What my female senior executive boss told me today

[Metaphor]

An update. She's really been very friendly on most occasions, but it's interspersed with these bizarre comments.

For example, last week our team left the floor for a team meeting. "Going to a big meeting?", she asked. Then, almost as an afterthought "all the blokes...."

I guess I should be happy that she would consider me a 'bloke' instead of the mincing queen that I actually am. It's nice she can look past my sexual orientation and judge me simply on gender.

 

[Toni]

Glad it seems to be going well.

Seems like maybe she's a little...lonely? for female company. Re: All the blokes comment.

Honestly, it is hard to imagine that she'd have any issues with your orientation. Good heavens, my first obviously gay boss was 20+ years ago. Heh, most of that department was gay, now that I think about it. It wasn't a big deal.

 

[laughing dog]

An update. She's really been very friendly on most occasions, but it's interspersed with these bizarre comments.

For example, last week our team left the floor for a team meeting. "Going to a big meeting?", she asked. Then, almost as an afterthought "all the blokes...."

I guess I should be happy that she would consider me a 'bloke' instead of the mincing queen that I actually am. It's nice she can look past my sexual orientation and judge me simply on gender.

It might be the case that she feels a little bit uneasy dealing with mostly "blokes". Give it more time, and she may become even more at ease with the gender balance in her overall workplace. Some people just take time to feel adjusted to a new environment.

But, it does seem to going okay for you. Here's to hoping for even more improvement.

 

[Horatio Parker]

An update. She's really been very friendly on most occasions, but it's interspersed with these bizarre comments.

For example, last week our team left the floor for a team meeting. "Going to a big meeting?", she asked. Then, almost as an afterthought "all the blokes...."

I guess I should be happy that she would consider me a 'bloke' instead of the mincing queen that I actually am. It's nice she can look past my sexual orientation and judge me simply on gender.

I'm guessing she knows you're gay. She may consider you sympathetic, perhaps a confidant capable of appreciating and understanding the alienation she sometimes feels.

 

[Rhea]

Yesterday, I started a new job (a promotion to a different Australian government Department -- yay me!).

Today, I met my boss's boss's boss. To put it into perspective, I am at the top level of the 'ordinary' public service grade (called APS), my line manager is executive level 1 (EL1) , above him is the executive level 2, and above EL2 is the first rank of senior executive service (SES band 1), so this was my first contact with a senior executive in the organisation who is directly above me in the chain of command and will have significant power, if she chooses, over my future prospects in the Department.

Literally, quite literally, the first words out of her mouth were an unveiled jab at my gender and the gender composition of my team. "Hi, the latest addition...to this all-male team. We'll have to see what we can do about that". For context, I work in a small team of five people, all of whom were selected because we have extensive data analysis and evaluation experience, and not because we had penises.

What would you do if you were in my position?

Say, "wow, lotsa choices for you! I'm not sure what kind of 'what' you were thinking to 'do,' but you'll have to count me out, I'm gay."

 

[Rhea]

An update. She's really been very friendly on most occasions, but it's interspersed with these bizarre comments.

For example, last week our team left the floor for a team meeting. "Going to a big meeting?", she asked. Then, almost as an afterthought "all the blokes...."

I guess I should be happy that she would consider me a 'bloke' instead of the mincing queen that I actually am. It's nice she can look past my sexual orientation and judge me simply on gender.

That's kind of ironically funny.

By the way, congrats on your promotion!

One possible way to look at this is that she has probably heard woman-disparaging or women-pointing-out comments constantly for years and may think this is an acceptable kind of banter. Just a thought. As a female engineer, I hear that stuff ALL THE TIME and sometimes I try to joke back in kind.

 

[Bomb#20]

"Hi, the latest addition...to this all-male team. We'll have to see what we can do about that". For context, I work in a small team of five people, all of whom were selected because we have extensive data analysis and evaluation experience, and not because we had penises.

What would you do if you were in my position?
...
An update. She's really been very friendly on most occasions, but it's interspersed with these bizarre comments.

For example, last week our team left the floor for a team meeting. "Going to a big meeting?", she asked. Then, almost as an afterthought "all the blokes...."

I guess I should be happy that she would consider me a 'bloke' instead of the mincing queen that I actually am. It's nice she can look past my sexual orientation and judge me simply on gender.

Does she know you're gay? If she may not know, and if you think there's any chance she was serious about the "We'll have to see what we can do about that" bit, then I'd suggest finding a casual way to accidentally let her know. That way if she's ever tempted to hurt you for being male she'll think twice about it from worry that you'd accuse her of hurting you for being gay.

 

[Metaphor]

"Hi, the latest addition...to this all-male team. We'll have to see what we can do about that". For context, I work in a small team of five people, all of whom were selected because we have extensive data analysis and evaluation experience, and not because we had penises.

What would you do if you were in my position?
...
An update. She's really been very friendly on most occasions, but it's interspersed with these bizarre comments.

For example, last week our team left the floor for a team meeting. "Going to a big meeting?", she asked. Then, almost as an afterthought "all the blokes...."

I guess I should be happy that she would consider me a 'bloke' instead of the mincing queen that I actually am. It's nice she can look past my sexual orientation and judge me simply on gender.

Does she know you're gay? If she may not know, and if you think there's any chance she was serious about the "We'll have to see what we can do about that" bit, then I'd suggest finding a casual way to accidentally let her know. That way if she's ever tempted to hurt you for being male she'll think twice about it from worry that you'd accuse her of hurting you for being gay.

I don't know what the people in my team know or suspect, but I haven't outright told anyone.

However, if the climate on certain feminist websites and blogs is anything to go by, cisgender able-bodied gay white male is only one vanishingly thin notch less evil than cisgender able-bodied straight white male. They're even been kvetching over the fact that the gay marriage movement has been championed by influential gay white males.

 

[bigfield]

They're even been kvetching over the fact that the gay marriage movement has been championed by influential gay white males.

Using able-bodied white cis-male privilege to reduce straight privilege?

 

[mojorising]

Today, I met my boss's boss's boss. To put it into perspective, I am at the top level of the 'ordinary' public service grade (called APS), my line manager is executive level 1 (EL1) , above him is the executive level 2, and above EL2 is the first rank of senior executive service (SES band 1), so this was my first contact with a senior executive in the organisation who is directly above me in the chain of command and will have significant power, if she chooses, over my future prospects in the Department.

I do a fair bit of contract work for the commonwealth in Canberra.

I have met a couple of female SES over the years.

I have never encountered any kind of attitude like the one you describe. It sounds a bit unprofessional to me.

If they are 3 pay grades up what are you going to do? Not much I would suggest from a practical career management perspective. Not likely to be a day to day problem for you unless you are a direct report.

The whole positive discrimination thing is kind of bollix in a way. I read some interesting stuff about how gender imbalance could be as much about difference in the aspirations of the sexes as much as discrimination. e.g. men may have a stronger genetic disposition to pursue positions of power since power is one of the things that makes men attractive to women.

 

[Bomb#20]

I don't know what the people in my team know or suspect, but I haven't outright told anyone.

However, if the climate on certain feminist websites and blogs is anything to go by, cisgender able-bodied gay white male is only one vanishingly thin notch less evil than cisgender able-bodied straight white male. They're even been kvetching over the fact that the gay marriage movement has been championed by influential gay white males.

I don't doubt it; but the point isn't to elevate you out of her outgroup. It's to alert her that you outrank her in the victimization hierarchy.

 

[Metaphor]

I don't know what the people in my team know or suspect, but I haven't outright told anyone.

However, if the climate on certain feminist websites and blogs is anything to go by, cisgender able-bodied gay white male is only one vanishingly thin notch less evil than cisgender able-bodied straight white male. They're even been kvetching over the fact that the gay marriage movement has been championed by influential gay white males.

I don't doubt it; but the point isn't to elevate you out of her outgroup. It's to alert her that you outrank her in the victimization hierarchy.

What makes you think she would think I outrank her? We're both cis-gender white people (though she's Anglo white and I'm woggy Slavic white, so she's slightly whiter). So it's down to whether 'gay' outranks 'woman' in the minority stakes, holding other identity politics traits constant. And I don't think it does.

 

[Toni]

I don't doubt it; but the point isn't to elevate you out of her outgroup. It's to alert her that you outrank her in the victimization hierarchy.

What makes you think she would think I outrank her? We're both cis-gender white people (though she's Anglo white and I'm woggy Slavic white, so she's slightly whiter). So it's down to whether 'gay' outranks 'woman' in the minority stakes, holding other identity politics traits constant. And I don't think it does.

I think you are right. Gay rights have all the juice right now. Women are still at the bottom of the heap.

 

[J842P]

What makes you think she would think I outrank her? We're both cis-gender white people (though she's Anglo white and I'm woggy Slavic white, so she's slightly whiter). So it's down to whether 'gay' outranks 'woman' in the minority stakes, holding other identity politics traits constant. And I don't think it does.

I think you are right. Gay rights have all the juice right now. Women are still at the bottom of the heap.

But they are ranked in inverse order of privilege.

 

[bigfield]

What makes you think she would think I outrank her? We're both cis-gender white people (though she's Anglo white and I'm woggy Slavic white, so she's slightly whiter). So it's down to whether 'gay' outranks 'woman' in the minority stakes, holding other identity politics traits constant. And I don't think it does.

I think you are right. Gay rights have all the juice right now. Women are still at the bottom of the heap.

Right at the bottom, under Indigenous people, transgendered people, Muslims, etc...

 

[Toni]

I think you are right. Gay rights have all the juice right now. Women are still at the bottom of the heap.

Right at the bottom, under Indigenous people, transgendered people, Muslims, etc...

Huh. I should not have forgotten indigenous people, who are only above blacks in the US and only sometimes. Elevated in movies, though. Just not in reality.

Maybe it's different in Australia but Muslims are not at the bottom of the heap here. Nor are transgendered individuals, who occupy their own special category of either love or hate, depending.

 

[Bomb#20]

I don't doubt it; but the point isn't to elevate you out of her outgroup. It's to alert her that you outrank her in the victimization hierarchy.

What makes you think she would think I outrank her? We're both cis-gender white people (though she's Anglo white and I'm woggy Slavic white, so she's slightly whiter). So it's down to whether 'gay' outranks 'woman' in the minority stakes, holding other identity politics traits constant. And I don't think it does.

Hey, you know Australian identity politics better than I do. Come to think of it, the last time I was there I don't think I ever heard the term "sheila". But even if you don't outrank her the principle remains: if you think there might be a mountain lion stalking you you do whatever you can to make yourself look larger.