White people and BLM

[Koyaanisqatsi]

He just says flat out that he doesn't think he's been the target of racism in Denmark. When angry people yell "nigger" at him, he doesn't register that as racism. Just somebody trying really hard to use hurty words.

Aka, "racism." Why else does he think they were trying really hard to use "hurty words"?

I don't think so. Not necessarily. Racism is when somebody is angry at him because he's black. Or that he's treated differently because of his skin colour. If he'd gotten into an argument with somebody and been white, they might have instead called him a "cunt" or something equally colourful. If all the "racism" does is inform what insult is used by somebody already angry, it's not really racism IMHO. I think that's just trying too hard to find things that aren't really there.

That doesn't make any sense. The scenario you're painting is where person A is angry at your friend for something he did and so to express that anger, person A calls him a nigger. That's still racist, whether it's directed at your friend because he is black or not.

All your friend is doing is deflecting away from being the direct object of the insult, but it doesn't change the fact that whoever hurled the word "nigger" at him was using the word pejoratively.

To a hammer everything is a nail. You can interpret anything as racism if you try hard enough. Isn't that what you are doing?

Calling someone a "nigger" is a very specific "nail." Unlike "cunt," there is no other meaning for the word "nigger."

 

[DrZoidberg]

I don't think so. Not necessarily. Racism is when somebody is angry at him because he's black. Or that he's treated differently because of his skin colour. If he'd gotten into an argument with somebody and been white, they might have instead called him a "cunt" or something equally colourful. If all the "racism" does is inform what insult is used by somebody already angry, it's not really racism IMHO. I think that's just trying too hard to find things that aren't really there.

That doesn't make any sense. The scenario you're painting is where person A is angry at your friend for something he did and so to express that anger, person A calls him a nigger. That's still racist, whether it's directed at your friend because he is black or not.

All your friend is doing is deflecting away from being the direct object of the insult, but it doesn't change the fact that whoever hurled the word "nigger" at him was using the word pejoratively.

To a hammer everything is a nail. You can interpret anything as racism if you try hard enough. Isn't that what you are doing?

Calling someone a "nigger" is a very specific "nail." Unlike "cunt," there is no other meaning for the word "nigger."

I think we're just goint to have to agree to disagree. Because I can't see you have a leg to stand on. What you are saying makes no sense to me.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

That doesn't make any sense. The scenario you're painting is where person A is angry at your friend for something he did and so to express that anger, person A calls him a nigger. That's still racist, whether it's directed at your friend because he is black or not.

All your friend is doing is deflecting away from being the direct object of the insult, but it doesn't change the fact that whoever hurled the word "nigger" at him was using the word pejoratively.

To a hammer everything is a nail. You can interpret anything as racism if you try hard enough. Isn't that what you are doing?

Calling someone a "nigger" is a very specific "nail." Unlike "cunt," there is no other meaning for the word "nigger."

I think we're just goint to have to agree to disagree. Because I can't see you have a leg to stand on. What you are saying makes no sense to me.

So, you can think of another meaning for the word "nigger" that isn't racist yet is still hurled as an insult in anger? Genuine question, as I can't figure out what scenario your friend could possibly have been referring to in saying that someone, in anger, calling him a "nigger," could not be considered racist.

That must mean that there is some other definition/use of the word "nigger" that somehow is both an insult said in anger and yet not racist, yes? In the example you gave, "cunt" can be referring to a woman's vagina OR it can be referring to, in certain cultures, a jerk (or other form of individual behaving in a particularly off putting manner).

But, no one is going to say, in anger, "You're acting like a woman's vagina." It's ridiculous and not in any way insulting even if they did say it.

So, in what scenario does "nigger" have an alternative meaning that isn't racist, even if yelled in anger?

 

[Keith&Co.]

Racism is when ... he's treated differently because of his skin colour.

....such as shouting "nigger" at him.
Why the fuck wouldn't that qualify?

I mean, more power to him if he chooses to rise above it, but less power to him if he honestly thinks this word is used independent of his skin color.

 

[Keith&Co.]

So, in what scenario does "nigger" have an alternative meaning that isn't racist, even if yelled in anger?

"You so stupid you spell negro with two 'g's"?
"You so illiterate you spell land-locked West African republic with Two G's!"

Or the river. Could be the river. Rivver, i guess.
Or the country on the other side of that river. Rivveria.

Seems subtle for an insult, but it is quick.

 

[DrZoidberg]

I think we're just goint to have to agree to disagree. Because I can't see you have a leg to stand on. What you are saying makes no sense to me.

So, you can think of another meaning for the word "nigger" that isn't racist yet is still hurled as an insult in anger? Genuine question, as I can't figure out what scenario your friend could possibly have been referring to in saying that someone, in anger, calling him a "nigger," could not be considered racist.

That must mean that there is some other definition/use of the word "nigger" that somehow is both an insult said in anger and yet not racist, yes? In the example you gave, "cunt" can be referring to a woman's vagina OR it can be referring to, in certain cultures, a jerk (or other form of individual behaving in a particularly off putting manner).

But, no one is going to say, in anger, "You're acting like a woman's vagina." It's ridiculous and not in any way insulting even if they did say it.

So, in what scenario does "nigger" have an alternative meaning that isn't racist, even if yelled in anger?

What? WTF are you babbling about? This is incoherent

 

[DrZoidberg]

Racism is when ... he's treated differently because of his skin colour.

....such as shouting "nigger" at him.
Why the fuck wouldn't that qualify?

I mean, more power to him if he chooses to rise above it, but less power to him if he honestly thinks this word is used independent of his skin color.

That's not being treated differently. If someone is shouting in anger at him for a reason unrelated to race, what is, said is of less consequence than the fact its being shouted. Angry people say a lot of things they might later regret. Often angry people are just trying to push angry buttons in the other to provoke a reaction. Just anything that might hurt.

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

I think we're just goint to have to agree to disagree. Because I can't see you have a leg to stand on. What you are saying makes no sense to me.

So, you can think of another meaning for the word "nigger" that isn't racist yet is still hurled as an insult in anger? Genuine question, as I can't figure out what scenario your friend could possibly have been referring to in saying that someone, in anger, calling him a "nigger," could not be considered racist.

That must mean that there is some other definition/use of the word "nigger" that somehow is both an insult said in anger and yet not racist, yes? In the example you gave, "cunt" can be referring to a woman's vagina OR it can be referring to, in certain cultures, a jerk (or other form of individual behaving in a particularly off putting manner).

But, no one is going to say, in anger, "You're acting like a woman's vagina." It's ridiculous and not in any way insulting even if they did say it.

So, in what scenario does "nigger" have an alternative meaning that isn't racist, even if yelled in anger?

What? WTF are you babbling about? This is incoherent

 

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Racism is when ... he's treated differently because of his skin colour.

....such as shouting "nigger" at him.
Why the fuck wouldn't that qualify?

I mean, more power to him if he chooses to rise above it, but less power to him if he honestly thinks this word is used independent of his skin color.

That's not being treated differently. If someone is shouting in anger at him for a reason unrelated to race, what is, said is of less consequence than the fact its being shouted. Angry people say a lot of things they might later regret. Often angry people are just trying to push angry buttons in the other to provoke a reaction. Just anything that might hurt.

And why would the person shouting "nigger" at your friend think it might hurt? Because the person shouting it is a racist and thinks the word "nigger" is an insult.

Just change it up. Your friend isn't black, he's asian and Person A calls him a "nigger" in anger as an insult. Is Person A a racist? Yes, because he (a) thinks being a black person--aka, "nigger"-- is an insult and (b) is comparing your asian friend to being a black person by calling him "nigger" in anger.

Once again, "nigger" has no alternative meaning. It is a pejorative term that reduces and denigrates all black people to being subhuman. If I am calling you a "nigger" in anger, I am calling you a subhuman being. Your own skin color may not be full of melanin for it to nevertheless be racist for me to call you a nigger.

So, unless someone is calling your friend that as a tasteless joke and not in genuine anger, then, again, I don't see how it's not racist. I've said a lot of things in anger, but calling a black person (or anyone) "nigger" in anger would only reveal my perhaps here-to-fore latent racism.

 

[Keith&Co.]

That's not being treated differently. If someone is shouting in anger at him for a reason unrelated to race, what is, said is of less consequence than the fact its being shouted.

False.
There's a scene in the movie, Porky's. A redneck is trying to bait a Jewish kid, shouting, "This is sure good KITE flying weather."
Jewish kid has to interrupt the racism to explain the term is "Kike," not "Kite." And suggest he's too stupid to even be a redneck. Because if you're going to use a RACIST SLUR you need to enunciate.

 

[prideandfall]

And why would the person shouting "nigger" at your friend think it might hurt?

because it's a word that has been used to denigrate and slander blacks for hundreds of years.

Because the person shouting it is a racist and thinks the word "nigger" is an insult.

that's like saying if you call somebody a cunt you're vaginaphobic or a misogynist.
it's possible, sure, but it doesn't automatically track.

So, unless someone is calling your friend that as a tasteless joke and not in genuine anger, then, again, I don't see how it's not racist. I've said a lot of things in anger, but calling a black person (or anyone) "nigger" in anger would only reveal my perhaps here-to-fore latent racism.

can be. isn't necessarily.

 

[Politesse]

If you call a woman a "cunt", you don't deserve the benefit of a doubt for that either. What are you even on about?

It's your job not to present yourself as a bigoted asshole, not everyone else's job to dive deep and find the inner you beneath your harsh words. You aren't that important.

 

[prideandfall]

If you call a woman a "cunt", you don't deserve the benefit of a doubt for that either. What are you even on about?

It's your job not to present yourself as a bigoted asshole, not everyone else's job to dive deep and find the inner you beneath your harsh words. You aren't that important.

so your argument is basically that you're psychic and that whatever you determine to be the cause of other people's behavior is true, and it's up to the rest of the world to go out of their way to prove you wrong.

got it.

 

[Politesse]

If you call a woman a "cunt", you don't deserve the benefit of a doubt for that either. What are you even on about?

It's your job not to present yourself as a bigoted asshole, not everyone else's job to dive deep and find the inner you beneath your harsh words. You aren't that important.

so your argument is basically that you're psychic and that whatever you determine to be the cause of other people's behavior is true, and it's up to the rest of the world to go out of their way to prove you wrong.

got it.

Er, no. MY point is that your rich inner life is both inaccessible and almost entirely unimportant. If you want to be understood as a nice guy by others, don't use slurs. Words are for communication. That is their job. Choose yours more carefully if you don't like being seen as a bigot.

 

[prideandfall]

Er, no. MY point is that your rich inner life is both inaccessible and almost entirely unimportant.

right, inaccessible - therefor, you politesse get to mandate what everyone else is thinking and the reasons for what they're doing. you have assigned yourself as the arbiter of human behavior. guess one can't argue with that.

If you want to be understood as a nice guy by others, don't use slurs. Words are for communication. That is their job. Choose yours more carefully if you don't like being seen as a bigot.

and if a person ever makes a particular sequence of noises for any reason, you're the one who decides what that reason is. got it.

 

[Politesse]

Er, no. MY point is that your rich inner life is both inaccessible and almost entirely unimportant.

right, inaccessible - therefor, you politesse get to mandate what everyone else is thinking and the reasons for what they're doing. you have assigned yourself as the arbiter of human behavior. guess one can't argue with that.

If you want to be understood as a nice guy by others, don't use slurs. Words are for communication. That is their job. Choose yours more carefully if you don't like being seen as a bigot.

and if a person ever makes a particular sequence of noises for any reason, you're the one who decides what that reason is. got it.

Again, no. I am not the arbiter of your thoughts. You are responsible for how you communicate those thoughts through your words and actions. It's not anyone else's job to psychoanalyze you to try and determine whether you really really mean the slurs you use. We don't owe you anything of the sort. If you use bigoted language, expect to be assumed a bigot. You're not a child and this isn't your second language. You had a choice not to talk like that, and you chose to do so anyway. No one is going to devote themselves to determining whether you are truly good at heart, whatever that might mean. Why on earth would I be responsible for your poor language choices?

I'm not claiming to know the innermost song of your soul. I'm saying if you call me a faggot, you should get punched in the face, whether or not you really really didn't mean it deep down in your soul. Get an imaginary friend if you want someone to care about what you mean, the rest of us have only your words and actions to go by.

 

[prideandfall]

Again, no. I am not the arbiter of your thoughts. You are responsible for how you communicate those thoughts through your words and actions. It's not anyone else's job to psychoanalyze you to try and determine whether you really really mean the slurs you use. We don't owe you anything of the sort.

right, so... what you're saying is there's no way to know someone's intent unless you get down into the nitty gritty details of their thoughts.
unless it's you, politesse, doing the assuming - in which case whatever snap judgment you make is correct and and any attempt to second guess you is egregious.

you've repeated this over and over, i get it, just establishing the rules that you've been setting down.

I'm not claiming to know the innermost song of your soul. I'm saying if you call me a faggot, you get punched in the face, whether or not you really really didn't mean it deep down in your soul. Get an imaginary friend if you want someone to care about what you mean, the rest of us have only your words and actions to go by.

for the record, this entire post of yours is either one of the most grievous abuses of the concept of the "royal you" i've ever seen, or else you are seriously trying to suggest any sort of moral deviance on my part which would not only be fucking hilarious, but show the idiocy of your claims of telepathy even more than the argument itself has been doing.

 

[prideandfall]

That's not being treated differently. If someone is shouting in anger at him for a reason unrelated to race, what is, said is of less consequence than the fact its being shouted. Angry people say a lot of things they might later regret. Often angry people are just trying to push angry buttons in the other to provoke a reaction. Just anything that might hurt.

it's so bizarre the way some humans feel compelled to scream insults at random passersby, and ironic that the people who tend to do this are also the ones too stupid to come up with anything clever.
i've had insults hurled at me for most of my life from people driving by in cars, or growled at me by people passing me by in a shopping mall, or passive-aggressively at work - i'm a tall skinny white guy, so it's an interesting glimpse into the psychology of those with a cro magnon-esque compulsion to be confrontational pieces of shit, and what their feeble minds can manage to scrape together as something "insulting" to say to a stranger.

when i was 20 and the columbine school shooting happened in colorado, i never once thought the people screaming "trenchcoat faggot" at me as i sat at a bus stop were trying to slur gays or people who wear trenchcoats, they just lacked the mental capacity to come up with anything else besides superficial physical traits to say out loud in the 5 seconds they had to take the opportunity.

in america i'm pretty confident there'd be a more racially biased component to it since there's a lot more history with the linguistics of that word here, but in sweden i can see the point where it wouldn't be too different from any other slur levied against someone for an obvious physical characteristic.
that's the nature of petty human anger, just identify any given thing about the target and yell a noun at them. it's pathetic, but i can see the point where it's not necessarily about racism.

 

[Politesse]

Again, no. I am not the arbiter of your thoughts. You are responsible for how you communicate those thoughts through your words and actions. It's not anyone else's job to psychoanalyze you to try and determine whether you really really mean the slurs you use. We don't owe you anything of the sort.

right, so... what you're saying is there's no way to know someone's intent unless you get down into the nitty gritty details of their thoughts.
unless it's you, politesse, doing the assuming - in which case whatever snap judgment you make is correct and and any attempt to second guess you is egregious.

you've repeated this over and over, i get it, just establishing the rules that you've been setting down.

I'm not claiming to know the innermost song of your soul. I'm saying if you call me a faggot, you get punched in the face, whether or not you really really didn't mean it deep down in your soul. Get an imaginary friend if you want someone to care about what you mean, the rest of us have only your words and actions to go by.

for the record, this entire post of yours is either one of the most grievous abuses of the concept of the "royal you" i've ever seen, or else you are seriously trying to suggest any sort of moral deviance on my part which would not only be fucking hilarious, but show the idiocy of your claims of telepathy even more than the argument itself has been doing.

I just assumed you use racial and misogynist slurs yourself, given that you are so passionate on the subject. If not, why not, since according to you, no one should ever dare assume you mean them when you say them? And yes, I'm the one doing the assuming, because it is entirely reasonable to assume that someone means the things they say. Of course that's what I assume. That's what anyone would assume.

 

[prideandfall]

I just assumed you use racial and misogynist slurs yourself, given that you are so passionate on the subject. If not, why not, since according to you, no one should ever dare assume you mean them when you say them? And yes, I'm the one doing the assuming, because it is entirely reasonable to assume that someone means the things they say. Of course that's what I assume. That's what anyone would assume.

i'm sure if you continue to dig this hole, you'll eventually wind up outside of it.