What's wrong with PRICE-GOUGING? during a DISASTER or any other time?

[dismal]

Not if it's priced out of your reach.

Possibly, But when you are talking shortages you can be shorted out of having it too. So the issue becomes when there isn't enough of something to go around, what is the best solution to allocate the resources and what are the tradeoffs. It also deals with economics in general too.

To be fair to ksen, look how well government mandated low prices are working in Venezuela.

And it's not like economics could predict what will happen when the government sets a price below the price which would equilibrate supply and demand.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Possibly, But when you are talking shortages you can be shorted out of having it too. So the issue becomes when there isn't enough of something to go around, what is the best solution to allocate the resources and what are the tradeoffs. It also deals with economics in general too.

To be fair to ksen, look how well government mandated low prices are working in Venezuela.

And it's not like economics could predict what will happen when the government sets a price below the price which would equilibrate supply and demand.

Toilet paper is a luxury in life that we can live without.

 

[fromderinside]

I'm all in favor of buyers setting the proportion of the product price the seller must pay in taxes. If they say nothing is due from the seller then the buyer is on the hook for services and benefits provided by the various levels of government.

 

[coloradoatheist]

I'm all in favor of buyers setting the proportion of the product price the seller must pay in taxes. If they say nothing is due from the seller then the buyer is on the hook for services and benefits provided by the various levels of government.

Huh? How does the buyer know what is needed when it's easier for the seller to know and add it to every POS exchange?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

How about the fact that in addition to losing their homes people now have to pay for overpriced food to survive? This isn't that complicated to figure out. There is no debate here.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

"I just lost everything due to a natural disaster. I can't afford this food. Seems fair to me." In what twisted world do you live in that price gouging is fair?

 

[GenesisNemesis]

If you think price gouging is just fine, you're implying that it's the person's fault that they can't afford food during a natural disaster, where they lost everything.

 

[Angry Floof]

"I just lost everything due to a natural disaster. I can't afford this food. Seems fair to me." In what twisted world do you live in that price gouging is fair?

The twisted world of stunted minds that see suffering human beings as prey. Libertarians and capitalists are sociopathic predators at heart.

 

[fast]

I'm all in favor of buyers setting the proportion of the product price the seller must pay in taxes. If they say nothing is due from the seller then the buyer is on the hook for services and benefits provided by the various levels of government.

Are you talking about sales tax? I used to think the seller was responsible, and though I understood (or at least thought I understood) the confusion as why so many people thought incorrectly, I was ultimately the one that was mistaken--a hard to pill to swallow, that one. At any rate, my new view is that the buyer is the one responsible.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

Thread title is, more accurately "What's wrong with making people suffer more unnecessarily during a natural disaster?"

 

[Angry Floof]

Thread title is, more accurately "What's wrong with making people suffer more unnecessarily during a natural disaster?"

Yep, "kick 'em when they're down" is the mentality of sociopaths and predators and generally heartless, unaware cunts.

 

[coloradoatheist]

"I just lost everything due to a natural disaster. I can't afford this food. Seems fair to me." In what twisted world do you live in that price gouging is fair?

The twisted world of stunted minds that see suffering human beings as prey. Libertarians and capitalists are sociopathic predators at heart.

The issue is what happens when there isn't enough to go around. The issues that occur are how do you make sure people have a chance to get it. How do you prevent people who don't need it from taking it from people who do. And how do you get it so things are quickly restored.

 

[fast]

"I just lost everything due to a natural disaster. I can't afford this food. Seems fair to me." In what twisted world do you live in that price gouging is fair?

The twisted world of stunted minds that see suffering human beings as prey. Libertarians and capitalists are sociopathic predators at heart.

Price gouging is fair, but it's wrong. If we arbitrarily price gouge some and not others, then it's both unfair and wrong. If we look to right and wrong as to whether to price gouge or not, then we shouldn't price gouge (for its wrong); however, if we look only to whether it's fair or not, then if it's fair, we could price gouge--fairly. But, we don't look to fairness but rather right and wrong. In absence of a clear right and wrong, (brought about by varying moral shades of gray), we might give some added weight to its legality. It's illegal. Seems between it being likely wrong and arguably illegal, we should refrain from price gouging--not because of some distorted notion that it's somehow unfair.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

The twisted world of stunted minds that see suffering human beings as prey. Libertarians and capitalists are sociopathic predators at heart.

Price gouging is fair, but it's wrong. If we arbitrarily price gouge some and not others, then it's both unfair and wrong. If we look to right and wrong as to whether to price gouge or not, then we shouldn't price gouge (for its wrong); however, if we look only to whether it's fair or not, then if it's fair, we could price gouge--fairly. But, we don't look to fairness but rather right and wrong. In absence of a clear right and wrong, (brought about by varying moral shades of gray), we might give some added weight to its legality. It's illegal. Seems between it being likely wrong and arguably illegal, we should refrain from price gouging--not because of some distorted notion that it's somehow unfair.

It's not unfair to make it harder for people to afford food during a natural disaster after they lost everything? That's the definition of unfair. Seems like your definition of fairness is distorted.

 

[fast]

It's not unfair to make it harder for people to afford food during a natural disaster after they lost everything?

It's wrong to make it harder for people to afford food during a natural disaster after they lost everything. We both believe that. You're the one taking it further and saying that it's also unfair. What's unfair about it?

 

[Canard DuJour]

Not if it's priced out of your reach.

Possibly, But when you are talking shortages you can be shorted out of having it too. So the issue becomes when there isn't enough of something to go around, what is the best solution to allocate the resources and what are the tradeoffs. It also deals with economics in general too.

Indeed. Arguably, markets for essentials should be suspended for the duration of the emergency and essentials rationed per capita and/or need. Vendors would be compensated later at the going rate.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

It's not unfair to make it harder for people to afford food during a natural disaster after they lost everything?

It's wrong to make it harder for people to afford food during a natural disaster after they lost everything. We both believe that. You're the one taking it further and saying that it's also unfair. What's unfair about it?

It should be pretty self-evident.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

The twisted world of stunted minds that see suffering human beings as prey. Libertarians and capitalists are sociopathic predators at heart.

The issue is what happens when there isn't enough to go around. The issues that occur are how do you make sure people have a chance to get it. How do you prevent people who don't need it from taking it from people who do. And how do you get it so things are quickly restored.

The best way to allocate the resources is firstly towards the people who lost everything. If the people who lost everything can't afford those resources, you're not doing a very good job of allocating those resources in the first place.

 

[coloradoatheist]

Possibly, But when you are talking shortages you can be shorted out of having it too. So the issue becomes when there isn't enough of something to go around, what is the best solution to allocate the resources and what are the tradeoffs. It also deals with economics in general too.

Indeed. Arguably, markets for essentials should be suspended for the duration of the emergency and essentials rationed per capita and/or need. Vendors would be compensated later at the going rate.

Except price changing is a rationing mechanism and one that has other positive side benefits too.

 

[Canard DuJour]

I don't think anyone particularly objects to prices rising in order to divert resources to where they're needed. What raises the moral hackles - what people mean by "price gouging" - is hugely raising the price of an existing supply in order to exploit desperate circumstances. Eg raising the price of an existing stock of bottled water from $1 to $10 or $100 per bottle.

If anyone needs it explaining to them why this elicits moral indignation, then no one is going to be able to explain it to them. In the abstract, it almost certainly has to do with our having evolved in resource-pooling social bands. Some folks genuinely, through no fault of their own, lack that moral perception, like other folks don't percieve certain colours or tastes.

Yes, this is why people who bought their houses in the 1970s for a tenth of what they sell for now always refuse the markup and sell way below what the market will offer them.

Nah, that's just selling at the going rate in normal circumstances. Pretty much the opposite of price gouging.