What does it mean for something to be "logically possible"?

[WAB]

Maybe some humor? Humor makes everything better.

"Five, is RIGHT OUT!"

 

[Juma]

No - infinite means 'uncountable'.

Do you think they don't exist unless someone does?

Infinite integers means integers without a final integer.

You cannot complete the count before any moment in time. You cannot complete the count EVER.

If you can't see how this means infinite moments in time could not have passed before any moment you are beyond hope.

Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

 

[untermensche]

Infinite integers means integers without a final integer.

You cannot complete the count before any moment in time. You cannot complete the count EVER.

If you can't see how this means infinite moments in time could not have passed before any moment you are beyond hope.

Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

What specific part are you struggling with?

Some say that infinite time can pass if it just has enough time.

If you just have enough time can you count ALL the integers?

Claiming that infinite time has already passed before some moment is like claiming you have counted ALL the integers before that moment.

Clearly impossible.

The counting of the integers never ends. Infinite time never ends. Even if you describe it strangely as never beginning. Something that has no real world meaning.

Neither could possibly have occurred before any given moment.

 

[beero1000]

Infinite integers means integers without a final integer.

You cannot complete the count before any moment in time. You cannot complete the count EVER.

If you can't see how this means infinite moments in time could not have passed before any moment you are beyond hope.

Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

He's just going to repost the same shit 'argument', with the same gigantically obvious holes you could drive a battleship through, while remaining too blind to see them. Maybe he'll even throw in a mild insult or two, or project his own misunderstandings on everyone else. Nothing but a completely predictable waste of time.

ETA: See?

 

[bilby]

No - infinite means 'uncountable'.

Do you think they don't exist unless someone does?

Infinite integers means integers without a final integer.

You cannot complete the count before any moment in time. You cannot complete the count EVER.

If you can't see how this means infinite moments in time could not have passed before any moment you are beyond hope.

Then I am both beyond hope, and (unlike you) correct.

It's a good thing that your hopes are not my concern.

 

[untermensche]

Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

He's just going to repost the same shit 'argument', with the same gigantically obvious holes you could drive a battleship through, while remaining too blind to see them. Maybe he'll even throw in a mild insult or two, or project his own misunderstandings on everyone else. Nothing but a completely predictable waste of time.

ETA: See?

The hole is so huge you can't even name it.

You have made nothing but one bad worthless argument after another. Your stupidity is amazing.

Can you count ALL the integers before some moment in time?

 

[untermensche]

The fool told me if he just had enough time he could count all the integers.

So I gave him all the time he wanted.

He can't seem to finish.

 

[untermensche]

Infinite integers means integers without a final integer.

You cannot complete the count before any moment in time. You cannot complete the count EVER.

If you can't see how this means infinite moments in time could not have passed before any moment you are beyond hope.

Then I am both beyond hope, and (unlike you) correct.

It's a good thing that your hopes are not my concern.

Get back to me right after you count through all the integers.

 

[untermensche]

What would we call these people who think if you just have enough time you could count through all the integers?

How would we define their ignorance and stupidity?

We know their names.

 

[beero1000]

He's just going to repost the same shit 'argument', with the same gigantically obvious holes you could drive a battleship through, while remaining too blind to see them. Maybe he'll even throw in a mild insult or two, or project his own misunderstandings on everyone else. Nothing but a completely predictable waste of time.

ETA: See?

The hole is so huge you can't even name it.

You have made nothing but one bad worthless argument after another. Your stupidity is amazing.

Can you count ALL the integers before some moment in time?

Nailed it.

 

[untermensche]

I know people want some kind of formal argument, but this is not an argument. It is merely a demonstration that some idea, the idea of an infinite past, is absurd on it's face and breaks down into absurdity when you try to apply it.

If an idea is absurd when you try to apply it, to believe it is true is irrational.

Those that propose this absurdity that time in the past is infinite have one goal. They do not want "infinite time" modeled or explained in any way. They want it remain obscure, "time with no beginning", "a line with no beginning".

But to model infinite time is easy.

It is the amount of time needed to count all the integers. I'll make it easier. The time needed to count only the even integers.

So saying the time in the past is infinite is like saying there was enough time for somebody to count all the even integers.

But counting all the even integers is impossible. It cannot be done no matter how much time you have.

So to say an amount of time needed to count all the even integers existed in the past is absurd on it's face.

Infinite time in the past is an idea that is absurd on it's face.

No argument is needed. You merely need to model infinite time and try to apply it.

 

[Juma]

Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

What specific part are you struggling with?

Some say that infinite time can pass if it just has enough time.

If you just have enough time can you count ALL the integers?

Claiming that infinite time has already passed before some moment is like claiming you have counted ALL the integers before that moment.

Clearly impossible.

The counting of the integers never ends. Infinite time never ends. Even if you describe it strangely as never beginning. Something that has no real world meaning.

Neither could possibly have occurred before any given moment.

What pat of this do you have problem with:
Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

 

[untermensche]

Maybe you should read the post right before the one you just made.

 

[untermensche]

The whole thing in one sentence.

It is as possible for there to have been infinite time before some moment in time as it is to count all the integers before that moment in time.

 

[George S]

The whole thing in one sentence.

It is as possible for there to have been infinite time before some moment in time as it is to count all the integers before that moment in time.

(emphasis added.)

The mathematics of infinity is non-intuitive sometimes. It breaks common sense. The initial reaction is "No way!" Then you see a proof.

In this video https://youtu.be/P913qwtXihk you will find a proof that (1+2+3+4+5+...) = -1/12. The proof uses addition and subtraction only.
The above proof presupposes that the Grandi series (1-1+1-1+1-1+...) = 1/2 which is proved here: https://youtu.be/yudhkUUzAgY

It is as possible for there to have been infinite time before some moment in time as it is to add up the positive integers and reach -1/12.

ETA: Go ahead, untermensche, and waste 15 minutes of your life and watch these. Try to understand. Really try. It takes only 5th grade math. Good Luck.

 

[abaddon]

Some say that infinite time can pass if it just has enough time.

You're trying to fit infinite time inside of passing time, as if they're two different things.

Don't split your metaphors. Don't conclude "logically impossible" from not being able to fit two images of time together. Then you won't have the problem you're having.

Claiming that infinite time has already passed before some moment is like claiming you have counted ALL the integers before that moment. Clearly impossible

The "counting" image is about passing time again. It's another example of you trying to say that infinite (uncountable) time cannot fit into passing (countable) time.

No argument is needed. You merely need to model infinite time and try to apply it.

Argument is needed. Can't make argument = an incomplete thought.

Modeling time as both passing time and infinite time = confused thought.

You're trying to fit two different kinds of time together, and that's where your notion of impossibility comes from: two mental images that won't fit together.

 

[untermensche]

No you try to count ALL the integers.

Don't give me some bullshit it is possible.

There is no trick to allow you to count ALL the integers. You have to count ALL of them.

There is no trick that can allow infinite time to pass.

 

[abaddon]

No, you should try to explain how time needs time.

Some say that infinite time can pass if it just has enough time.

 

[Juma]

The whole thing in one sentence.

It is as possible for there to have been infinite time before some moment in time as it is to count all the integers before that moment in time.

What part of this do you have problem with:
Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

You have just stated something. Not shown anything.

 

[untermensche]

No, you should try to explain how time needs time.

Some say that infinite time can pass if it just has enough time.

My comment was aimed at the post above your post. Sorry.

- - - Updated - - -

The whole thing in one sentence.

It is as possible for there to have been infinite time before some moment in time as it is to count all the integers before that moment in time.

What part of this do you have problem with:
Show with a complete argument that the hypotesis ”time has always been” must be wrong.

You have just stated something. Not shown anything.

Is it possible to count through ALL the integers?

Answer that and you should understand without any further help.