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What Would Happen if Trump Refused to Leave Office?

Elixir

Elixir

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I know we have talked about this in other threads, but I thought it was time for a focused re-visit given the overt signs emerging lately...
Some here are very dismissive of the chances that Trump would ever do such a thing as to refuse to leave office

HERE is a pretty good take IMO.

It's a chilling thought that in America "the key to the peaceful transfer of power is the conduct of the outgoing leader", but I'm afraid that is indeed the case. And with Trump we have a guy with no character and nothing to lose by attempting insurrection - he knows he's in for disgrace and probable jail time if he becomes a private citizen. So why not put everyone else's lives on the line and at worst, go out in a blaze of glory?

I am reassured by only one thing: In three years, Trump has never even had the guts to fire anyone face to face. He will try to get others to walk over the line for him, but he is not a leader, he is just a boss. Normally that doesn't mean putting his own ass on the line by leading the way in a forcible takeover. So he might come down with a last minute case of bone spurs. Other than that, I think overthrowing the government is exactly what he would like to do. Or rather, what he'd like someone else to do for him. Apparently a lot of respected ex-military personnel think so too; there's a lot of preventative messaging coming from that quarter.
 
It depends on how the election plays out. If it’s not close and there’s no hope of reversing he’ll claim it was all fraud but he'll go in the end. He may not show up to the inauguration though.

If it is close in a lot of swing states, that’s where the trouble will really begin. Trump will ignite his base and file numerous lawsuits and will try to intimidate those trying to do either recounts or other things. He'll try to get the Supreme Court to make a ruling that helps him and forces Biden to concede. Just like W did vs. Gore.

But there are several defenses that could be mounted to stop this. One, Democrats need to come out in force to prevent intimidation. Two, the courts may not try to intervene again, as it gave them a black eye in 2000. Dems need to set the stage ahead of time that they’re not going to put up with these shenanigans by Trump. He’ll groan and moan, but he’ll go if he has to. The larger question is what will his followers do?
 
When he loses he'll try to occupy the shelter. Failing that he'll blame the governors, then the military, then congress, then the press, finally everybody as he is perp walked to a chopper taking him somewhere where there is a pitch and putt. Hopefully there's a place for him at Shutter Island.

He's just a whiney little bitch. No boogie man he.
 
fromderinside said:
When he loses he'll try to occupy the shelter. Failing that he'll blame the governors, then the military, then congress, then the press, finally everybody as he is perp walked to a chopper taking him somewhere where there is a pitch and putt. Hopefully there's a place for him at Shutter Island.

He's just a whiney little bitch. No boogie man he.
Click to expand...

I side with others here in expressing my sorry over his followers. He made it OK to be a Nazi again. He legitimized Klansmen as "very fine people". You can see it in the shifted tone within the current stage of political unrest and right wing media spin: the VOP is loudly pointing fingers at people who are critical of fascism, yet it's people who are slavering for a fascist ethnostate who are continuing to escalate things to violence. This is new, and the fact that these Nazi and Klan terrorists are making these moves so confidently is not a good sign of things to come.
 
Does anyone think all these roving bands of white nationalists are going to stop doing what they're doing just because Biden has been elected?
 
No. But they have been here all the time, only now are having their voices amplified a tad by Turmp-the-Nazi. Now they can't stay in the background. that's a good thing. Puss needs to be removed and visible puss is easier to remove than invisible puss.

We need to remember that in the thirties Nazis were really a big thing. They actually kept the US from openly supporting GB at the beginning of WWII. Communist fear by such as Nixon and McCarthy were essentially Nazi fronts repurposed to fear monger communism. It was only the death of Kennedy that got us to bend a bit toward racial sanity in the mid sixties. We haven't moved very much farther since.

This latest tribalism putsch should bring our purposes to clear focus. We've been on a universalism glide path by inertia over the past thirty years. Now is the time to reserrect the reasons for seeing the world as a place of brothers rather than a bunch of tribes. If Covar-19 doesn't make the point nothing will.
 
I'd like to think that those couple of Marines who stand behind him when he makes a speech from the White House would say "excuse me, sir, but all due respect, you need to come with us."
 
Just change the white house locks while he's out golfing. Problem solved.
 
Elixir said:
I know we have talked about this in other threads, but I thought it was time for a focused re-visit given the overt signs emerging lately...
Some here are very dismissive of the chances that Trump would ever do such a thing as to refuse to leave office

HERE is a pretty good take IMO.

It's a chilling thought that in America "the key to the peaceful transfer of power is the conduct of the outgoing leader", but I'm afraid that is indeed the case. And with Trump we have a guy with no character and nothing to lose by attempting insurrection - he knows he's in for disgrace and probable jail time if he becomes a private citizen. So why not put everyone else's lives on the line and at worst, go out in a blaze of glory?

I am reassured by only one thing: In three years, Trump has never even had the guts to fire anyone face to face. He will try to get others to walk over the line for him, but he is not a leader, he is just a boss. Normally that doesn't mean putting his own ass on the line by leading the way in a forcible takeover. So he might come down with a last minute case of bone spurs. Other than that, I think overthrowing the government is exactly what he would like to do. Or rather, what he'd like someone else to do for him. Apparently a lot of respected ex-military personnel think so too; there's a lot of preventative messaging coming from that quarter.
Click to expand...

Power derives from people obeying the commands. Who would obey his commands after being beaten and refusing to leave office?

1. Military? Doubtful. He already has a poor reputation among many in the military leadership, and I doubt he would get much support at all.

2. His fanatics? Ok, but what can they do? Riot? Terrorist attacks? That would push public support sharply against this radical fringe.

What would happen is that he'd be thrown out of the White House by force, and maybe have a few angry fanatic supporters riot and plot some attacks, in the worst case scenario.
 
Remember how Trump fired Comey, by tweet, when he was out of town? And got upset that they let the guy travel home on a govt. jet?

Trump goes to Mar A Lago, or wherever, Air Force 1 flies off without him. Or the Beast drives off. Marine 1 flies off....
 
Axulus said:
Who would obey his commands after being beaten and refusing to leave office?
1. Military? Doubtful. He already has a poor reputation among many in the military leadership, and I doubt he would get much support at all.
Click to expand...

The recent spate of senior military officers speaking out almost in unison against Trump's past use and treatment of the military and warning against his possible future use of the military, tells me that they are concerned about the same thing that concerns me. They are presumably better able to assess that possibility than you or I.

I do think it's doubtful that Trump would ever do anything requiring courage.
But I'm pretty sure he would try anything that only requires stupidity, as long as he thinks he can blame someone else if it goes awry. And that includes fomenting civil war.
 
Here's how I'd like to see him leave the White House.

He gets put aboard a military helicopter and gets flown to Andrews Air Force Base. He thinks "Oh isn't this wonderful? I get to visit a military base."

He then gets put aboard a military transport, and he grumbles about its lack of luxury.

The transport lands in Ramstein Air Force Base in Germany. He thinks "Great. Another military base."

He then gets put aboard a long-distance military helicopter, and it travels across the German and Dutch countryside, arriving on the roof of a building in The Hague, Holland.

The chopper crew drops him off there, and he discovers that he will be tried for crimes against humanity.
 
I'd rather the Army simply kills him in the Oval Office, planting a gun on him and claiming that they had no choice, because Trump pulled a gun on them, thinking he was on 5th Avenue.
 
Elixir said:
I know we have talked about this in other threads, but I thought it was time for a focused re-visit given the overt signs emerging lately...
Some here are very dismissive of the chances that Trump would ever do such a thing as to refuse to leave office

HERE is a pretty good take IMO.

It's a chilling thought that in America "the key to the peaceful transfer of power is the conduct of the outgoing leader", but I'm afraid that is indeed the case. And with Trump we have a guy with no character and nothing to lose by attempting insurrection - he knows he's in for disgrace and probable jail time if he becomes a private citizen. So why not put everyone else's lives on the line and at worst, go out in a blaze of glory?

I am reassured by only one thing: In three years, Trump has never even had the guts to fire anyone face to face. He will try to get others to walk over the line for him, but he is not a leader, he is just a boss. Normally that doesn't mean putting his own ass on the line by leading the way in a forcible takeover. So he might come down with a last minute case of bone spurs. Other than that, I think overthrowing the government is exactly what he would like to do. Or rather, what he'd like someone else to do for him. Apparently a lot of respected ex-military personnel think so too; there's a lot of preventative messaging coming from that quarter.
Click to expand...

It means you're having a feargasm. Nothing more.
 
Trump will never allow himself to be labeled as LOSER. That's death to him. Whiny little bitch, but not loser. So, if he goes, my prediction is that he skips the inauguration -- c'mon, if he's such a pussy that he can't wear a face mask, can you see him sharing a limo with Joe? He'll depart the White House at noon, probably leaving a double-flusher in the Oval Office toilet. And he spends the rest of his days moaning and shrieking that the election was stolen.
 
Jason Harvestdancer said:
It means you're having a feargasm. Nothing more.
Click to expand...

What is "it" Jason?
A chance to re-use your favorite demeaning insult?
Did a bad case of ignoritis come down on you, or do you have some libbertardian advice on the OP subject?

Me and the generals... feargasm. Right. Jason so brave!
 
I think he will leave. However, out of spite and knowing his followers are deep into conspiracy theories, I expect him to say all kinds of shit about Pearl Harbor, the JFK assassination, ect. Just to stir up more distrust and anger than there already is. He hinted he would and kinda already did when he told Ted Cruz his dad looked like one of Lee Harvey Oswalds associates.
 
Elixir said:
I know we have talked about this in other threads, but I thought it was time for a focused re-visit given the overt signs emerging lately...
Some here are very dismissive of the chances that Trump would ever do such a thing as to refuse to leave office

HERE is a pretty good take IMO.
Click to expand...

There's one paragraph in which McQuade explains that Trump loses all power to illegally remain in office from the moment his term ends:

If Trump were inclined to overstay his term, the levers of power work in favor of removal. Because the president immediately and automatically loses his constitutional authority upon expiration of his term or after removal through impeachment, he would lack the power to direct the U.S. Secret Service or other federal agents to protect him. He would likewise lose his power, as the commander in chief of the armed forces, to order a military response to defend him. In fact, the newly minted president would possess those presidential powers. If necessary, the successor could direct federal agents to forcibly remove Trump from the White House. Now a private citizen, Trump would no longer be immune from criminal prosecution, and could be arrested and charged with trespassing in the White House. While even former presidents enjoy Secret Service protection, agents presumably would not follow an illegal order to protect one from removal from office.
Click to expand...

Basically, if Biden wins and Trump tries to keep his position with force, nobody is required to obey him. Biden can order the Secret Service to drag Cheetolini out in cuffs.
 
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