What became of 10 house republicans who voted to impeach

[Jarhyn]

we must conclude RVonse does believe Trump had the election stolen.

@RVonse fails to take responsibility for his own statements.

Responsibility for presenting the other side of an OP? And I did not make that youtube video, someone else did, all I did was present it for examination and scrutiny here. Which it got very much of. If like minded people do not have the courage to present another side, who do you think will? Not ever presenting the other side is the surest way to stop the progress of knowledge.

Keep in mind the Galaleo's and Newtons of their time were actually right.....even though they seemed like the PCR loons of their day.

Yes. Responsibility for not representing 'the other side', which is to say, responsibility to direct a duly diligent doubt upon such a doodie.

You have the responsibility to make sure whatever "side" you present is at least credible before you present it* and then if you cannot find as much, perhaps accept that there aren't actually multiple "sides", and that "the other side" is just actually correct, and that someone "on your side" actually took you as a sucker.

*And barring this, just simply don't present, if you find yourself unable to validate credibility

Thats not how a scientific approach works. Because in the first place, you can't know what your don't know. And in the second place, cancelling other opinions or beliefs based on your own feelings is never a good idea. The best practice is to test them against other ideas in the light of day.

It is absolutely how the scientific approach works: you have a responsibility to doubt and thus test any hypothesis you bring to the table.

Further, as part of the  academic approach works, you have a responsibility to defend your own works, to expect the publishers of work to defend their own works, and to respect the general consensus on a failure of defense I sofar as the logic of attack is sound.

You did... None of that. Nor did pillowfucker.

 

[Hermit]

we must conclude RVonse does believe Trump had the election stolen.

@RVonse fails to take responsibility for his own statements.

Responsibility for presenting the other side of an OP? And I did not make that youtube video, someone else did, all I did was present it for examination and scrutiny here. Which it got very much of. If like minded people do not have the courage to present another side, who do you think will? Not ever presenting the other side is the surest way to stop the progress of knowledge and truth.

In the Election Fraud Evidence Thread. Elixir asked for links to

...evidence of fraud in the 2020 Presidential election here.
Not intended as a debating thread, this a repository for actual first hand accounts and links to objective evidence of election fraud...

You provided two links.

Keep in mind the Galaleo's and Newtons of their time were actually right.....even though they seemed like the PCR loons of their day.

Waiting for the day when Mike Lindell's claims, such as that hackers from Beijing had switched nearly 24,000 votes out of a total of that county's 17,000 registered voters from Trump to Biden turns out to be correct, will prove that Lindell is not a loon after all. Same applies to that serial conspiracy theorist, Paul Craig Roberts. He may be wrong about the 9/11 conspiracy, the death of JFK, his holocaust denialism, his claim that the Charlie Hebdo shooting has many of the characteristics of a false flag operation and that Ebola originated as a US bioweapon, but he may just turn out to be right about the claim that there is proof in abundance that the "US November election was stolen" even though nobody succeeded to furnish any evidence to make the accusation stick in any court of law since it was made two and a half years ago.

Yes, I certainly keep an open mind on the credibility of their claims. It's the scientific thing to do.

Seriously now, VRonse, claims by Lindell and Roberts have not been rejected out of hand. They have been examined in depth and found lacking supporting evidence. Eventually one is driven to conclude that, until new facts come to light, they can be dismissed as flights of fancy. But you cited two links involving Lindell's and Robert's output as

...evidence of fraud in the 2020 Presidential election.
...links to objective evidence of election fraud...

Own up to it.

 

[Elixir]

all I did was present it for examination and scrutiny here

Yeah. That's all you EVER do.
You present the stupidest, most bigoted apologetic "arguments" that other people have made.
One need not wonder why that is, in the absence of any stance claimed as your own.

 

[ZiprHead]

Mike Lindell should not be regarded as a reliable source of anything. He accused that Clark County Wi election results were hacked by people in Beijing and changed 24,000 votes from Trump to Biden. There are two factual problems with that story

Since the presidential election, Christina Jensen says she's been stopped on the street several times by acquaintances who wanted to share troubling news: hackers from Beijing had switched nearly 24,000 votes for Donald Trump in their rural, GOP-leaning Wisconsin county.
Jensen, the Clark County clerk and a Republican herself, has patiently explained that the local election computer system isn't connected to the internet -- and the county has less than 17,000 registered voters overall.

Source: MyPillow magnate Mike Lindell's latest election conspiracy theory is his most bizarre yet

Mr. Lindell is yet another example of someone peddling batshit crazy ideas.

Just read he's about to do another two-day votes were stolen conference.

 

[ZiprHead]

we must conclude RVonse does believe Trump had the election stolen.

@RVonse fails to take responsibility for his own statements.

Responsibility for presenting the other side of an OP? And I did not make that youtube video, someone else did, all I did was present it for examination and scrutiny here. Which it got very much of. If like minded people do not have the courage to present another side, who do you think will? Not ever presenting the other side is the surest way to stop the progress of knowledge and truth.

Keep in mind the Galaleo's and Newtons of their time were actually right.....even though they seemed like the PCR loons of their day.

 

[Elixir]

The other side of the green cheese moon argument is begging for your attention, RVonse.
Am not saying' yore boy ain't a bigger scinstist then his Uncle Galalayo, mindya!

 

[Patooka]

Responsibility for presenting the other side of an OP?

Hitler did nothing wrong.

Sure I provide a lot of anti-semetic arguments, but really. Have you thought about the Jewish Question? How so many jews are in such key roles in our society?

I'm just asking questions. I'm not a racist and I'm certainly not a whore for the far right.

 

[lpetrich]

Trump endorsed Dan Goldman, Carolyn Maloney, and Jerry Nadler, all Democrats.

You think he’s trying to do the trick Dems did in other states - trying to sound like he’s supporting but actually drawing attendion to something that will harm support?

Dems did it in two states, I think, to get the more beatable candidate to win the primary.

Dan Goldman is running in NY-10. He dropped a big load of ads all of a sudden, and he and the other top candidates are neck-and-neck. Candidates like Yuh-Line Niou and NY-17 refugee Mondaire Jones.

Carolyn Maloney and Jerrold Nadler are both running in NY-12. Challenging them is Suraj Patel, who also ran in 2018 and 2020.

 

[Elixir]

The more extremists the ‘pugs nominate, the better the chances the Dems hold onto congress. OTOH, the more RW extremists they nominate, the greater the risk to freedom if Dems fail.
Hard to know who to root for.

 

[Jarhyn]

The more extremists the ‘pugs nominate, the better the chances the Dems hold onto congress. OTOH, the more RW extremists they nominate, the greater the risk to freedom if Dems fail.
Hard to know who to root for.

Giant Meteor.

 

[Harry Bosch]

The more extremists the ‘pugs nominate, the better the chances the Dems hold onto congress. OTOH, the more RW extremists they nominate, the greater the risk to freedom if Dems fail.
Hard to know who to root for.

Totally agree! It's a real issue. The crazy trumpers should rightfully scare enough people to greatly motivate the left to get out there and vote in 22. But generally, the left doesn't vote well in off presidential voting cycles. If we don't defeat the trumpers in 22 and lose to Trump in 24; maybe we don't deserve a democracy anyway.

 

[TomC]

But generally, the left doesn't vote well in off presidential voting cycles.

Generally, the left doesn't vote well ever.

Statistically, if left of center people voted as reliably as right of center we'd have a dramatically different government and country.
Tom

 

[RVonse]

Seriously now, VRonse, claims by Lindell and Roberts have not been rejected out of hand. They have been examined in depth and found lacking supporting evidence. Eventually one is driven to conclude that, until new facts come to light, they can be dismissed as flights of fancy

You are the one bringing back up Lindell once more here, I had forgot all about him. Then conflating Lindell with Roberts who are different people making different claims.

 

[RVonse]

all I did was present it for examination and scrutiny here

Yeah. That's all you EVER do.
You present the stupidest, most bigoted apologetic "arguments" that other people have made.
One need not wonder why that is, in the absence of any stance claimed as your own.

Oh Father Elixir I am so sorry I have sinned and I beg an indulgence so that I might still go to heaven.

 

[RVonse]

Responsibility for presenting the other side of an OP?

Hitler did nothing wrong.

Sure I provide a lot of anti-semetic arguments, but really. Have you thought about the Jewish Question? How so many jews are in such key roles in our society?

I'm just asking questions. I'm not a racist and I'm certainly not a whore for the far right.

I may not agree but I will fight for your right to speak (whatever that is).

 

[Elixir]

all I did was present it for examination and scrutiny here

Yeah. That's all you EVER do.
You present the stupidest, most bigoted apologetic "arguments" that other people have made.
One need not wonder why that is, in the absence of any stance claimed as your own.

Oh Father Elixir I am so sorry I have sinned and I beg an indulgence so that I might still go to heaven.

Typical. Rather than state a forthright position, make pretend amends for your indefensible lack of courage.

I may not agree with your moronic supplication to a fat orange idiot, but I’ll defend to the death your right to be a brainless trumpsucker if that’s your choice.

Meanwhile I will pray for your redemption, which would be easily attained by simply admitting to your beliefs, knowing how foolish those beliefs would look too those not immersed in right wing extremist propaganda. That would require a (tiny) bit of courage though. Let’s see if you can muster it;

@RVonse was the 2020 election stolen with massive fraud?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

How 10 House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump fared in 2022 primaries

Only two of the 10 will be on the ballot in November.

www.aol.com

The spoiler alert is that they pretty much all got slaughtered. Especially Liz Cheney.

Oh boy, what a terrible op post. I'm not saying that your conclusion is completely unreasonable and off-the-wall, but your arguments utilized to achieve your conclusion, i.e. the process by which you got there and the facts you ignore along the way are indeed completely bonkers.

Let's review some of the nonsense as we delve deeper into reality.

First, Liz Cheney is very conservative ideologically. She didn't lose due to independents and moderates, but instead due to a lack of appeal to very partisan Republicans and the single issue du jour, unwavering loyalty to Trump. Her loss is part of a bigger picture that one can observe by examining the rest of the candidates under discussion. 4 of them retired. That allowed them freedom to go against the would-be-dictator Twitler. 4 of them who he supported won in states that have closed primaries, i.e. to only Republican voters. The 2 that went against Trump but won live in states that have open primaries to Democrats and independents.

What this shows is that disloyalty to Trump, i.e. being a rational person accepting of facts about the 2020 election and the January 6th criminal coup is a winning strategy in a general election. This is well-supported by polling data. According to a Dec 2021 poll, for example, 54% of Independents thought Biden at least probably had won. Contrast to only 31% who thought that Biden probably had lost.

Note also, as an aside, people who scream "both sides," are not always being rational. A recent study found that political moderates tend to have more empathy, meaning some subset of their reasoning is actually emotional thinking to give sway to both tribes. Still facts are facts and those also contribute to a skew in favor of reality among independents.

This brings us to a conclusion--political strategists have known for a very long time to appeal to the base in primaries (closed primaries) and then in the general election (or open primary) to appeal to a broader audience. That strategy isn't entirely dissimilar to your conclusion, but you are very mixed up as to what that means and how to get there.

Interestingly, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee is of course also very well aware of fringe candidates sometimes working well in primaries and then moderates working well in the general. This is why they actually helped a couple of the crazy Republican candidates in question to win their primaries...so they would lose in the general election. So it wasn't only Twitler helping the crazies to win.

My concern there is based on that recent study I mentioned about independents and moderates. Since we know they engage in both sides arguments and emotional thinking or at least a strong subset of them does so, as we change the political discourse to make crazy more mainstream and normalized those statistics of independents thinking the election was stolen or have extreme fascist beliefs may also increase. Thus, the strategy to get crazies nominated might backfire.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

...emotional thinking...

That may be the greatest example of an oxymoron ever delivered.

 

[Swammerdami]

Keep in mind the Galaleo's and Newtons of their time were actually right.....even though they seemed like the PCR loons of their day.

("PCR loon"? Polymerase chain reaction loon? I am not up on the lingo.)

[Off-topic] The meme that Galileo was thought of as a crackpot during his lifetime shows much ignorance, though it's a meme commonly invoked by real crackpots!

This is the first time I've heard the meme applied to Sir Isaac Newton, who became Cambridge's Lucasian Professor of Mathematics ("one of the most prestigious academic posts in the world") at the age of 26, and was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society just three years later. When I hear the meme that he was thought of as a loon, PCR or otherwise, I can only shake my head in astonishment.

But that's not why I'm posting in this thread.

Answer:the chime of an old coo-coo clock striking noon

Question:What the F*** is an ISPOILER ??

 

[Hermit]

You are the one bringing back up Lindell once more here, I had forgot all about him. Then conflating Lindell with Roberts who are different people making different claims.

Yes, I did indeed, and here is why: Patooka wrote

That you consider Trump had the election stolen,

You asked

When did I say that?

I replied by quoting two posts you contributed to the thread titled "Election Fraud Evidence Thread", in which Elixir asked for "links to objective evidence of election fraud". You linked to Lindell and Roberts within two minutes of each other as objective evidence of election fraud.

Own up to it.

Spoiler

In the Election Fraud Evidence Thread. Elixir started it. From the opening post:

Please post evidence of fraud in the 2020 Presidential election here.
Not intended as a debating thread, this a repository for actual first hand accounts and links to objective evidence of election fraud, including arrests made or indictments served.

You contributed to the thread twice. QFT.

michaeljlindell.com

See this rather long video labeled "absolute proof". https://michaeljlindell.com

From PCR: https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/20...mber-election-was-stolen-exists-in-abundance/ Proof That the US November Election Was Stolen Exists in Abundance


As for the video itself, there seems to be two sets of contradictory evidence. One set deals with computer algorithms and software in voting machines (not only Dominion’s) that can weight the vote count, for example, counting a vote for one candidate more than one and the other candidate’s vote less than one. The machines can also be programmed to produce a large percentage of ballots that have to be adjudicated, that is assigned to a candidate by the discretion of election officials. Testimony is provided in the video showing how both of these ways were used against Trump.

The other set of evidence has to do with foreign intervention in the election. A couple of experts establish beyond all doubt that despite assurances by Dominion and the media that the machines can’t be connected to the Internet, they most certainly can and were. We are even shown the Dominion manual instructions on how to connect the machines to the Internet.

(All formatting in the original posts)