What's wrong with PRICE-GOUGING? during a DISASTER or any other time?

[coloradoatheist]

Ah, America! Where else can you find people who claim to be Christians shouting to the rooftops how it is moral to exploit the poor during natural disasters?

Jesus said a number of things about how you should help people without regard to earthly profit. I shouldn't have to tell you what's wrong with it.

It is a side discussion. But not sure there are too many Christians on an atheist board. But I always thought that atheists should be pro-capitalism and Christians should be pro-communism. Religion is about giving up things now for the reward a better future life.

 

[Sarpedon]

Lumpenproletariat is a christian who argues, at great length, that Jesus' life and teachings are well documented. I find it ironic in the extreme that he would then argue in favor of disaster-profiteering and price gouging. I was merely pointing out that if he truly believed what he proports to believe, he would already know what was wrong with it.

 

[dismal]

Ah, America! Where else can you find people who claim to be Christians shouting to the rooftops how it is moral to exploit the poor during natural disasters?

Jesus said a number of things about how you should help people without regard to earthly profit. I shouldn't have to tell you what's wrong with it.

It is a side discussion. But not sure there are too many Christians on an atheist board. But I always thought that atheists should be pro-capitalism and Christians should be pro-communism. Religion is about giving up things now for the reward a better future life.

Nothing Jesus said could be construed as telling people to point guns at other people to take away and forcibly redistribute their stuff. Jesus wants you to help others with your stuff for the good of your own soul, not so others have more stuff.

As an all-powerful guy, if he wanted the poor to have more stuff he could have just whipped up a bunch of stuff and given it to them.

 

[coloradoatheist]

It is a side discussion. But not sure there are too many Christians on an atheist board. But I always thought that atheists should be pro-capitalism and Christians should be pro-communism. Religion is about giving up things now for the reward a better future life.

Nothing Jesus said could be construed as telling people to point guns at other people to take away and forcibly redistribute their stuff. Jesus wants you to help others with your stuff for the good of your own soul, not so others have more stuff.

As an all-powerful guy, if he wanted the poor to have more stuff he could have just whipped up a bunch of stuff and given it to them.

If we are going to go down this path, Jesus believed that the world was going to end within a very short period of time so he really didn't involve himself in the right economic system a country needs to run. But greed was a frowned upon trait is not looked as being a terrible sin in the pro-capitalistic philosophy.

 

[dismal]

Nothing Jesus said could be construed as telling people to point guns at other people to take away and forcibly redistribute their stuff. Jesus wants you to help others with your stuff for the good of your own soul, not so others have more stuff.

As an all-powerful guy, if he wanted the poor to have more stuff he could have just whipped up a bunch of stuff and given it to them.

If we are going to go down this path, Jesus believed that the world was going to end within a very short period of time so he really didn't involve himself in the right economic system a country needs to run. But greed was a frowned upon trait is not looked as being a terrible sin in the pro-capitalistic philosophy.

He was all knowing and all powerful. So a) He knew when the world was going to end; b) He could have repealed scarcity, solving any all economic problems. He just chose not to. He said "the poor you will always have with you". It was a conscious choice. He could have given them all Ferraris and Yachts.

 

[Sarpedon]

...except for that time the apostles required their followers to give up all their belongings, redistributing it among all the followers according to their needs and murdered a couple that refused.

 

[Elixir]

It costs a company a lot of money just to store stuff, especially as big as those two companies.

Yes it does. And it costs even more to transport them more than once, and store them more than once, in more than one location, so the price of plywood in the wake of a hurricane is going to be higher than it is elsewhere. BUT NOT 3-10 times higher!

 

[untermensche]

What's wrong with tarring and feathering price gougers?

What's wrong with diseased humans who take advantage of victims in time of disaster?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Lumpenproletariat is a christian who argues, at great length, that Jesus' life and teachings are well documented. I find it ironic in the extreme that he would then argue in favor of disaster-profiteering and price gouging. I was merely pointing out that if he truly believed what he proports to believe, he would already know what was wrong with it.

But he only purports to believe the healing miracles are well-documented. Not all of his teachings meet Lumpy's threshold of things that must be accepted as sign of divine inspiration. Or could reasonably be accepted...

Most anything that would require him to change his politics, behavior, or weekly schedule seem to likely be later interpolations, probably by people with suspicious agendas.

It's quite within his ethos to intentionally prey upon the desperate and call it 'commerce.' As long as he believes God allowed Jesus to heal sick and wounded and dead, he'll go to Eternal Paradise...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Lowes/Home Depot is a company that stocks provisions deeply, and should have response mechanisms in place that seem to be lacking, opening the door for individual opportunists.

What do you mean, "stocks deeply"? I'm a DIY-prone homeowner, I'm frequently in the hardware store. Never once has Home Depot or Lowes (and why are you calling them one company??) ever found something in back when the shelf was empty. They do have inventory up on the top of shelves where it takes a ladder, but that's it. AFIAK the only things in back are new arrivals and items sufficiently bulky that they're not on the sales floor at all. (Example, appliances. One is set up to look at, the ones you buy are in back.)

That's the way business tends to run these days. I have gotten stuff from in back at the grocery once--a clearance situation due to a massive overstock (they had three shelves for the stuff in question and corporate shipped them enough for three aisles.) That ended up with me spending more than an hour in their stockroom (escorted) and I got a fair look around. There wasn't even 10% as much stuff in back as on the floor. Other than that the only items I've ever gotten from a back room were cases where there was a demonstrator on the floor and either none or limited sizes of stuff that was actually for sale. (Example: Shoes. They'll have a pair you can look at and sometimes some of the common sizes. My 13EEEEs always come from in back, though.)

 

[ksen]

It is a side discussion. But not sure there are too many Christians on an atheist board. But I always thought that atheists should be pro-capitalism and Christians should be pro-communism. Religion is about giving up things now for the reward a better future life.

Nothing Jesus said could be construed as telling people to point guns at other people to take away and forcibly redistribute their stuff. Jesus wants you to help others with your stuff for the good of your own soul, not so others have more stuff.

As an all-powerful guy, if he wanted the poor to have more stuff he could have just whipped up a bunch of stuff and given it to them.

Uh, render unto Caesar and all that.

 

[dismal]

Nothing Jesus said could be construed as telling people to point guns at other people to take away and forcibly redistribute their stuff. Jesus wants you to help others with your stuff for the good of your own soul, not so others have more stuff.

As an all-powerful guy, if he wanted the poor to have more stuff he could have just whipped up a bunch of stuff and given it to them.

Uh, render unto Caesar and all that.

That supports communism? If anything it seems to support Caesar.

In any case you have not addressed the central point. If Jesus wanted the poor to have food, wealth, cars, whatever he could have simply given it to them.

Obviously this was not his priority.

 

[dismal]

Anyway, back to the topic:

In parts of Texas we seem to have moved on from shortages caused by the storm to shortages caused by panic buying consumers in areas not affected by the storm.

The great gasoline shortage of 2017 is now in effect due to greedy and rapacious consumer behavior:

http://www.centraltrack.com/look-idiots-going-nuts-gas-shortage/

Does it not seem reasonable to raise the price of gasoline to the point that would result in more societally optimal behavior? Say $4 or $5 bucks per gallon?

 

[Sarpedon]

Render unto Caesar only applies to animal by-products.

 

[ElectEngr]

I live in North Texas.

I filled up late Wed before or just as the panic started to set in.

My car only has a 9 gallon tank but gets 34.8 mi/gal and I've returned to the DART system to get to work. the Bus goes right by my work. Probably saves me 1.4 to 1.5 gallons/day and can probably go 2 weeks without refueling if I (figuratively) pushed it.

Later,
ElectEngr

 

[Derec]

Render unto Caesar only applies to animal by-products.

I thought it applied to money with Caesar's head on it.

¹³ And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to trap him in his talk.
¹⁴ And they came and said to him, “Teacher, we know that you are true and do not care about anyone's opinion. For you are not swayed by appearances,[c] but truly teach the way of God. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not? Should we pay them, or should we not?”
¹⁵ But, knowing their hypocrisy, he said to them, “Why put me to the test? Bring me a denarius[d] and let me look at it.”
¹⁶ And they brought one. And he said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said to him, “Caesar's.”
¹⁷ Jesus said to them, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.” And they marveled at him.

 

[Bronzeage]

What's wrong with increasing the price of something when the demand for it increases or the supply decreases? even if this is just a short-term change in demand/supply?

Doesn't the real value of something increase at a time when the demand for it increases or the supply decreases? Shouldn't the price and the real value go up and down together?

What's wrong with profiteers taking advantage of an increased need as a way to make more money, if what they're doing is meeting that need? Isn't it good to satisfy people's needs? even if it's a greedy profiteer who is satisfying the need? If someone is making people better off, why does it matter if they're motivated by greed?

("Price-gouging" here is not to be confused with PRICE-FIXING, where sellers engage in collusion to agree to drive prices higher than the competitive price.)

There is nothing wrong with price gouging, provided one is selling legally obtained goods. This is simple logic, but logic can be suspended, if enough people desire it.

In times past, humans suffered natural disaster with grim resolve, because nothing could be done about. Floods, earthquakes, great fires, etc, all endured and all we could do was wait for it to be over, if we survived. Fortunately, we live in a time when something can be done. We have an incredibly large and efficient system of government, which can concentrate resources and relieve people of their suffering. There is a general will to do this, as well as threatened disapproval of any government official who hesitates or fails to deliver relief.

It is strange to see this in practice. Those who begrudge aid to those who are chronically indigent due to poor government policy, happily tear open the public purse to help those who are suddenly and temporarily indigent due to bad weather.

This, "We're all in this together," spirit does not last long, but while it does, we get really pissed off when someone decides they are not in it with us, and decides to take advantage of our collective generosity. Price gouging is such a case. Anyone will agree that a person may sell their property for the highest price available at the moment, but there are times when we appreciate public tyranny.

 

[ksen]

Uh, render unto Caesar and all that.

That supports communism? If anything it seems to support Caesar.

In any case you have not addressed the central point. If Jesus wanted the poor to have food, wealth, cars, whatever he could have simply given it to them.

Obviously this was not his priority.

It supports Jesus telling his followers to obey the government they find themselves under. If that government happens to be communist then you obey their rules, move or be willing to face the consequences for not following the rules.

 

[dismal]

That supports communism? If anything it seems to support Caesar.

In any case you have not addressed the central point. If Jesus wanted the poor to have food, wealth, cars, whatever he could have simply given it to them.

Obviously this was not his priority.

It supports Jesus telling his followers to obey the government they find themselves under. If that government happens to be communist then you obey their rules, move or be willing to face the consequences for not following the rules.

Actually he's just fucking with the hypocrites who are trying to entrap him. It's deliberately ambiguous as it leaves open the question "hey, what is Caesar's?"

That one line has almost nothing to do with his central message on money, which is "don't allow it to get in the way of worshipping me". An excessive fixation on one line out of context to justify anything is rather sad and pathetic. Even worse on an atheist board.

 

[laughing dog]

It supports Jesus telling his followers to obey the government they find themselves under. If that government happens to be communist then you obey their rules, move or be willing to face the consequences for not following the rules.

Actually he's just fucking with the hypocrites who are trying to entrap him. It's deliberately ambiguous as it leaves open the question "hey, what is Caesar's?"

That one line has almost nothing to do with his central message on money, which is "don't allow it to get in the way of worshipping me". An excessive fixation on one line out of context to justify anything is rather sad and pathetic. Even worse on an atheist board.

Coming from liberatarian, that is hilariously ironic.