simple way. It merely required the use of that much-neglected
commodity – common sense. You see, there is a branch of human knowledge
known as symbolic logic, which can be used to prune away all sorts of clogging
deadwood that clutters up human language."
"What about it?" said Fulham.
"I applied it. Among other things, I applied it to this document here. I didn't really
need to for myself because I knew what it was all about, but I think I can explain it
more easily to five physical scientists by symbols rather than by words."
Hardin removed a few sheets of paper from the pad under his arm and spread
them out. "I didn't do this myself, by the way," he said. "Muller Holk of the Division
of Logic has his name signed to the analyses, as you can see."
Pirenne leaned over the table to get a better view and Hardin continued: "The
message from Anacreon was a simple problem, naturally, for the men who wrote it
were men of action rather than men of words. It boils down easily and
straightforwardly to the unqualified statement, when in symbols is what you see,
and which in words, roughly translated, is, 'You give us what we want in a week, or
we take it by force.'"
There was silence as the five members of the Board ran down the line of symbols,
and then Pirenne sat down and coughed uneasily.
Hardin said, "No loophole, is there, Dr. Pirenne?"
"Doesn't seem to be."
"All right." Hardin replaced the sheets. "Before you now you see a copy of the
treaty between the Empire and Anacreon – a treaty, incidentally, which is signed
on the Emperor's behalf by the same Lord Dorwin who was here last week – and
with it a symbolic analysis."
The treaty ran through five pages of fine print and the analysis was scrawled out in
just under half a page.
"As you see, gentlemen, something like ninety percent of the treaty boiled right out
of the analysis as being meaningless, and what we end up with can be described
in the following interesting manner:
"Obligations of Anacreon to the Empire: None!
"Powers of the Empire over Anacreon: None!"
Again the five followed the reasoning anxiously, checking carefully back to the
treaty, and when they were finished, Pirenne said in a worried fashion, "That
seems to be correct."
"You admit, then, that the treaty is nothing but a declaration of total independence
on the part of Anacreon and a recognition of that status by the Empire?"
"It seems so."
"And do you suppose that Anacreon doesn't realize that, and is not anxious to
emphasize the position of independence – so that it would naturally tend to resent
any appearance of threats from the Empire? Particularly when it is evident that the
Empire is powerless to fulfill any such threats, or it would never have allowed
independence."
"But then," interposed Sutt, "how would Mayor Hardin account for Lord Dorwin's
assurances of Empire support? They seemed –" He shrugged. "Well, they seemed
satisfactory."
Hardin threw himself back in the chair. "You know, that's the most interesting part
of the whole business. I'll admit I had thought his Lordship a most consummate
donkey when I first met him – but it turned out that he was actually an
accomplished diplomat and a most clever man. I took the liberty of recording all his
statements."
There was a flurry, and Pirenne opened his mouth in horror.
"What of it?" demanded Hardin. "I realize it was a gross breach of hospitality and a
thing no so-called gentleman would do. Also, that if his lordship had caught on,
things might have been unpleasant; but he didn't, and I have the record, and that's
that. I took that record, had it copied out and sent that to Holk for analysis, also."
Lundin Crast said, "And where is the analysis?"
"That," replied Hardin, "is the interesting thing. The analysis was the most difficult
of the three by all odds. When Holk, after two days of steady work, succeeded in
eliminating meaningless statements, vague gibberish, useless qualifications – in
short, all the goo and dribble – he found he had nothing left. Everything canceled
out."
"Lord Dorwin, gentlemen, in five days of discussion didn't say one damned thing,
and said it so you never noticed. There are the assurances you had from your
precious Empire."

Read it many years ago. Yup, that is one part that has always stayed with me.

 

[angelo]

Bilby, it seems you're shooting the messenger!

That defence only applies when you are ordered to carry a message regardless of your personal opinions on the matter. In the current context it's nothing but a cop-out.

When you decide, based on your own judgement, that a message is accurate and worth sharing, then it is implied that you agree with the message and share the opinion held within.

In this case, you carried the message and stated your acceptance of its claim that the attackers were Muslims. That's your stupid mistake.

It's no different than preachers spreading the Good Word.

Well the later news is suggesting it may be an islamic attack after all.

 

[Draconis]

Recently finished reading "Malice" by John Gwynne. A bit long winded with not that much happening the first 3/4 of the book. Some young people learning to use practice swords. (Yoda on their back, telling them "do or do not" etc). Then there's a bit of betrayal etc at the end. Nope, it's not GOT (and this seems to be the benchmark of fantasy these days).

I'll the next one sometime. I think.

 

[angelo]

I just finished reading a biography of an Aussie porn star. Not all that very well written I thought. At the end of the book Amazon asks to rate it out of five. I gave it 2.

 

[Underseer]

Still working on The Christian Delusion.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Christian-Delusion-Faith-Fails/dp/1616141689

Bible scholarship is well outside what I'm good at, so it's slow going. I'll probably have to read this thing multiple times to understand it.

Still, there is good and useful info in here for arguing with Christian (and especially evangelical) apologists. I have to say that I am shocked at the breadth and variety of eschatological opinions among Christians. Nothing shows the incoherence of the Bible like the varied excuses Christians use to explain away Jesus' failed prediction about when He would come back.

 

[DBT]

Started reading book five of the Game of Thrones...which is over a thousand pages. Had trouble getting into it at the start because it tends to ramble a bit, but it's getting more interesting after few chapters.

 

[James Brown]

Still working on The Christian Delusion.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Christian-Delusion-Faith-Fails/dp/1616141689

Bible scholarship is well outside what I'm good at, so it's slow going. I'll probably have to read this thing multiple times to understand it.

Still, there is good and useful info in here for arguing with Christian (and especially evangelical) apologists. I have to say that I am shocked at the breadth and variety of eschatological opinions among Christians. Nothing shows the incoherence of the Bible like the varied excuses Christians use to explain away Jesus' failed prediction about when He would come back.

What's curious is how the Christian apologists contradict each other in so many ways. Sometimes all one needs to do to rebut an apologist is quote another apologist. Then stand back.

- - - Updated - - -

Started reading book five of the Game of Thrones...which is over a thousand pages. Had trouble getting into it at the start because it tends to ramble a bit, but it's getting more interesting after few chapters.

You might find this site helpful.

A Wiki of Ice and Fire