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What's with the dopey Russian coaches?

Copernicus

Copernicus

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I'm not a big fan of sports or the Olympics, but I recognize the importance that people around the world place on Olympic medals. The games can be seen as helpful in establishing a global human community, but I personally find it difficult to imagine why it matters that one country or another gets a lot of medals. It was a big deal for Hitler, because of Nazi ideology about German racial superiority. And that's why it bothered him so much that an African American won a foot race. And politics is why the US did not send its dignitaries to this year's Olympics in China. So it seems to be a national pride thing that can sometimes go toxic.

The Olympics have rules against doping for obvious reasons. All drugs have side effects, and some performance-enhancing drugs can have serious consequences for the long term health of those who take them. Still, coaches around the world are going to be tempted to give their young charges an advantage to bring honor and fame to themselves their country's athletes. Russia is a special case, because it has been found in the past to have a state-sponsored program to cheat with performance-enhancing drugs. For that reason, they have been sanctioned in the past and are even now not allowed to use the name of their country in the Winter Olympics in China. After much negotiation and drama, they were allowed to compete under the banner of the "Russian Olympic Committee" (ROC). So they are back with their amazing athletes, and a super skater 15-year-old Kamila Valieva, the first woman to land a quadruple jump. That won her the gold medal.

And now this:

Teen skater's doping test draws global wrath against Russia​


Barely out of childhood, and they made her take a drug for angina. Could she not have done that jump without the heart-strengthening drug? Are they so nuts that they are incapable of cleaning up their act? Why do that to a young teenage girl? Russia itself is officially backing her, but they aren't saying anything about why she had that drug in her system in the first place. Apparently, she did not have a history of heart disease, but her country still has a history of its own regarding these continual doping scandals. They just can't seem to learn from past mistakes.
 
The whole ROC thing is a disgrace. Wanna play Curling? Fine. Any sport that requires stamina? Feck off! Russia's cheating scandals stand out because their cheating isn't isolated and rather it is almost as big as their athletics programs.

The trouble in this case is that they are doping this teenager but not using the typical stuff, which apparently is being looked for. This really does make a farce of the Olympics, because the whole point is to achieve this the old fashioned way. There have been cheaters caught from all over. But Russia is just tainted at this point and there is no reason to believe a word they say after the institutionalized doping and testing set up they had (have).
 
Copernicus said:
Are they so nuts that they are incapable of cleaning up their act?
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Pootey is fearless. That’s part of his appeal, like Trump (who seems fearless because he’s so oblivious).
The upside of winning by hook or crook outweighs any downside of getting caught. Is that nuts?
 
I'm guessing this skater didn't even know she was being doped whereas some athletes dope intentionally. Russian athletes shouldn't even be allowed to compete because the likelihood that they are doping is very high whether it is being done intentionally or not. Another way to fix the doping situation is zero tolerance. If you are caught you never compete again.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
The whole ROC thing is a disgrace. Wanna play Curling? Fine. Any sport that requires stamina? Feck off! Russia's cheating scandals stand out because their cheating isn't isolated and rather it is almost as big as their athletics programs.

The trouble in this case is that they are doping this teenager but not using the typical stuff, which apparently is being looked for. This really does make a farce of the Olympics, because the whole point is to achieve this the old fashioned way. There have been cheaters caught from all over. But Russia is just tainted at this point and there is no reason to believe a word they say after the institutionalized doping and testing set up they had (have).
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Not using the typical stuff is a long-standing pattern.
 
Loren Pechtel said:
Not using the typical stuff is a long-standing pattern.
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Which is why you need stronger measures against the behavior. Otherwise it isn't sport anymore, only a reward for the most accomplished cheaters.

The latest article I read suggested that the skater might be reprimanded. That's bullshit because it just encourages more of the same behavior. Give her a certificate that states she was the best skater on the ice who tested positively for the use of performance enhancing drugs, but she certainly shouldn't receive a competition medal.
 
These girls are too young and have the unfair advantage with high spin jumps by not being filled out yet.

The coach pushes then too hard with long term consequences at their young age.
 
T.G.G. Moogly said:
The latest article I read suggested that the skater might be reprimanded. That's bullshit because it just encourages more of the same behavior. Give her a certificate that states she was the best skater on the ice who tested positively for the use of performance enhancing drugs, but she certainly shouldn't receive a competition medal.
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I'm not surprised. It's easier to blame a 15-year-old girl than the adults who exploited her. These young teenagers are easily manipulated by their trainers and coaches.
 
Terrible decision allowing a doped athlete to continue to compete. It encourages more of the same behavior and sends the message that being caught doping isn't such a big deal. Tells athletes that do not cheat that they can dope all they want, just make sure you are innocent enough and can plead that it isn't your fault.

Again, terrible decision.
 
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Apparently, Valieva has claimed that her grandfather was prescribed that medicine for his heart condition, but that still does not explain how it got into her system. I believe that it has to be injected rather than taken orally (although I'm not sure of that). Moreover, it is a known banned performance-enhancement drug that athletes have taken in the past. Worse yet, her doctor happens to have been banned temporarily before (from 2007 to 2010) for doping athletes. So why was this doctor even allowed to treat prospective Olympic athletes at all? He should have been banned for life from being allowed to do that. Also, her second sample "B" has not been tested yet. Why? Did she opt out of having it tested? There just seem to be too many coincidences and unanswered questions about this positive drug test.

Valieva argued positive test was mix-up with grandfather's heart drug - IOC

The IOC is allowing Valieva to compete for the gold tomorrow, but they apparently have no official way to make such an exemption to the rules. They went ahead and did so anyway, even though Olympic athletes in the past have been banned for less--e.g. testing positive for pot, even though THC is not a performance-enhancing drug and the athlete in question took it in Oregon, where smoking pot is legal. Unfortunately, she is black and 21 years old, so I suppose she had that going against her.

Sha'Carri Richardson — the US sprinter barred from the Olympics for marijuana use — says the only difference between her and Valieva is their race
 
First of all, investigation has not even really started.
Second of all, doping in figure skating is pretty pointless.
Third of all, You are totally doping yourself, it's called therapeutic exceptions. Norway/Sweden were doing it with great success, US is also totally guilty of that (Simone Biles)

As far as I know substance is similar to meldonium for which a bunch of russians including Sharapova were "busted". The whole thing stunk because that substance was not even proven to improve results and the reason why it was put on the list is because the drug itself was used only in Russia and not in the West.

Plus the test itself was not not done in timely matter and I understand is technically invalid because of that.

I can't exclude third party involvement in all of this. She is a hands down best skater in history of the sport. Can you exclude CIA?
 
On the efficacy of the drug on figure skating and Valieva in particular, heart expert Dr. Benjamin J. Levine, a professor of exercise science at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, said “The chance that trimetazidine would improve her performance, in my opinion, is zero. The heart has plenty of blood. And the heart is so good at using different fuels.
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And apparently her grandfather was taking that drug for his heart problems.
 
barbos said:
On the efficacy of the drug on figure skating and Valieva in particular, heart expert Dr. Benjamin J. Levine, a professor of exercise science at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, said “The chance that trimetazidine would improve her performance, in my opinion, is zero. The heart has plenty of blood. And the heart is so good at using different fuels.
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And apparently her grandfather was taking that drug for his heart problems.
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link

Yes, and Alberto Contador ate contaminated beef with hormones that were in that... and he totally wasn't caught cheating in cycling.
article said:
“Her argument was contamination which happened with a product her grandfather was taking,” Oswald said. He provided no further details and likely wasn't even supposed to say that much. The IOC had been declining specific comment because it is an ongoing case.

Additional reports from Russia say that Valieva's argument centered on trace amounts of the medication somehow getting into her system. Perhaps it was via a shared glass or some residue left on a counter. The grandfather reportedly drives Valieva to training with some regularity.
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Seriously?! Or maybe the trace amounts are what hadn't washed out yet, as they pulled back doping her for the championships and the obvious testing.
 
barbos said:
First of all, investigation has not even really started.
Second of all, doping in figure skating is pretty pointless.
Third of all, You are totally doping yourself, it's called therapeutic exceptions. Norway/Sweden were doing it with great success, US is also totally guilty of that (Simone Biles)

As far as I know substance is similar to meldonium for which a bunch of russians including Sharapova were "busted". The whole thing stunk because that substance was not even proven to improve results and the reason why it was put on the list is because the drug itself was used only in Russia and not in the West.
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Yes, the drug is so useless that her coaches are doping her with it.

barbos said:
I can't exclude third party involvement in all of this. She is a hands down best skater in history of the sport. Can you exclude CIA?
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Most athletic, maybe, but best female skater... she is 15 and there is more to figure skating than a quad. Additionally, the US has survived not winning golds (or medals) in figure skating. Haven't won a single medal since Torino! So enough of the CIA garbage.
 
The Olympics is not about sports, it is about making money. They probably thought it was better to let her compete than not. Image and profit. I can't watch the Olympics anymore, it is a business with a lot of hype on fair competition.

To increase he audience teens doing snowboard tricks are presented and hyped as world class atheletes. TV pays for broadcast rights and makes money on advertising. Teen sports increases the audience.

Doping has always been an issue. I am old enoygh to remember the East German Olympic doping scandal. Women taking male hormones who pretty beefy.

More moden Lance Armstrong and doping in the endurance bicycling sport, like the Tour De France. Turned out they all used it to compete.

The baseball scandal where the arms of players quickly got bigger resulting in more home runs.

It is an open secret the TV pro wresting uses steroids, the only way to get and manikin those huge muscles. Schwarzenegger admitted to using steroids.
 
barbos said:
First of all, investigation has not even really started.
Second of all, doping in figure skating is pretty pointless.
Third of all, You are totally doping yourself, it's called therapeutic exceptions. Norway/Sweden were doing it with great success, US is also totally guilty of that (Simone Biles)

As far as I know substance is similar to meldonium for which a bunch of russians including Sharapova were "busted". The whole thing stunk because that substance was not even proven to improve results and the reason why it was put on the list is because the drug itself was used only in Russia and not in the West.

Plus the test itself was not not done in timely matter and I understand is technically invalid because of that.

I can't exclude third party involvement in all of this. She is a hands down best skater in history of the sport. Can you exclude CIA?
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Trimetazidine has been on the anti-doping list since 2014. The claim that her grandfather was taking the drug for his heart condition is extremely convenient and coincidental. The coach, Eteri Tutberidze, is famous for producing these girls to win gold medals at an age where their bodies are more able to perform difficult moves like quads. She is the most sought-after coach in Russia for figure skating champions, and her prodigies usually only last a couple of years, because their bodies change as they mature to full adulthood. IOW, the coach seems to be running a little figure skating factory that is likely using the doping to keep her string of successes going.

Kamila Valieva's doctor, has an interesting history:

Filipp Shvetsky can be seen rinkside during Russian figure skaters' competitions and practices. The towering, dark-haired physician works at a war veterans' hospital in Moscow in addition to treating members of Russia's figure skating team.

Shvetsky and several Russian rowers were suspended from the sport between 2007 and 2010 for anti-doping violations, said Jim Walden, an attorney for Grigory Rodchenkov, the former head of Russia's anti-doping laboratory who turned whistleblower.

Rowing's international governing body said at the time that the violations were related to prohibited intravenous infusions.

After his suspension was lifted, he joined the national figure skating team. The blame, Shvetsky said in a 2016 interview, was put on him in the hope of reducing the athletes' suspensions.
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See Reuters report: Formidable Russian coach and doctor with doping past in focus over Valieva case

I think that the IOC made a serious mistake in letting Valieva continue to compete. It sends exactly the wrong message both to the Russian Olympic Committee and to those athletes who must compete in future games. If the IOC continues to look the other way, then we can expect other serious contenders to start their own clandestine doping programs.
 
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