What does it mean for something to be "logically possible"?

[bilby]

When fools are reduced to this you know they are as lost as a fool can be.

Well, yes. That's exactly the point I am making.

If the past was infinite then it would be possible to recite ALL the integers in it.

Then you could tell us which is the last one.

...and yet you persist.

Very strange.

OK Schultz. You are done. You once again have no point.

Which is your normal behavior.

I know you want some kind of formal argument, but this is not an argument.

If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit.

 

[beero1000]

And you're taking smaller slices of time as well. The whole paradox is... a trick or something.

I'm not making any slices.

I'm modeling infinite time. It is the amount of time it would take to recite ALL the integers.

Claiming the time before some moment was infinite is to claim it was possible for someone to recite ALL the integers before some moment.

You're implicitly describing eternal time as 'time that began an infinite number of hours ago' instead of 'time that never began'. How can you not see that that is begging the question?

 

[untermensche]

I'm not making any slices.

I'm modeling infinite time. It is the amount of time it would take to recite ALL the integers.

Claiming the time before some moment was infinite is to claim it was possible for someone to recite ALL the integers before some moment.

You're implicitly describing eternal time as 'time that began an infinite number of hours ago' instead of 'time that never began'. How can you not see that that is begging the question?

I am describing an amount of time.

The amount of time in infinite time.

The amount of time needed to recite ALL the integers.

Nothing is being begged. That is out of left field and desperate.

 

[beero1000]

You're implicitly describing eternal time as 'time that began an infinite number of hours ago' instead of 'time that never began'. How can you not see that that is begging the question?

I am describing an amount of time.

The amount of time in infinite time.

The amount of time needed to recite ALL the integers.

Nothing is being begged. That is out of left field and desperate.

You really don't see it. Amazing.

 

[untermensche]

I am describing an amount of time.

The amount of time in infinite time.

The amount of time needed to recite ALL the integers.

Nothing is being begged. That is out of left field and desperate.

You really don't see it. Amazing.

Nothing to see.

You simply do not want infinite time modeled in any way to actually check your absurd claims.

If you can recite ALL the integers in the past then it was infinite. If you can't, it could not possibly be infinite.

 

[beero1000]

You really don't see it. Amazing.

Nothing to see.

You simply do not want infinite time modeled in any way to actually check your absurd claims.

If you can recite ALL the integers in the past then it was infinite. If you can't, it could not possibly be infinite.

If I recited ALL the integers in the past, then when did I recite the number 1?

 

[untermensche]

Nothing to see.

You simply do not want infinite time modeled in any way to actually check your absurd claims.

If you can recite ALL the integers in the past then it was infinite. If you can't, it could not possibly be infinite.

If I recited ALL the integers in the past, then when did I recite the number 1?

That is your problem.

You are the one claiming it could be possible.

If there was infinite time there is time to recite ALL the integers.

 

[Juma]

My comment was aimed at the post above your post. Sorry.

- - - Updated - - -

The whole thing in one sentence.

It is as possible for there to have been infinite time before some moment in time as it is to count all the integers before that moment in time.

What part of this do you have problem with:
Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

You have just stated something. Not shown anything.

Is it possible to count through ALL the integers?

Answer that and you should understand without any further help.

Help?
You seems to need help understanding:
Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

Show me one is needed.

What specific problem do you have? Who told you this was nevessary?

If you want to see if infinite time in the past is possible you can model infinite time in some way to see if it is possible.

Do you have a problem with the model?

Infinite time is the amount of time needed to count through ALL the integers.

Now when we try to apply this model to the time that has passed before any given moment you can see it is impossible infinite time could have ended before any moment.

My specific problem is that you have repeatedly stated that time must have started a finite time ago. Yet have you failed to give a logically sound argument for that position.

What model do you refer to?
Counting integers is not a valid model of time. Counting requires time which makes your ”model of time” dependent on time... fail!


Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.
Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

 

[Juma]

If I recited ALL the integers in the past, then when did I recite the number 1?

That is your problem.

You are the one claiming it could be possible.

If there was infinite time there is time to recite ALL the integers.

Simple: you just count down to 1.... rofl...

 

[untermensche]

That is your problem.

You are the one claiming it could be possible.

If there was infinite time there is time to recite ALL the integers.

Simple: you just count down to 1.... rofl...

That is counting through ALL the integers?

Since you have counted them all which is the last?

 

[untermensche]

My specific problem is that you have repeatedly stated that time must have started a finite time ago. Yet have you failed to give a logically sound argument for that position.

That is your opinion. Good luck with it.

Tell me in your own words what I have said.

Tell me what I am claiming is the point.

 

[bilby]

 

[untermensche]

You have no logic.

You think it is possible to count through ALL the integers in the past.

You do not think very well.

 

[bilby]

You have no logic.

You think it is possible to count through ALL the integers in the past.

You do not think very well.

I don't know to whom you are directing your comment here, but that's fucking rich, coming from someone who has presented nothing but circular arguments, question-begging, equivocation, and straw-man fallacies throughout the thread - and who even presents a straw-man argument as part of his claim that other's do not think very well.

Feel free to quote anyone (other than yourself) making the claim in this thread that it "is possible to count through ALL the integers in the past", if you can - but I am pretty confident that nobody has made any such claim in this thread.

 

[untermensche]

You have no logic.

You think it is possible to count through ALL the integers in the past.

You do not think very well.

I don't know to whom you are directing your comment here, but that's fucking rich, coming from someone who has presented nothing but circular arguments, question-begging, equivocation, and straw-man fallacies throughout the thread - and who even presents a straw-man argument as part of his claim that other's do not think very well.

Feel free to quote anyone (other than yourself) making the claim in this thread that it "is possible to count through ALL the integers in the past", if you can - but I am pretty confident that nobody has made any such claim in this thread.

Your claim is that it is possible that infinite time somehow passed in the past.

You claim that before any moment infinite moments went before it.

That is just like saying you had enough time to count ALL the integers since their number is infinite.

Unfortunately none of this makes sense to you. It is far above your head.

 

[fromderinside]

 

[untermensche]

It is far from dead.

It is undeniable.

If somebody actually has infinite time in the past they have enough time to count ALL the integers.

The idea of any real infinity completing is a joke.

 

[George S]

I don't know to whom you are directing your comment here, but that's fucking rich, coming from someone who has presented nothing but circular arguments, question-begging, equivocation, and straw-man fallacies throughout the thread - and who even presents a straw-man argument as part of his claim that other's do not think very well.

Feel free to quote anyone (other than yourself) making the claim in this thread that it "is possible to count through ALL the integers in the past", if you can - but I am pretty confident that nobody has made any such claim in this thread.

Your claim is that it is possible that infinite time somehow passed in the past.

You claim that before any moment infinite moments went before it.

That is just like saying you had enough time to count ALL the integers since their number is infinite.

Unfortunately none of this makes sense to you. It is far above your head.

The thing is there are different infinities. How do you rule out all the other infinities than the simplest countable infinity?
How do you know what you claim to know?
[YOUTUBE]23I5GS4JiDg[/YOUTUBE]

 

[untermensche]

Because we are talking about time. Not something without dimension.

It can be modeled with the integers.

1 hour ago, 2 hours ago, and so on...

If a simple model works there is nothing that forces me to use a more complicated one.

 

[bilby]

Because we are talking about time. Not something without dimension.

It can be modeled with the integers.

1 hour ago, 2 hours ago, and so on...

If a simple model works there is nothing that forces me to use a more complicated one.

If we model the past in the way you outline, what is the highest possible number of 'hours ago'?