What does it mean for something to be "logically possible"?

[untermensche]

It's also possible for a finite time loop to have been repeating for eternity. Which means... untermensche?

Did infinite events occur in your model?

Because before any event it is impossible for infinite events to have occurred before it.

 

[George S]

Is the following brief argument valid?

All gods are mortal.
Zeus is a god.
___
Zeus is mortal.

This begs the question: What is a valid premise?

Absolute nonsense?

I say, prove all gods are mortal and THEN you have the start of a valid argument.

All dogs are mammals

Fido is a dog.

Therefore: Fido is a mammal.

Valid premises are assumed to not merely be unsupported speculations.

It is a valid argument.

To be valid (to go back to your screed) is not sufficient to establish truth. Your assertion, as usual, was due to a misunderstanding of the use of words.

 

[untermensche]

This begs the question: What is a valid premise?

Absolute nonsense?

I say, prove all gods are mortal and THEN you have the start of a valid argument.

All dogs are mammals

Fido is a dog.

Therefore: Fido is a mammal.

Valid premises are assumed to not merely be unsupported speculations.

It is a valid argument.

To be valid (to go back to your screed) is not sufficient to establish truth. Your assertion, as usual, was due to a misunderstanding of the use of words.

You shift away from your initial points with the speed of light when they are shown to be nonsense and move to more nonsense.

Thanks anyway.

 

[fast]

I have said that I don't think the term "logical" applies to possibility.

There are only physical possibilities. No such thing as a logical possibility.

But a valid premise is only required for a valid argument.

If one wishes to engage in empty mental masturbation then they don't need valid premises.

"Logical possibility" is a complex term..

There is no such thing.

There are only physical possibilities or impossibilities.

We can use logic to demonstrate how something might be physically impossible. Like: It is impossible for infinite time to ever finish (by definition) so therefore it is physically impossible infinite time could have occurred in the past.

But there is no such thing as a logical possibility.

The only thing logic can be used for is to determine if some physical possibility makes sense.

"No such thing as a logical possibility"

That's what you said.

You are not correct.

What you say is false.

What you have in mind when you say it, however, is correct.

So, I applaud you in recognizing the truth of what you happen to mean, but there are no clap of the hands in how you express what you have in mind.

When I see the term, "logical possibility", I see a two-worded noun phrase. I grasp that the first word in the two-worded term is a discriminator. It helps us to discriminate between different kinds of possibilities. So, if someone said X is a logical possibility but not a physical possibility, I would instantly be clued in on what they meant and what they didn't mean.

You, on the other hand, don't see a two-worded noun phrase. What you see are two individual terms (an adjective and noun.)

The problem is the first word isn't an adjective per se but serves as a discriminator.

On a another note, what do you make of the following argument:

P1: cats are mammals
P2: dogs are mammals

Therefore 3: elephants are mammals

Is that a valid argument?

 

[untermensche]

Just because a phrase exists that doesn't mean the phrase is about something that exists.

Possibilities are things that could happen. Logic has nothing to do with it.

All that matters are physical realities. They are what say if something is possible or not possible.

Not any amount of human words.

 

[Kharakov]

It's also possible for a finite time loop to have been repeating for eternity. Which means... untermensche?

Did infinite events occur in your model?

Of course, if the time loop has existed for eternity, that means it has repeated itself an unbounded (infinite) amount of times.

There isn't a point in the time loop that is the "start" of the time loop, unless you consider the point at which the time loop broke off of another infinite time loop (if you're doing a multiple past paths scenario).

 

[untermensche]

Did infinite events occur in your model?

Of course, if the time loop has existed for eternity, that means it has repeated itself an unbounded (infinite) amount of times.

There isn't a point in the time loop that is the "start" of the time loop, unless you consider the point at which the time loop broke off of another infinite time loop (if you're doing a multiple past paths scenario).

It's an irrational impossible concept.

It is impossible for infinite events to "have occurred".

Infinite events are events without end.

Ever.

 

[Kharakov]

Ok, you still don't get that events that don't begin are infinite as well. The best way to illustrate it with language is using numbers:

0, 1, 2, 3..... begins at t=0, no end. At any point on the timeline, a finite amount of time has passed, an infinite amount of time will never have passed, although time will continue to pass forever.

..., -2, -1, 0 , 1, 2..... no beginning, no end At any point on the timeline, an infinite amount of time has passed, and will continue to pass forever.

..., -3, -2, -1, 0 no beginning, has an end at t=0. At any point on the timeline, an infinite amount of time has passed. At point t=0 time will stop passing (for whatever reason- I didn't say it was physically possible).

 

[untermensche]

Your third example is not what you say it is.

It is a string of negative numbers beginning at zero and then moving away.

Nothing is ending at zero. The negative numbers begin at zero and become progressively smaller.

There is no such thing as an infinite line with an end. None have an end. Some have neither a beginning or an end.

 

[bilby]

It's also possible for a finite time loop to have been repeating for eternity. Which means... untermensche?

Did infinite events occur in your model?

Because before any event it is impossible for infinite events to have occurred before it.

No matter how far eastwards you travel, there is alway a point further east than your current position.

No matter how far back in time you look, there is always a time earlier than the time you are looking at.

Your lack of anything resembling actual thought on this topic is astounding. All the more so when considered in tandem with your apparent interest in it.

You need to learn how to think; then you need to actually do some thinking. You cannot succeed if you miss the first step.

Perhaps you should try to find out what the word 'valid' means in the context of logic, before you even try to do difficult things like understanding what infinity means, and why it is a useful concept.

 

[bilby]

Infinite events are events without end.

Ever.

It has been explained to you repeatedly that this is an incomplete definition.

While you cling to it, your conclusions based upon it will continue to be embarrassingly stupid.

 

[Kharakov]

It is a string of negative numbers beginning at zero and then moving away.

Nothing is ending at zero. The negative numbers begin at zero and become progressively smaller.

Like beero1000 told you in the past, unless specified otherwise (saying something like the number line progresses in the pi direction), number lines are thought of as progressing towards the positive direction. So if you have:

... -3, -2, -1, 0, 1

It means a beginningless series of numbers that ends at 1. In any instance in which we are speaking of time, it is a given premise that the timeline moves from left to right, so the above timeline is beginningless (also assume continuity between the integers, all reals, since there are irrational times).

There is no such thing as an infinite line with an end. None have an end. Some have neither a beginning or an end.

I suppose if you don't want to except reality, you can stick your head in the sand. I mean, I do it about stuff all the time. I hope that I'll have a better life, despite all evidence to the contrary. I hope that I'll find love and joy, despite all the evidence to the contrary. I hope that I'll have comfortable future, despite all the evidence to the contrary. I hope that I'll be able to do things I enjoy without negative consequences, despite all evidence to the contrary. I mean, my whole life revolves around me hoping for things that I doubt will occur.


I just can't for the life of me figure out why someone would deliberately hold onto ignorance about infinity. Why do you deliberately ignore the existence of the infinite (do you have a reason other than keeping this thread going)? Are you scared of it? Did you hurt it? Did it hurt you?

 

[bilby]

Show me on this doll where the void touched you...

 

[untermensche]

Did infinite events occur in your model?

Because before any event it is impossible for infinite events to have occurred before it.

No matter how far eastwards you travel, there is always a point further east than your current position.

The issue is how many times you can travel around a globe.

It is impossible to say at any time that you have already gone around the planet infinite times.

No infinity such as that can be in the past. It is not possible for infinite time to have already passed.

No matter how far back in time you look, there is always a time earlier than the time you are looking at.

You have described a finite amount of time if the only limit is what a human can see.

 

[untermensche]

Infinite events are events without end.

Ever.

It has been explained to you repeatedly that this is an incomplete definition.

While you cling to it, your conclusions based upon it will continue to be embarrassingly stupid.

It has been explained to you that "no beginning" is not an answer fit for an adult.

It is an irrational impossible situation.

It implies infinite time has somehow already occurred in the past.

An impossibility.

 

[untermensche]

Like beero1000 told you in the past, unless specified otherwise (saying something like the number line progresses in the pi direction), number lines are thought of as progressing towards the positive direction. So if you have:

You should stop listening to that moron.

You cannot move from the undefined to the defined.

You claim some line is ending at zero.

Where is it moving from? From what point is it moving from?

Please be specific.

Saying it moves from every point is undefined gibberish.

 

[Kharakov]

Stop listening to a mathematician about mathematics? Sure. Sounds wise. Thanks for the advise.

You claim some line is ending at zero.

Where is it moving from? From what point is it moving from?

It's not moving from somewhere. It's a timeline, representing time. It has not beginning, because it represents time (which has no beginning).

t=0 is now, for example, and say that t=10000 is the end of time. There is no beginning to time, so there is no maximum t=-whatever that represents the furthest point from now in time. In other words, there is no furthest point, because the timeline doesn't have a beginning.


Take a math class. And please let me record it and put it on the internet.

 

[untermensche]

Stop listening to a mathematician about mathematics? Sure. Sounds wise. Thanks for the advise.

This is not about mathematics.

Infinity definitely has a place in mathematics.

We are talking about the real world, not mathematics.

And morons don't quite comprehend the difference.

Thus I am still here laughing at absurd argument after absurd argument.

 

[fromderinside]

My claim is things that may be finite if one could measure them are considered infinite since there can be no poof to the contrary since they are beyond the ability of one to count or they may extend on infinitely. Beyond counting satisfies the requirement for a thing to be called infinite.

You cannot claim because of the possibility that something might finite if it were counted requires a counter capable to so performing.

 

[untermensche]

Human limitations do not by magic do the impossible.

It is impossible for infinite time to have existed in the past.

This would mean that before some moment infinite moments came before it.

Can infinite moments occur BEFORE a given moment?