What should Israel do?

[Loren Pechtel]

The pattern I was referring to is the countries with the lowest literacy rates are mostly Muslim.

Whether the low literacy rate is a result of poverty is irrelevant to whether they exist in the first place. And note that those aren't the poorest places on Earth, either.

I just pulled lists off Nationmaster of literacy and % Muslim, filling in blanks from the CIA factbook--and I get a -.41 correlation from admittedly poor data. The odds of that being chance are less than 1 in a million.

You have a CIA factbook? Isn't that classified? Why was the U.S. and Canada not compared on the listing of Nationmaster? Did you note how well the communist countries did? And Cuba right on the top. There is no doubt that Muslim countries have a late start on literacy. Many also have a late start on being a Muslim country. As usual, your information seems to come from questionable sources. Just saying a lot of your bogeyman countries scored very high on the literacy scale.

Pay a little attention to the world.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

A very good source for stats on the countries of the world, my main objection is the formatting isn't good for comparisons. It took 30 seconds to get the data from Nationmaster to Excel, 30 minutes to fill in the holes from the CIA data.

And you're not addressing why there is such a strong link.

 

[angelo]

Blaming the victims now, are we?

It seems to me there are lots of people to blame besides the Palestinians. Hitler, for example. But you'd rather blame the Palestinians, because you hate them. Worse than Hitler apparently.

I think you are sadly mistaken if you think the Palestinians are the victims.

 

[untermensche]

Blaming the victims now, are we?

It seems to me there are lots of people to blame besides the Palestinians. Hitler, for example. But you'd rather blame the Palestinians, because you hate them. Worse than Hitler apparently.

I think you are sadly mistaken if you think the Palestinians are the victims.

Right. Israel is the victim of the blockade, and the strangulation of the Palestinian economy. A victim of the fact that Palestinians don't have the same rights as Israelis. Israel is a victim of the theft of all that land to build illegal settlements. Israel is the victim of squeezing the Palestinians into a smaller and smaller part of the West Bank every year.

Why doesn't anyone understand?

 

[angelo]

Non. It is Islam interpreted by extremists branches of Islam while millions of other Muslims do not interpret it that way. What type of scholarly credentials do you hold allowing you to declare that the brand of Islam represented by extremist groups like Isis is "Islam in its purest form"?

Sabine Grant, my proof is the fucking koran itself and a biography of their pedophilic prophet. Read it for yourself. Remember that muslims think this was the perfect man and an example for all muslims to follow.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Blaming the victims now, are we?

It seems to me there are lots of people to blame besides the Palestinians. Hitler, for example. But you'd rather blame the Palestinians, because you hate them. Worse than Hitler apparently.

I think you are sadly mistaken if you think the Palestinians are the victims.

The Palestinians most certainly are victims in this.

The problem is the left falls for the deception and blames Israel rather than Hamas and the Arab nations that want the fight to continue.

 

[another1]

America should totally drop massive amounts of weapons off to anyone with fingers out there because that will solve everything. The stuff happens for 4,000 years or so and it gets boring. Don't blow up my Starbucks and I'm cool with whatever. I have a tiny piece of wool in my eye. Don't you hate that chit?

 

[untermensche]

I think you are sadly mistaken if you think the Palestinians are the victims.

The Palestinians most certainly are victims in this.

The problem is the left falls for the deception and blames Israel rather than Hamas and the Arab nations that want the fight to continue.

Israel allowed Hamas to grow.

Hamas is a convenient excuse for Israel.

A boogeyman to point to as it steals more and more land.

Give the Palestinians their freedom stop attacking them and stealing from them and allow a normal economy to grow and Hamas loses all support.

 

[angelo]

I think you are sadly mistaken if you think the Palestinians are the victims.

The Palestinians most certainly are victims in this.

The problem is the left falls for the deception and blames Israel rather than Hamas and the Arab nations that want the fight to continue.

I know that and you know that, but it appears we're the only ones that know it. Makes me wonder if any here read anything else except the garbage put out by the left.

- - - Updated - - -

The Palestinians most certainly are victims in this.

The problem is the left falls for the deception and blames Israel rather than Hamas and the Arab nations that want the fight to continue.

Israel allowed Hamas to grow.

Hamas is a convenient excuse for Israel.

A boogeyman to point to as it steals more and more land.

Give the Palestinians their freedom stop attacking them and stealing from them and allow a normal economy to grow and Hamas loses all support.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!

 

[Arctish]

The Palestinians most certainly are victims in this.

The problem is the left falls for the deception and blames Israel rather than Hamas and the Arab nations that want the fight to continue.

I know that and you know that, but it appears we're the only ones that know it. Makes me wonder if any here read anything else except the garbage put out by the left.

- - - Updated - - -

The Palestinians most certainly are victims in this.

The problem is the left falls for the deception and blames Israel rather than Hamas and the Arab nations that want the fight to continue.

Israel allowed Hamas to grow.

Hamas is a convenient excuse for Israel.

A boogeyman to point to as it steals more and more land.

Give the Palestinians their freedom stop attacking them and stealing from them and allow a normal economy to grow and Hamas loses all support.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink!

It's ironic you'd say that. I have the feeling you didn't bother to read any of the articles or information I linked to in this thread.

 

[arkirk]

You have a CIA factbook? Isn't that classified? Why was the U.S. and Canada not compared on the listing of Nationmaster? Did you note how well the communist countries did? And Cuba right on the top. There is no doubt that Muslim countries have a late start on literacy. Many also have a late start on being a Muslim country. As usual, your information seems to come from questionable sources. Just saying a lot of your bogeyman countries scored very high on the literacy scale.

Pay a little attention to the world.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/

A very good source for stats on the countries of the world, my main objection is the formatting isn't good for comparisons. It took 30 seconds to get the data from Nationmaster to Excel, 30 minutes to fill in the holes from the CIA data.

And you're not addressing why there is such a strong link.

The link is between being a historically colonized country and poverty. They happen to be mostly in Africa. There is a geographical link here which is far more significant than Islam. Many of those countries also have people who worship the natural gods of indigenous people. Africa is a whole continent which has been ransacked and plundered by the white man. Usually people living under colonial conditions are kept illiterate and these countries when they finally got "independence" had no literate leadership...hence no impetus to deal with illiteracy.

When Castro took over Cuba, whether you like it or not, he and his lieutenants were all highly literate and regarded literacy as fundamental to being civilized. Hence Cuba, evil dictator and all is right at the top of the literacy chart. A lot has to do with Muslim countries being the sources of mined products...raw resources. The colonizers saw no potential in the natives for manufacturing or other more sophisticated forms of commerce. They just took the resources and used as few and as cheaply as possible the natives to do the grunt work. So when Islam takes hold, the people are already deprived. That might be why they accept Islam in the first place...looking for a messianic cure to their exploitation. My point is there are some Islamic nations with high literacy, so you really can't point to Islam as the reason these Muslim countries have high illiteracy rates. I agree it is criminal what happened there, and also that Islam is not much help.

To rapidly come to a state of high literacy from one of illiteracy, in a hurry takes the kind of concentrated efforts that occurred in Cuba. I am sure however that once these peoples recover from the gross injustices they have incurred from colonization their literacy will only increase. Even if a people are illiterate, that still does not make them evil. It just means they have had a miserable encounter with colonial rulers and have not yet developed sufficiently to consider literacy important enough to pursue. Times are changing, but the transformative changes necessary in those central African countries may take many years. It does not help if we keep screwing with them, stealing their resources, and then calling them terrorists.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The Palestinians most certainly are victims in this.

The problem is the left falls for the deception and blames Israel rather than Hamas and the Arab nations that want the fight to continue.

Israel allowed Hamas to grow.

Hamas is a convenient excuse for Israel.

A boogeyman to point to as it steals more and more land.

Give the Palestinians their freedom stop attacking them and stealing from them and allow a normal economy to grow and Hamas loses all support.

Hamas is simply one head of the Islamist hydra. And giving the Palestinians their freedom would just make things worse. It's not about freedom, it's about destroying Israel.

- - - Updated - - -

The Palestinians most certainly are victims in this.

The problem is the left falls for the deception and blames Israel rather than Hamas and the Arab nations that want the fight to continue.

I know that and you know that, but it appears we're the only ones that know it. Makes me wonder if any here read anything else except the garbage put out by the left.

You just said they aren't victims.

- - - Updated - - -

To rapidly come to a state of high literacy from one of illiteracy, in a hurry takes the kind of concentrated efforts that occurred in Cuba. I am sure however that once these peoples recover from the gross injustices they have incurred from colonization their literacy will only increase. Even if a people are illiterate, that still does not make them evil. It just means they have had a miserable encounter with colonial rulers and have not yet developed sufficiently to consider literacy important enough to pursue. Times are changing, but the transformative changes necessary in those central African countries may take many years. It does not help if we keep screwing with them, stealing their resources, and then calling them terrorists.

Assuming doesn't make it happen.

Islamists do not like literacy. The only book worth reading is the Koran and it's better if the Imams tell you what it says rather than reading it yourself. Women have no need of literacy at all. (And note that in the Muslim countries you find much more male/female difference than in non-Muslim countries.)

 

[untermensche]

Hamas is simply one head of the Islamist hydra. And giving the Palestinians their freedom would just make things worse. It's not about freedom, it's about destroying Israel.

Blah, blah, blah.

Yes I know, they can't handle freedom, that's why Israel has denied it to them for so long.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Hamas is simply one head of the Islamist hydra. And giving the Palestinians their freedom would just make things worse. It's not about freedom, it's about destroying Israel.

Blah, blah, blah.

Yes I know, they can't handle freedom, that's why Israel has denied it to them for so long.

The problem is they will use that freedom to increase the violence level, not to make peace. Israel would accept a peaceful Palestinian state--but they perfectly well know that's about as likely as finding bigfoot wandering around.

 

[untermensche]

Blah, blah, blah.

Yes I know, they can't handle freedom, that's why Israel has denied it to them for so long.

The problem is they will use that freedom to increase the violence level, not to make peace. Israel would accept a peaceful Palestinian state--but they perfectly well know that's about as likely as finding bigfoot wandering around.

So those poor Palestinians who are nothing but victims of Hamas cannot possibly make peace?

They are defective. Subhuman.

Why do we even let them live? If we allow them to live we increase our chance of being annihilated by them. Since they can't possibly ever make peace.

I mean, we will find Bigfoot first. Isn't that objective evidence enough?

 

[Arctish]

Hamas is simply one head of the Islamist hydra. And giving the Palestinians their freedom would just make things worse. It's not about freedom, it's about destroying Israel.

Blah, blah, blah.

Yes I know, they can't handle freedom, that's why Israel has denied it to them for so long.

The problem is they will use that freedom to increase the violence level, not to make peace. Israel would accept a peaceful Palestinian state--but they perfectly well know that's about as likely as finding bigfoot wandering around.

This is the stuff tyranny and oppression are made of: declaring a people undeserving of freedom because they might use it in a way you don't approve.

Thank you for once again making it painfully clear that your brand of Zionism built upon racism, religious bigotry, and denying the human rights of non-Jews in Palestine.

 

[Togo]

Blah, blah, blah.

Yes I know, they can't handle freedom, that's why Israel has denied it to them for so long.

The problem is they will use that freedom to increase the violence level, not to make peace. Israel would accept a peaceful Palestinian state--but they perfectly well know that's about as likely as finding bigfoot wandering around.

Ok, so people only get freedom if you approve of their religion, culture, race, or similar characteristics. Now we know where you stand.

 

[fromderinside]

The problem is they will use that freedom to increase the violence level, not to make peace. Israel would accept a peaceful Palestinian state--but they perfectly well know that's about as likely as finding bigfoot wandering around.

Ok, so people only get freedom if you approve of their religion, culture, race, or similar characteristics. Now we know where you stand.

Naw that's not it Togo. Loren Pechtel clearly believes Israelis believe humans in groups can be peaceful if they say they are going to do so. Yano just like the Israelis are.

 

[arkirk]

Blah, blah, blah.

Yes I know, they can't handle freedom, that's why Israel has denied it to them for so long.

The problem is they will use that freedom to increase the violence level, not to make peace. Israel would accept a peaceful Palestinian state--but they perfectly well know that's about as likely as finding bigfoot wandering around.

You should then want both of these asshole cultures Judaism and Islam to come together and make peace so we can make a bigger war on BOTH OF THEM. I guess only a Nazi would want peace between these peoples. Your logic is flawed. You keep predicting things you cannot know. A fairer assessment of the situation is that it is an accident of history that weapons manufacturers really enjoy.

Do you understand what Zionism is? It is exactly the same kind of implacable ideology as you accuse Hamas of being. Whether or not you realize it, you are acting as an agent of Zionism. You claim to be a whatever but your constant dehumanizing of one side in this conflict aligns you squarely with the Zionists. Do you own to that?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Why do we in the west put so much focus on this conflict? Why don't we just pull all aid to both sides and just let them deal with each other. Why make this our problem?

 

[arkirk]

Why do we in the west put so much focus on this conflict? Why don't we just pull all aid to both sides and just let them deal with each other. Why make this our problem?

In a way you have a point until you look at it from a humanistic point of view. The OP was not about what we should do, but what Israel should do. As long as the U.S. in part underwrites the Israelis, only Israel can do anything to rectify the situation. For its own good, it should be doing something to improve its prospects for long term peace. Instead, it has just repeatedly attacked what amounts to an open air prison with heavy weapons. It is our problem because Israel is supposed to be a client state of the U.S. and currently is in the hands of a rabid Zionist regime.

I have felt for a long time our government is betraying us by supporting one side in this conflict. Hyperbolic characterization of a whole people and culture indeed has done a lot of damage to both sides in the conflict. Palestinians lose their homes, their families, and about anything that makes life worth living. Israelis lose in greater degree by the day any chance of being an accepted member in the family of nations in the region. Israel needs to grossly moderate its actions and its rhetoric. Weapons in flow to Israel has been astounding. Our government needs to stop coddling the weapons makers and others interested in escalated conflict, not just in Israel, but in the entire region.

What Israel needs to do is to abandon Zionism and quit expanding. Mr. Netanyahu will not tear down any walls. He has to go.