What should Israel do?

[Loren Pechtel]

The issue is why the Palestinians need aid.

They need it because they are being crushed by a much stronger power.

As always you blame Israel for what Hamas is doing.

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So...surprisingly enough, no one has mentioned, in this thread or others that I've seen, the report that Israel is now planning to annex about one thousand acres of arable West Bank land. Israel will take the land and settle it, regardless of Palestinian protestations. So, really, how the can anyone not consider this a completely one-sided conflict? The PA simply has no power to stop Israel and the rocket launches and tunnels from Hamas won't do anything for it either. To get back to the original question of the thread of what Israel should do...this isn't it.

This is a reaction to the kidnapping.

I wouldn't mind one bit if they were taking it from Hamas but it's West Bank, not Gaza.

(In the big picture it doesn't really mean much anyway as the land in question is between Israel itself and a major settlement and behind the wall. It's an area that would almost certainly end up in Israel with any reasonable land swaps.)

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, they're being starved--by Hamas.

At least 90% of the evil you keep ranting about is actually due to Hamas, not Israel.

Not to mention 10%-20% of their rockets that fell into Gaza rather than Israel--including the hit on the Al-Shifa hospital. How many of the civilian casualties were due to them?

Hamas is not conducting an illegal quarantine. Hamas has not forbidden trade via boat or the air. Hamas has not destroyed the infrastructure of Gaza over and over.

Israel is strangling the Palestinians. Not Hamas.

1) Learn English. There's no quarantine. You apparently do not know what the word means.

2) Their blockade is legal. It's an accepted tactic in war. They could go a lot farther than they do and still be within the law.

 

[Samhain]

As always you blame Israel for what Hamas is doing.

- - - Updated - - -

So...surprisingly enough, no one has mentioned, in this thread or others that I've seen, the report that Israel is now planning to annex about one thousand acres of arable West Bank land. Israel will take the land and settle it, regardless of Palestinian protestations. So, really, how the can anyone not consider this a completely one-sided conflict? The PA simply has no power to stop Israel and the rocket launches and tunnels from Hamas won't do anything for it either. To get back to the original question of the thread of what Israel should do...this isn't it.

This is a reaction to the kidnapping.

I wouldn't mind one bit if they were taking it from Hamas but it's West Bank, not Gaza.

(In the big picture it doesn't really mean much anyway as the land in question is between Israel itself and a major settlement and behind the wall. It's an area that would almost certainly end up in Israel with any reasonable land swaps.)

Loren downright defending theft of land now...is there any act, no matter how immoral, that you won't defend as long as it's Israel doing it?

 

[untermensche]

Hamas is not conducting an illegal quarantine. Hamas has not forbidden trade via boat or the air. Hamas has not destroyed the infrastructure of Gaza over and over.

Israel is strangling the Palestinians. Not Hamas.

1) Learn English. There's no quarantine. You apparently do not know what the word means.

2) Their blockade is legal. It's an accepted tactic in war. They could go a lot farther than they do and still be within the law.

It is true that a blockade is an act of war. It is an act of war against Palestinian civilians.

But there is no war.

There is this tyrannical aggressor that has been torturing and oppressing the Palestinians for decades with the help of the US. And there is resistance to this brutal aggression.

That is not war. Not even close.

 

[Jayjay]

As always you blame Israel for what Hamas is doing.

- - - Updated - - -

So...surprisingly enough, no one has mentioned, in this thread or others that I've seen, the report that Israel is now planning to annex about one thousand acres of arable West Bank land. Israel will take the land and settle it, regardless of Palestinian protestations. So, really, how the can anyone not consider this a completely one-sided conflict? The PA simply has no power to stop Israel and the rocket launches and tunnels from Hamas won't do anything for it either. To get back to the original question of the thread of what Israel should do...this isn't it.

This is a reaction to the kidnapping.

I wouldn't mind one bit if they were taking it from Hamas but it's West Bank, not Gaza.

(In the big picture it doesn't really mean much anyway as the land in question is between Israel itself and a major settlement and behind the wall. It's an area that would almost certainly end up in Israel with any reasonable land swaps.)

This defense is such a load of bullshit that I don't know where to begin.

First, you are saying that it is a reaction to a kidnapping, but admit that it is targeted towards the people who didn't do the kidnapping attempt. Hello, how does that justify it in any way? When Israel captures or kills Hamas militants, does that mean Palestinians are entitled to get some land from Israel in return?

Second, the justification that Israel can just take the land because it would end up with Israel anyway in a "reasonable land swap". But the point is that it is not a land swap, it is unilateral annexation. Israel is taking land now, but it is not giving anything in exchange.

Third, who gets to decide what is "reasonable"? If I were to buy a car from you, but your asking price is higher than what I am willing to pay, am I entitled to just steal your car because you are being unreasonable?

Fourth, if Israel is somehow entitled to land because it happens to be between Israel and settlements, you are ignoring that the settlements themselves are similarly carving up Palestinian land into unreachable enclaves. The solution is not to add land to Israel to reach the settlements, it is to dismantle the settlements that shouldn't be there to begin with.

Fifith, you are basically admitting that the wall as it has been built is not protecting Israel and Israeli settlements, but has been deliberately built to cordon off Palestinian privately owned land. And it also puts a nail in the coffin in your oft repeated canard that Israel is not expanding the settlements but just "filling them in". If that were the case, there would be no need to annex more land.

 

[untermensche]

As always you blame Israel for what Hamas is doing.

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This is a reaction to the kidnapping.

I wouldn't mind one bit if they were taking it from Hamas but it's West Bank, not Gaza.

(In the big picture it doesn't really mean much anyway as the land in question is between Israel itself and a major settlement and behind the wall. It's an area that would almost certainly end up in Israel with any reasonable land swaps.)

This defense is such a load of bullshit that I don't know where to begin.

First, you are saying that it is a reaction to a kidnapping, but admit that it is targeted towards the people who didn't do the kidnapping attempt. Hello, how does that justify it in any way? When Israel captures or kills Hamas militants, does that mean Palestinians are entitled to get some land from Israel in return?

Second, the justification that Israel can just take the land because it would end up with Israel anyway in a "reasonable land swap". But the point is that it is not a land swap, it is unilateral annexation. Israel is taking land now, but it is not giving anything in exchange.

Third, who gets to decide what is "reasonable"? If I were to buy a car from you, but your asking price is higher than what I am willing to pay, am I entitled to just steal your car because you are being unreasonable?

Fourth, if Israel is somehow entitled to land because it happens to be between Israel and settlements, you are ignoring that the settlements themselves are similarly carving up Palestinian land into unreachable enclaves. The solution is not to add land to Israel to reach the settlements, it is to dismantle the settlements that shouldn't be there to begin with.

Fifith, you are basically admitting that the wall as it has been built is not protecting Israel and Israeli settlements, but has been deliberately built to cordon off Palestinian privately owned land. And it also puts a nail in the coffin in your oft repeated canard that Israel is not expanding the settlements but just "filling them in". If that were the case, there would be no need to annex more land.

This is nothing new for Israel.

Kill and steal and if anybody complains kill some more. They have been doing it for decades.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) Learn English. There's no quarantine. You apparently do not know what the word means.

2) Their blockade is legal. It's an accepted tactic in war. They could go a lot farther than they do and still be within the law.

It is true that a blockade is an act of war. It is an act of war against Palestinian civilians.

But there is no war.

There is this tyrannical aggressor that has been torturing and oppressing the Palestinians for decades with the help of the US. And there is resistance to this brutal aggression.

That is not war. Not even close.

Armies are firing ordinance at each other. That's a war in my book.

 

[Arctish]

As always you blame Israel for what Hamas is doing.

- - - Updated - - -

So...surprisingly enough, no one has mentioned, in this thread or others that I've seen, the report that Israel is now planning to annex about one thousand acres of arable West Bank land. Israel will take the land and settle it, regardless of Palestinian protestations. So, really, how the can anyone not consider this a completely one-sided conflict? The PA simply has no power to stop Israel and the rocket launches and tunnels from Hamas won't do anything for it either. To get back to the original question of the thread of what Israel should do...this isn't it.

This is a reaction to the kidnapping.

No, it's not. Israel began the process of seizing this parcel of land months ago, well before the kidnappings. I linked to the Haaretz article about it in another thread to show you that your claim that Israel had stopped taking Palestinian land was false.

Netanyahu is lying when he says this is a reaction to the kidnappings. It was in the works long before the students went missing.

I wouldn't mind one bit if they were taking it from Hamas but it's West Bank, not Gaza.

(In the big picture it doesn't really mean much anyway as the land in question is between Israel itself and a major settlement and behind the wall. It's an area that would almost certainly end up in Israel with any reasonable land swaps.)

Reasonable meaning Israel gets to keep everything it has stolen? I would call that unreasonable, just as I call what Israel is doing provocative, wrong-headed, and counter-productive.

 

[arkirk]

Hamas is not conducting an illegal quarantine. Hamas has not forbidden trade via boat or the air. Hamas has not destroyed the infrastructure of Gaza over and over.

Israel is strangling the Palestinians. Not Hamas.

1) Learn English. There's no quarantine. You apparently do not know what the word means.

2) Their blockade is legal. It's an accepted tactic in war. They could go a lot farther than they do and still be within the law.

What war are you talking about. The blockade would probably be legal in the Devil's Court if there was such a thing as a Devil....no Hamas is not the Devil. You have such unbridled hatred for these people it astounds me.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) Learn English. There's no quarantine. You apparently do not know what the word means.

2) Their blockade is legal. It's an accepted tactic in war. They could go a lot farther than they do and still be within the law.

What war are you talking about. The blockade would probably be legal in the Devil's Court if there was such a thing as a Devil....no Hamas is not the Devil. You have such unbridled hatred for these people it astounds me.

Rockets fly east. Bombs go west. That sounds like a war to me.

 

[untermensche]

What war are you talking about. The blockade would probably be legal in the Devil's Court if there was such a thing as a Devil....no Hamas is not the Devil. You have such unbridled hatred for these people it astounds me.

Rockets fly east. Bombs go west. That sounds like a war to me.

Israel oppresses people until they resist with violence then Israel oppresses some more.

That isn't war by any definition. It is decades of violent oppression and the natural response.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Rockets fly east. Bombs go west. That sounds like a war to me.

Israel oppresses people until they resist with violence then Israel oppresses some more.

That isn't war by any definition. It is decades of violent oppression and the natural response.

When two armies are shooting at each other it's war.

 

[untermensche]

Israel oppresses people until they resist with violence then Israel oppresses some more.

That isn't war by any definition. It is decades of violent oppression and the natural response.

When two armies are shooting at each other it's war.

As soon as the Palestinians are given the right to have an army you'll have a point.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

When two armies are shooting at each other it's war.

As soon as the Palestinians are given the right to have an army you'll have a point.

Hamas waddles and quacks.

 

[untermensche]

As soon as the Palestinians are given the right to have an army you'll have a point.

Hamas waddles and quacks.

What modern army has no tanks or planes or anti-aircraft weaponry or artillery?

Doesn't look a thing like a duck.

 

[HaRaAYaH]

Hamas waddles and quacks.

What modern army has no tanks or planes or anti-aircraft weaponry or artillery?

Doesn't look a thing like a duck.

What non army has 10,000 surface to surface missiles.

Every Boy Scout Troop has some of these babies......

 

[untermensche]

Looks like a bunch of third rate low impact weaponry.

Again, what modern army has no tanks, no planes, no artillery?

It is a joke to call this desperate band an army. Just not a very funny joke.

 

[HaRaAYaH]

Looks like a bunch of third rate low impact weaponry.

Again, what modern army has no tanks, no planes, no artillery?

It is a joke to call this desperate band an army. Just not a very funny joke.

No you are fact impaired. And when you are shown to be factually incorrect, you just change the subject. First it's no army at all. Second it's ok it's an army not just a modern one. Second rate weapons and all. You of course ignose the fact they possesed

10,000 surface to surface missiles.​

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What besides an army possess those. Not the most militarized police force and not any national guard. They may be poorly equipped and and they may be mismatched in relation to their opponent, but they are an army none the less. Unless you know of any other type of group that would posses these weapons.

By the way the dictionary says:

ar·my
ˈärmē/
noun
noun: army; plural noun: armies

an organized military force equipped for fighting on land.
"the two armies were in position"
synonyms: armed force, military force, land force, military, soldiery, infantry, militia;
troops, soldiers;

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hamas waddles and quacks.

What modern army has no tanks or planes or anti-aircraft weaponry or artillery?

Doesn't look a thing like a duck.

1) Hamas *HAS* artillery.

2) The lack of certain weapon systems might make it a low-tech army, that's not the same as not an army.

 

[arkirk]

What modern army has no tanks or planes or anti-aircraft weaponry or artillery?

Doesn't look a thing like a duck.

1) Hamas *HAS* artillery.

2) The lack of certain weapon systems might make it a low-tech army, that's not the same as not an army.

It is the billions in U.S. aid to Israel that makes this all possible. As for your hatred of Hamas...why? As for our billions in aid to Israel also I ask why. This is a proxy war. The only thing I cannot understand about it is whether or not it is war for war's sake. All of Loren's arguments have not convinced me it is anything else.