What to do for the unhoused?

[Rhea]

People who live on the streets do so for a variety of reasons. So I’d like to hear a variety of solutions.

What to do for the poverty-induced unhoused?
What to do for the mental health-induced unhoused?
What to do for the free-spirit unhoused?
What to do for the runaway teen unhoused?
Other causes of homelessness?

 

[Hermit]

You forgot to mention the drug-addicted unhoused, @Rhea. Mustn't forget the drug-addicted unhoused. They are the most numerous among the homeless. In 2017 the National Coalition for the Homeless has found that 38% of homeless people are alcohol dependent.

Providing housing financed with taxpayers' money is the obvious answer, but that is no more than a band-aid type solution. A better way would be to develop social policies that prevent people from finishing up on the streets with nowhere to go, but in a nation that can't bring itself to institute a single-payer health system such undertakings would be pipedreams.

Homelessness in Australia runs at more than twice the US's rate. The main reason for it is racism. On Census night in 2016, 20% identified as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians. I am sure this is a radical underestimation.

 

[bilby]

Mustn't forget the drug-addicted unhoused. They are the most numerous among the homeless. In 2017 the National Coalition for the Homeless has found that 38% of homeless people are alcohol dependent.

Is that cause or effect? Or a combination of the two?

Addiction is a common response to having a shit life and no clear way to improve it other than by obliterating the experience with whatever drugs are readily available (and in our society, that starts with alcohol, which is by far the easiest drug to obtain).

 

[Metaphor]

Homelessness in Australia runs at more than twice the US's rate. The main reason for it is racism. On Census night in 2016, 20% identified as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Australians. I am sure this is a radical underestimation.

What an extraordinary claim, and self-contradictory. How could 'racism' be the main reason for Australia's homelessness rate being twice that of the US? Is there no racism in the US? How could a population that makes up 20% of homeless nevertheless be the main reason for homelessness?

80% of homeless rough sleepers are men. Was the 'main reason' sexism against men?

 

[Hermit]

Mustn't forget the drug-addicted unhoused. They are the most numerous among the homeless. In 2017 the National Coalition for the Homeless has found that 38% of homeless people are alcohol dependent.

Is that cause or effect? Or a combination of the two?

Addiction is a common response to having a shit life and no clear way to improve it other than by obliterating the experience with whatever drugs are readily available (and in our society, that starts with alcohol, which is by far the easiest drug to obtain).

A bit of each, most likely. I wouldn't hazard a guess at the ratio, though, and have not found any studies quantifying it.

 

[Hermit]

80% of homeless rough sleepers are men. Was the 'main reason' sexism against men?

Nah. That percentage would be due to toxic masculinity. Men are less likely to ask for help. Having to ask for help is unmanly. Almost as unmanly as consulting a map, asking for directions or reading assembly instructions.

You also got the percentage wrong. On Census night in 2016, more than 116,000 people were estimated to be homeless in Australia—58% were male

 

[Metaphor]

80% of homeless rough sleepers are men. Was the 'main reason' sexism against men?

Nah. That percentage would be due to toxic masculinity. Men are less likely to ask for help. Having to ask for help is unmanly. Almost as unmanly as consulting a map, asking for directions or reading assembly instructions.

You also got the percentage wrong. On Census night in 2016, more than 116,000 people were estimated to be homeless in Australia—58% were male

My percentage was off, but you made a category error. It is evident you don't know much about homelessness, of which rough sleeping is a subtype, and why I specified 'rough sleeping' when I wrote my post.

There were 8,205 rough sleepers on Census night in 2016; 5,443 (66%) men and 2,762 (34%) women.

But the men were toxic and don't count so in reality 100% of rough sleepers are women.

 

[Hermit]

80% of homeless rough sleepers are men. Was the 'main reason' sexism against men?

Nah. That percentage would be due to toxic masculinity. Men are less likely to ask for help. Having to ask for help is unmanly. Almost as unmanly as consulting a map, asking for directions or reading assembly instructions.

You also got the percentage wrong. On Census night in 2016, more than 116,000 people were estimated to be homeless in Australia—58% were male

My percentage was off, but you made a category error.

Category, schmattegory. Still nothing to do with sexism.

But the men were toxic and don't count

What an extraordinary claim. Care to substantiate it?

 

[Metaphor]

80% of homeless rough sleepers are men. Was the 'main reason' sexism against men?

Nah. That percentage would be due to toxic masculinity. Men are less likely to ask for help. Having to ask for help is unmanly. Almost as unmanly as consulting a map, asking for directions or reading assembly instructions.

You also got the percentage wrong. On Census night in 2016, more than 116,000 people were estimated to be homeless in Australia—58% were male

My percentage was off, but you made a category error.

Category, schmattegory. Still nothing to do with sexism.

How do you figure Australia's homeless rate is 'twice' the US, and how do you figure it's because of 'racism'?

But the men were toxic and don't count

What an extraordinary claim. Care to substantiate it?

It was not a claim. It was a satirical statement.

 

[prideandfall]

People who live on the streets do so for a variety of reasons. So I’d like to hear a variety of solutions.

What to do for the poverty-induced unhoused?
What to do for the mental health-induced unhoused?
What to do for the free-spirit unhoused?
What to do for the runaway teen unhoused?
Other causes of homelessness?

the problem in the US is that there is no way to address the issue while continuing to function with the current political and cultural paradigm.

the combination of "blame the victim" mentality about the homeless, and the archaic prudishness of the US attitude about drugs, about social sustainability, about an individual's obligation to be self sufficient in an environment where that is neither physically required nor (often) possible, and the systemic gross mismanagement of available resources are all factors in the homeless problem.

as easy as it is to say "just build them all homes", and for as much as i support that idea, it will treat the symptom but not the cause.
if you built enough housing across the US to give a home to every homeless, that would only solve the problem for until there was another huge population of homeless.
the current homeless population doesn't breed more homeless people, it's not like the homeless are replicated from others - 100% of all homeless people are formerly homed. you could say that something went wildly wrong in their lives which lead them to become homeless, but IMO the fact that homelessness is even an option is the real wrong... there shouldn't *be* a path that leads to being homeless in the US, that shouldn't be a physical possibility.

the sad truth is that homelessness in the US is a systemic cultural problem that will never be solved with the way society works right now, so the most that can ever be done is expending time and effort to try to help ease their suffering - basically just a humanitarian approach so that people can pat themselves on the back over how good they are to others.

we need to radically change our cultural attitudes towards several things, as well as institute policies and safety nets into the fabric of our society, in order to truly address the issue of homelessness in any realistic way.

or, alternately... hobodome.
we make a big concrete pit in several major cities, round up all the hobos and bulldoze them into it.
we fill it with broken bottles and metal pipes and bags of meth until one person is left and declared King of the Hobos, and then shoot that person in the head on national television.

i guess either thing would pretty much take care of the problem.

 

[steve_bank]

There is finally a homeless camp cleanup in Seattle. In the news last night about 50% of homeless offered housng and shelter never show up.

Peole have adapted to living on the street. Shelter and housng requires no alchohol and drugs.

Forcing people off te streets will undoubedly lead to lawsuts by the the likes of the SCLU.

Here in Washington a 19th century law that prevents people being forced off their homes referring to settlers was invoked to justfy eole park cars and RVs anywhere and calling it home.

There are plenty of jobs in Seattle right now. I see healthy young people panhandling on the streets every day.

A social worker I knew a few yeras ack said se strted out working with the homeless. She burnt out because she put in the work to get peole set up for job traiing and work and they do not show up.

Make it easy to be homeless and more people will become homeless.

A local reporter went down the west coast looking at homeless camps. He said approximately 1/3 were homeeless due to money and lack of affordable housing, 1/3 mental and drug problems, and 1/3 ciriminals using the camps as a d front.

In the area there are tiny home camps. Basically standalone small studio apartments. Camps can end up being trashed with junk and garbage. A woman in charge of one was interviewed and appeared to have no clue what she was doing. Part of the problem is getting people qualified to manage people.



In the 50s 60s we lived in public housing in Stamford Ct. Looking back it was a decent palce to live. Lower blue collar working people. Affordable housing will help the working poor who can't afford housing in a place like Seattle, it will not solve the problem.

In the news a 9 year old girl got a 1!1 million soccer contract. It is not just big corporations and the wealthy few. From our roof I can see the football and baseball stadiums built partly by taxpayer funds. Across the street from my building tents are popng up on a gassy spot next to the highway.

Without a retucturng of te economic system the problem will just get worse. Periodically there are new homeless 'task forces' or some new initiative. All doomed to failure. In the Seattle area over the last 20 years a lot of money has been spent on the homelss with no accounting and no results. It all wemt somewhere.

From waht I see with our city council and King county government is there are no people who know how to solve sucha problem in a coordinated manner. There are ridiculous jurisdictional problems and a lot of political sound bites.

No one is willing to make hard decisions.

 

[Hermit]

How do you figure Australia's homeless rate is 'twice' the US

I said homelessness in Australia runs at more than twice the US's rate. That is somewhat inaccurate. The ratio is actually 2.8 to 1. You can look it up here.

and how do you figure it's because of 'racism'?

Both the US and Australia are racist, but Australia is more racist than the US. African-Americans are more integrated in their society than Aborigines are in ours. Here is one pointer: The unemployment rate of black Americans is twice the rate of non-blacks. The unemployment rate of Aborigines is almost four times the rate of non-indigenous Australians.

But the men were toxic and don't count

What an extraordinary claim. Care to substantiate it?

It was not a claim. It was a satirical statement.

Orly?

I was making fun of what you regard as satire.

 

[Metaphor]

Both the US and Australia are racist, but Australia is more racist than the US. African-Americans are more integrated in their society than Aborigines are in ours. Here is one pointer: The unemployment rate of black Americans is twice the rate of non-blacks. The unemployment rate of Aborigines is almost four times the rate of non-indigenous Australians.

That doesn't make Australia "more racist". For one thing, black Americans are more likely to live in urban areas than indigenous Australians, many of whom live in remote or very remote regions.

Orly?

I was making fun of what you regard as satire.

Some people claim they cannot detect satire and treat obvious satire as if it were a genuine claim. I am glad you were capable of recognising it.

 

[Trausti]

From waht I see with our city council and King county government is there are no people who know how to solve sucha problem in a coordinated manner.

Why would they want to resolve the problem? They created the problem, and the problem is the ready excuse for more taxes and more government programs. There's no incentive to end it. Too much $$$ there.

 

[Metaphor]

Both the US and Australia are racist, but Australia is more racist than the US. African-Americans are more integrated in their society than Aborigines are in ours. Here is one pointer: The unemployment rate of black Americans is twice the rate of non-blacks. The unemployment rate of Aborigines is almost four times the rate of non-indigenous Australians.

That doesn't make Australia "more racist". For one thing, black Americans are more likely to live in urban areas than indigenous Australians, many of whom live in remote or very remote regions.

Orly?

I was making fun of what you regard as satire.

Some people claim they cannot detect satire and treat obvious satire as if it were a genuine claim. I am glad you were capable of recognising it.

EDIT: Also, there could be scope differences between America's homelessness rate and Australia's. Australia counts people in severely crowded dwellings as homeless. I'm not sure the American estimate does.

 

[steve_bank]

From waht I see with our city council and King county government is there are no people who know how to solve sucha problem in a coordinated manner.

Why would they want to resolve the problem? They created the problem, and the problem is the ready excuse for more taxes and more government programs. There's no incentive to end it. Too much $$$ there.

It is a synptom of the system, the issue is exacerbated by local politics.

 

[bleubird]

My town has started housing first. It is not the solution,but it is a first step. It saves cities money up front by reducing police and hospital cost. Pride is right, the problem is your stupid system.

 

[steve_bank]

My town has started housing first. It is not the solution,but it is a first step. It saves cities money up front by reducing police and hospital cost. Pride is right, the problem is your stupid system.

The Alaskan oil industry is that 'stupid system'....

 

[Loren Pechtel]

One thing that I think would help:

Provide facilities to live in, built tough but crude. Think beefed-up self-storage place plus prison type toilets. Publish the specs. If 90% of the existing facilities in a city have an occupant the city is obligated to buy more. If there are at least three independent offerings (private companies building on spec) then the city is obligated to buy the cheapest offering within 10 days. If there are less than three offerings the city buys the cheapest but the price is fixed at the previous price adjusted to constant dollars. (In other words, the city can't be held hostage to a monopoly.) Note that "cheapest" can vary based on the situation--the city needs to buy enough to get the utilization down, but they are going to be sold in chunks, not individually.

 

[steve_bank]

One thing that I think would help:

Provide facilities to live in, built tough but crude. Think beefed-up self-storage place plus prison type toilets. Publish the specs. If 90% of the existing facilities in a city have an occupant the city is obligated to buy more. If there are at least three independent offerings (private companies building on spec) then the city is obligated to buy the cheapest offering within 10 days. If there are less than three offerings the city buys the cheapest but the price is fixed at the previous price adjusted to constant dollars. (In other words, the city can't be held hostage to a monopoly.) Note that "cheapest" can vary based on the situation--the city needs to buy enough to get the utilization down, but they are going to be sold in chunks, not individually.

The problem is a significant number of the homeless here in Seattle simply do not want housing that has any restrictions. They are not starving and they can go to an ER for medical help along with clinics.

I ever give money to homeless people panhandling because I know there are resources for them.

They have no incentive to get into any kind of structured life.

Before police cleared out the 3rd and Pike area I could pick out regulars who hung out during the day. It was at my buss stop.

Look at the link on Seattle tiny houses. There are people who would rather sleep on the street or in a homeless camp that stay at a prison like style dormitory. There are places where they can sleep at night on cots with bathrooms.

Hotels are bing purchased for housing, but the problem remainns that there is no way to enforce rules and make people stay.

If you look at the homeless as just regular people who need a place to stay you will not get the nature of the prblem.