White People Think Black People Are Magical

[AthenaAwakened]

I identify characters in a movie as characters based on their contribution to the film, not their race.

There is no difference between Newhart's and Smith's character in the the two films previously cited. They both offer an absurd amount of help in a manner wholly unexpected based on the origins or lack there of those characters.

I agree. And the prejudices of the writers also play a role.

Not until you give a bunch of examples.

 List of Magical Negro occurrences in fiction

Just how many do you need?

I already said several.

That list is only the tiniest tip of that iceberg.

Red from Shawshank? How is he a "magic negro"? He is a guy that has been in prison for several decades and transformed into a guy who can get things. There is nothing magic about him, not only is he is the best character in the film, he is also one of the main characters, not a supporting one. What makes Morgan Freeman in Seven not a magic negro relative to Shawshank Redemption?

Rufus in Dogma? Shall we whine about Alanis Morrisette being God? It is the same gag.

Morpheus? That is perhaps the worst one. Morpheus is one of the major leaders of a revolt against the machines, and he has a history. Neo was the magical one.

Lamont in American History X? You mean the character that helps explain how a neonazi is able to survive in prison without protection from his former neonazi brothers? That isn't a magic, it is necessary for the development of Norton's character. How the heck is a neo-nazi supposed to just unneo-nazi up without having some sort of experience that involves a black guy who's magical power is apparently the ability to fold laundry. This is probably the second worst comparison as Lamont isn't a plot device. It is how the main character wakes up. It isn't a device, it a major part of the plot.

Bubba from Forrest Gump? Seems like any black guy can be considered a "magic negro" as long as they contributed to a plot positively.

Shazzam? What? Are we upset that Yul Brenner didn't get casted?

Happy Gilmore, Holy Man? Are we scraping the bucket?

We can show more and together we can dissect each to the minutest detail

May need to. There are a lot of characters there that don't seem to fall under the category that the wiki article is talking about.

There is no doubt that media can have an issue with the portrayal of blacks. I've already noted the desert sparse attempts to allow blacks to act on screen for 30 to 40 years. That in general, the best role they could get was sassy housekeeper (and while Hattie McDonnell could really pull off that role... see The Male Animal or Alice Adams, she was capable of more, see In This Our Lives). Butterfly McQueen would give up the screen altogether because of the disturbing cast typing.

But this thing about "magic negroes" really seems to be ignoring a plot device that applies to whites as well, it is just for some reason, people seem to pick up on it because the character is black.

Bob Newhart in Legally Blonde II
Joe Pesci in With Honors
If Morpheus counts, then so would Frances McDormand in Fargo
Cary Grant in Topper
Aunt Josephine in Anne of Green Gables
Matthew McConaughey in Contact

People seem to be noticing the race which helps a race instead of just seeing the plot device.

It is not a question of noticing race, but which race has the history of being relegated time and time again to a stereotypical role.

Lynching was a practice used in the Southern United States primarily for the terrorizing of black people. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

Now that doesn't mean that other people were never lynched in the South. Hence we have the case of  Leo Frank.

And Leo Frank does not disprove that lynching was a practice used in the Southern United States primarily for the terrorizing of black people.

So to say that some white actors played these characters too mean that the magic negro is not a true character in fiction is disingenuous at best.

The Magic Negro as a stock character in the American narrative goes back to the beginnings of our literary traditions. A derivative of James Fenimore Cooper's Noble Savage in the Leather Stocking Tales, we see the negro as transforming agent for the white protagonist in Huckleberry Finn, as soothsayer and magical hunter in Moby Dick, in the long suffering Uncle Tom who shows others the way to Jesus in Uncle Tom's Cabin. These characters are the agents of change but can never change themselves. they possess great power, but are never allowed to wield it for there own advantage.

This character moved through the pulp western dime store novels and staged melodramas that gave rise to the popular myth of the old west and then made its way into the new medium of movies.

By 1915 and the film Birth of a Nation the stereotypes of Mammy and Big Sambo were clearly represented and strongly established as stock characters in the American narrative. Mammy and Big Sambo were fiercely loyal to their masters and even though they possessed great mother wit and physical strength, they would never use those attributes for betterment of themselves and their kin, but only toward the betterment of the lives of their white owners and later employers.

Until after WWII, these characterizations of black life were dominant in the narrative of cinema. With the ending of the war, Hollywood began, ever so cautiously, to explore more three dimensional portrayal of black characters and black life, the 1950's culmination ofwhich was Carmen Jones. But the old ideas still rang true more most white Americans and they show that belief by making TV shows like Beulah and The Jack Benny Show(with its portrayal of Rodchester), top rated hits.

Sidney Poitier made his bones playing the super negro. Starting with No Way Out and culminating in In the Heat Of the Night and Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, the nobility of Poitier becomes almost another character in the films. His character becomes so good at saving white folk and making them better than they were, he does it wholesale in To Sir with Love, where now he works his magic on entire classrooms of white youth. Usually desexualized and always perfect in decorum, white America ate Poitier up. He was the Huxtable of his time. "If only more black folk could be like him."

In the seventies come blaxploitation movies and at least black people get to have sex and shoot back when lynching party comes a knocking. But even then you still have the major films of the time, when black actors are cast, portraying the black characters as helpers to the white protagonist. Television does better, thanks in no small part to Normal Lear, in showing more fleshed out black characters and even affording black actors starring roles.

With the eighties and The Cosby Show, many people thought that the one note magic negro was put to bed, or at least was putting on his pajamas, but alas no.

Over the last three decade, the magic negro has resurged and is just a seductive as ever.

Oda Mae Brown (Whoopi Goldberg) in Ghost (1990)[6]
Azeem (Morgan Freeman) in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (1991)[7]
Benjamin Buford "Bubba" Blue (Mykelti Williamson) in Forrest Gump (1994)[4][8]
Moses (Bill Cobbs) in The Hudsucker Proxy (1994)[9]
Ellis Boyd "Red" Redding (Morgan Freeman) in The Shawshank Redemption (1994)[10]
Chubbs (Carl Weathers) in Happy Gilmore (1996)[11]
Kazaam (Shaquille O'Neal) in Kazaam (1996)[12]
Lamont (Guy Torry) in the film American History X (1998)[13]
Rastaman (Amiri Baraka) in Bulworth (1998)[14]
G (Eddie Murphy) in Holy Man (1998)[11]
Rufus (Chris Rock) in Dogma (1999)[4]
John Coffey (Michael Clarke Duncan) in The Green Mile (1999)[15]
Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne) and the Oracle (Gloria Foster / Mary Alice) in The Matrix (1999) and its sequels[11][16]
2000s[edit]
Elliot's cellmate/God (Gabriel Casseus) in Bedazzled (2000)[17]
Cash (Don Cheadle) in The Family Man (2000)[2][16][18][18]
The mortician William Bludworth (Tony Todd) in Final Destination (2000), Final Destination 2 (2003) and Final Destination 5 (2011)[19]
Bagger Vance (Will Smith) in The Legend of Bagger Vance (2000)[1][2][4][16][18]
"The Blind Seer" (Lee Weaver) in O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)[17]
Jezelle Gay Hartman (Patricia Belcher), a clairvoyant who sacrifices herself to warn and protect two young, white, twentysomething siblings in Jeepers Creepers (2001)[20]
The Wise Janitor (Mr. T) in Not Another Teen Movie (2001) directly parodies the concept[19]
Abou Fatma (Djimon Hounsou) in The Four Feathers (2002)[21]
Mateo (Djimon Hounsou) in In America (2002)[4]
Gabriel (Delroy Lindo) in The Simpsons episode "Brawl in the Family" (2002)[19] which spoofs the trope, Homer first believing him to be an angel
God (Morgan Freeman) in the films Bruce Almighty (2003) and Evan Almighty (2007)[4][22]
Alex "Hitch" Hitchens (Will Smith) in Hitch (2004)[4]
Sam (Morgan Freeman) in Unleashed (2005)[4]
Charles (Afemo Omilami) in Hounddog (2007)[23]
Solo (Souléymane Sy Savané) in Goodbye Solo (2008), in which a chance meeting motivates a pure-hearted Senagalese immigrant to guide a bitter white man through his late-life emotional baggage.[24]
August (Queen Latifah), May (Sophie Okonedo) and June (Alicia Keys) in The Secret Life of Bees (2008)[8]
Louise (Jennifer Hudson) in Sex and the City (2008), where Carrie Bradshaw's emotional recuperation depends entirely on the labor of her plucky black personal assistant, who is disengaged from the storyline as soon as Carrie starts to feel better.[25]
2010s[edit]
Brother Sam (Mos Def/Yasiin Bey), a character who appears in five episodes of the sixth season of Dexter (2011)[26]
The janitor (Jordan Peele) and the copier repair man (Keegan-Michael Key) in a "magic negro" skit on Key & Peele (2012)[27]​

 List of Magical Negro occurrences in fiction

There is a historical line that can be drawn shows the magical negro time and time again being used as a way to placate white fear, justifiy white compliance with the status quo, and as a role model to African Americans of proper black behavior.

Oh, about this list

Bob Newhart in Legally Blonde II
Joe Pesci in With Honors
If Morpheus counts, then so would Frances McDormand in Fargo
Cary Grant in Topper
Aunt Josephine in Anne of Green Gables
Matthew McConaughey in Contact

Of the white actors on this list, how many do you think get offered the helper role in movies the majority of the time? anyone can go slumming for a day, but few people who do actually choose to live there.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

It is not a question of noticing race, but which race has the history of being relegated time and time again to a stereotypical role.

But is it so when white characters are noted in such similar roles?

Lynching was a practice used in the Southern United States primarily for the terrorizing of black people. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

Now that doesn't mean that other people were never lynched in the South. Hence we have the case of  Leo Frank.

And Leo Frank does not disprove that lynching was a practice used in the Southern United States primarily for the terrorizing of black people.

So to say that some white actors played these characters too mean that the magic negro is not a true character in fiction is disingenuous at best.

The Magic Negro as a stock character in the American narrative goes back to the beginnings of our literary traditions. A derivative of James Fenimore Cooper's Noble Savage in the Leather Stocking Tales, we see the negro as transforming agent for the white protagonist in Huckleberry Finn, as soothsayer and magical hunter in Moby Dick, in the long suffering Uncle Tom who shows others the way to Jesus in Uncle Tom's Cabin. These characters are the agents of change but can never change themselves. they possess great power, but are never allowed to wield it for there own advantage.

This character moved through the pulp western dime store novels and staged melodramas that gave rise to the popular myth of the old west and then made its way into the new medium of movies.

By 1915 and the film Birth of a Nation the stereotypes of Mammy and Big Sambo were clearly represented and strongly established as stock characters in the American narrative. Mammy and Big Sambo were fiercely loyal to their masters and even though they possessed great mother wit and physical strength, they would never use those attributes for betterment of themselves and their kin, but only toward the betterment of the lives of their white owners and later employers.

Until after WWII, these characterizations of black life were dominant in the narrative of cinema. With the ending of the war, Hollywood began, ever so cautiously, to explore more three dimensional portrayal of black characters and black life, the 1950's culmination ofwhich was Carmen Jones. But the old ideas still rang true more most white Americans and they show that belief by making TV shows like Beulah and The Jack Benny Show(with its portrayal of Rodchester), top rated hits.

Sidney Poitier made his bones playing the super negro. Starting with No Way Out and culminating in In the Heat Of the Night and Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, the nobility of Poitier becomes almost another character in the films. His character becomes so good at saving white folk and making them better than they were, he does it wholesale in To Sir with Love, where now he works his magic on entire classrooms of white youth. Usually desexualized and always perfect in decorum, white America ate Poitier up. He was the Huxtable of his time. "If only more black folk could be like him."

In the seventies come blaxploitation movies and at least black people get to have sex and shoot back when lynching party comes a knocking. But even then you still have the major films of the time, when black actors are cast, portraying the black characters as helpers to the white protagonist. Television does better, thanks in no small part to Normal Lear, in showing more fleshed out black characters and even affording black actors starring roles.

With the eighties and The Cosby Show, many people thought that the one note magic negro was put to bed, or at least was putting on his pajamas, but alas no.

None of this is in doubt. I do not disagree with any of it, though to consider Poitier a "Magic Negro" in The Heat of the Night is a bit flawed, as his character wasn't entirely on the up and up as he initially tried to implicate Endicott with the murder. He almost was killed too by a group of hillbillies, but because of the intervention of the white sheriff, he survived, which actually makes him the magic guy, not Poitier. Poitier not only starred in the film, he was the expert police officer. The Sheriff was the one batting over his average.

Over the last three decade, the magic negro has resurged and is just a seductive as ever.

Oda Mae Brown (Whoopi Goldberg) in Ghost (1990)[6]
Azeem (Morgan Freeman) in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (1991)[7]
Benjamin Buford "Bubba" Blue (Mykelti Williamson) in Forrest Gump (1994)[4][8]
Moses (Bill Cobbs) in The Hudsucker Proxy (1994)[9]
Ellis Boyd "Red" Redding (Morgan Freeman) in The Shawshank Redemption (1994)[10]
Chubbs (Carl Weathers) in Happy Gilmore (1996)[11]
Kazaam (Shaquille O'Neal) in Kazaam (1996)[12]
Lamont (Guy Torry) in the film American History X (1998)[13]
Rastaman (Amiri Baraka) in Bulworth (1998)[14]
G (Eddie Murphy) in Holy Man (1998)[11]
Rufus (Chris Rock) in Dogma (1999)[4]
John Coffey (Michael Clarke Duncan) in The Green Mile (1999)[15]
Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne) and the Oracle (Gloria Foster / Mary Alice) in The Matrix (1999) and its sequels[11][16]
2000s[edit]
Elliot's cellmate/God (Gabriel Casseus) in Bedazzled (2000)[17]
Cash (Don Cheadle) in The Family Man (2000)[2][16][18][18]
The mortician William Bludworth (Tony Todd) in Final Destination (2000), Final Destination 2 (2003) and Final Destination 5 (2011)[19]
Bagger Vance (Will Smith) in The Legend of Bagger Vance (2000)[1][2][4][16][18]
"The Blind Seer" (Lee Weaver) in O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)[17]
Jezelle Gay Hartman (Patricia Belcher), a clairvoyant who sacrifices herself to warn and protect two young, white, twentysomething siblings in Jeepers Creepers (2001)[20]
The Wise Janitor (Mr. T) in Not Another Teen Movie (2001) directly parodies the concept[19]
Abou Fatma (Djimon Hounsou) in The Four Feathers (2002)[21]
Mateo (Djimon Hounsou) in In America (2002)[4]
Gabriel (Delroy Lindo) in The Simpsons episode "Brawl in the Family" (2002)[19] which spoofs the trope, Homer first believing him to be an angel
God (Morgan Freeman) in the films Bruce Almighty (2003) and Evan Almighty (2007)[4][22]
Alex "Hitch" Hitchens (Will Smith) in Hitch (2004)[4]
Sam (Morgan Freeman) in Unleashed (2005)[4]
Charles (Afemo Omilami) in Hounddog (2007)[23]
Solo (Souléymane Sy Savané) in Goodbye Solo (2008), in which a chance meeting motivates a pure-hearted Senagalese immigrant to guide a bitter white man through his late-life emotional baggage.[24]
August (Queen Latifah), May (Sophie Okonedo) and June (Alicia Keys) in The Secret Life of Bees (2008)[8]
Louise (Jennifer Hudson) in Sex and the City (2008), where Carrie Bradshaw's emotional recuperation depends entirely on the labor of her plucky black personal assistant, who is disengaged from the storyline as soon as Carrie starts to feel better.[25]
2010s[edit]
Brother Sam (Mos Def/Yasiin Bey), a character who appears in five episodes of the sixth season of Dexter (2011)[26]
The janitor (Jordan Peele) and the copier repair man (Keegan-Michael Key) in a "magic negro" skit on Key & Peele (2012)[27]
​

 List of Magical Negro occurrences in fiction

I have already addressed many of those as being improperly categorized as a "magic negro".

There is a historical line that can be drawn shows the magical negro time and time again being used as a way to placate white fear, justifiy white compliance with the status quo, and as a role model to African Americans of proper black behavior.

One reason I like The Petrified Forest because it actually plays on that with the black gangster and black chauffeur. But this "magic negro" seems to be growing in scope. Sometimes it is about being relegated to the side. Others, it is based on how super strong the character is, even if they are the star.

Oh, about this list

Bob Newhart in Legally Blonde II
Joe Pesci in With Honors
If Morpheus counts, then so would Frances McDormand in Fargo
Cary Grant in Topper
Aunt Josephine in Anne of Green Gables
Matthew McConaughey in Contact

Of the white actors on this list, how many do you think get offered the helper role in movies the majority of the time? anyone can go slumming for a day, but few people who do actually choose to live there.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

But is it so when white characters are noted in such similar roles?

The white characters in similar roles usually are in someway "othered" in those roles, they are not the norm aka white anglo saxon protestant heterosexual middle class male (or in rare instances female). So they are variations on the magic negro. The do not negate the trope, they borrow from it.

Lynching was a practice used in the Southern United States primarily for the terrorizing of black people. I don't think anyone here would dispute that.

Now that doesn't mean that other people were never lynched in the South. Hence we have the case of  Leo Frank.

And Leo Frank does not disprove that lynching was a practice used in the Southern United States primarily for the terrorizing of black people.

So to say that some white actors played these characters too mean that the magic negro is not a true character in fiction is disingenuous at best.

The Magic Negro as a stock character in the American narrative goes back to the beginnings of our literary traditions. A derivative of James Fenimore Cooper's Noble Savage in the Leather Stocking Tales, we see the negro as transforming agent for the white protagonist in Huckleberry Finn, as soothsayer and magical hunter in Moby Dick, in the long suffering Uncle Tom who shows others the way to Jesus in Uncle Tom's Cabin. These characters are the agents of change but can never change themselves. they possess great power, but are never allowed to wield it for there own advantage.

This character moved through the pulp western dime store novels and staged melodramas that gave rise to the popular myth of the old west and then made its way into the new medium of movies.

By 1915 and the film Birth of a Nation the stereotypes of Mammy and Big Sambo were clearly represented and strongly established as stock characters in the American narrative. Mammy and Big Sambo were fiercely loyal to their masters and even though they possessed great mother wit and physical strength, they would never use those attributes for betterment of themselves and their kin, but only toward the betterment of the lives of their white owners and later employers.

Until after WWII, these characterizations of black life were dominant in the narrative of cinema. With the ending of the war, Hollywood began, ever so cautiously, to explore more three dimensional portrayal of black characters and black life, the 1950's culmination ofwhich was Carmen Jones. But the old ideas still rang true more most white Americans and they show that belief by making TV shows like Beulah and The Jack Benny Show(with its portrayal of Rodchester), top rated hits.

Sidney Poitier made his bones playing the super negro. Starting with No Way Out and culminating in In the Heat Of the Night and Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, the nobility of Poitier becomes almost another character in the films. His character becomes so good at saving white folk and making them better than they were, he does it wholesale in To Sir with Love, where now he works his magic on entire classrooms of white youth. Usually desexualized and always perfect in decorum, white America ate Poitier up. He was the Huxtable of his time. "If only more black folk could be like him."

In the seventies come blaxploitation movies and at least black people get to have sex and shoot back when lynching party comes a knocking. But even then you still have the major films of the time, when black actors are cast, portraying the black characters as helpers to the white protagonist. Television does better, thanks in no small part to Normal Lear, in showing more fleshed out black characters and even affording black actors starring roles.

With the eighties and The Cosby Show, many people thought that the one note magic negro was put to bed, or at least was putting on his pajamas, but alas no.

None of this is in doubt. I do not disagree with any of it, though to consider Poitier a "Magic Negro" in The Heat of the Night is a bit flawed, as his character wasn't entirely on the up and up as he initially tried to implicate Endicott with the murder. He almost was killed too by a group of hillbillies, but because of the intervention of the white sheriff, he survived, which actually makes him the magic guy, not Poitier. Poitier not only starred in the film, he was the expert police officer. The Sheriff was the one batting over his average.

Who changes in the story? Gillespie or Tibbs? You can argue both, but then you must say how and by how much? Tibbs is not surprised by the whites he encounters in the south, but Gillespie and the rest of Sparta are more than a little unnerved by the Tibbs. And Tibbs may change his opinion of Gillespie, but Gillespie is left with his whole perspective about black people changed. This is essential given the time and place of the movie, a desegregating South.

Over the last three decade, the magic negro has resurged and is just a seductive as ever.

Oda Mae Brown (Whoopi Goldberg) in Ghost (1990)[6]
Azeem (Morgan Freeman) in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (1991)[7]
Benjamin Buford "Bubba" Blue (Mykelti Williamson) in Forrest Gump (1994)[4][8]
Moses (Bill Cobbs) in The Hudsucker Proxy (1994)[9]
Ellis Boyd "Red" Redding (Morgan Freeman) in The Shawshank Redemption (1994)[10]
Chubbs (Carl Weathers) in Happy Gilmore (1996)[11]
Kazaam (Shaquille O'Neal) in Kazaam (1996)[12]
Lamont (Guy Torry) in the film American History X (1998)[13]
Rastaman (Amiri Baraka) in Bulworth (1998)[14]
G (Eddie Murphy) in Holy Man (1998)[11]
Rufus (Chris Rock) in Dogma (1999)[4]
John Coffey (Michael Clarke Duncan) in The Green Mile (1999)[15]
Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne) and the Oracle (Gloria Foster / Mary Alice) in The Matrix (1999) and its sequels[11][16]
2000s[edit]
Elliot's cellmate/God (Gabriel Casseus) in Bedazzled (2000)[17]
Cash (Don Cheadle) in The Family Man (2000)[2][16][18][18]
The mortician William Bludworth (Tony Todd) in Final Destination (2000), Final Destination 2 (2003) and Final Destination 5 (2011)[19]
Bagger Vance (Will Smith) in The Legend of Bagger Vance (2000)[1][2][4][16][18]
"The Blind Seer" (Lee Weaver) in O Brother, Where Art Thou? (2000)[17]
Jezelle Gay Hartman (Patricia Belcher), a clairvoyant who sacrifices herself to warn and protect two young, white, twentysomething siblings in Jeepers Creepers (2001)[20]
The Wise Janitor (Mr. T) in Not Another Teen Movie (2001) directly parodies the concept[19]
Abou Fatma (Djimon Hounsou) in The Four Feathers (2002)[21]
Mateo (Djimon Hounsou) in In America (2002)[4]
Gabriel (Delroy Lindo) in The Simpsons episode "Brawl in the Family" (2002)[19] which spoofs the trope, Homer first believing him to be an angel
God (Morgan Freeman) in the films Bruce Almighty (2003) and Evan Almighty (2007)[4][22]
Alex "Hitch" Hitchens (Will Smith) in Hitch (2004)[4]
Sam (Morgan Freeman) in Unleashed (2005)[4]
Charles (Afemo Omilami) in Hounddog (2007)[23]
Solo (Souléymane Sy Savané) in Goodbye Solo (2008), in which a chance meeting motivates a pure-hearted Senagalese immigrant to guide a bitter white man through his late-life emotional baggage.[24]
August (Queen Latifah), May (Sophie Okonedo) and June (Alicia Keys) in The Secret Life of Bees (2008)[8]
Louise (Jennifer Hudson) in Sex and the City (2008), where Carrie Bradshaw's emotional recuperation depends entirely on the labor of her plucky black personal assistant, who is disengaged from the storyline as soon as Carrie starts to feel better.[25]
2010s[edit]
Brother Sam (Mos Def/Yasiin Bey), a character who appears in five episodes of the sixth season of Dexter (2011)[26]
The janitor (Jordan Peele) and the copier repair man (Keegan-Michael Key) in a "magic negro" skit on Key & Peele (2012)[27]
​

 List of Magical Negro occurrences in fiction

I have already addressed many of those as being improperly categorized as a "magic negro".

There is a historical line that can be drawn shows the magical negro time and time again being used as a way to placate white fear, justifiy white compliance with the status quo, and as a role model to African Americans of proper black behavior.

One reason I like The Petrified Forest because it actually plays on that with the black gangster and black chauffeur. But this "magic negro" seems to be growing in scope. Sometimes it is about being relegated to the side. Others, it is based on how super strong the character is, even if they are the star.

Oh, about this list

Bob Newhart in Legally Blonde II
Joe Pesci in With Honors
If Morpheus counts, then so would Frances McDormand in Fargo
Cary Grant in Topper
Aunt Josephine in Anne of Green Gables
Matthew McConaughey in Contact

Of the white actors on this list, how many do you think get offered the helper role in movies the majority of the time? anyone can go slumming for a day, but few people who do actually choose to live there.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

But William Macy in a supporting role does not mean that all white actors to follow him will be relegated to supporting roles, or the audiences will expect all white actors to be relegated to supporting roles, nor is there a racialized history at play that triggers certain expectations of Macy in all his supporting roles. Macy in a supporting role is not by necessity made exotic or mystical. He is still normal.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Who changes in the story? Gillespie or Tibbs? You can argue both, but then you must say how and by how much? Tibbs is not surprised by the whites he encounters in the south, but Gillespie and the rest of Sparta are more than a little unnerved by the Tibbs. And Tibbs may change his opinion of Gillespie, but Gillespie is left with his whole perspective about black people changed. This is essential given the time and place of the movie, a desegregating South.

Tibbs has the same sort of retrospective, if not about whites, about himself. He admits as much with regards to Endicott. Both of them are bettered from the events that take place.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

But William Macy in a supporting role does not mean that all white actors to follow him will be relegated to supporting roles, or the audiences will expect all white actors to be relegated to supporting roles, nor is there a racialized history at play that triggers certain expectations of Macy in all his supporting roles. Macy in a supporting role is not by necessity made exotic or mystical. He is still normal.

I noticed the list of "magical negroes" above includes a handful of films made in the last 15 years. Are blacks truly relegated from starring in films? I mean ignoring Foxx, Freeman, Washington, Berry, Jackson, Smith, Whitaker, Snipes, etc...

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Tibbs has the same sort of retrospective, if not about whites, about himself. He admits as much with regards to Endicott. Both of them are bettered from the events that take place.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

But William Macy in a supporting role does not mean that all white actors to follow him will be relegated to supporting roles, or the audiences will expect all white actors to be relegated to supporting roles, nor is there a racialized history at play that triggers certain expectations of Macy in all his supporting roles. Macy in a supporting role is not by necessity made exotic or mystical. He is still normal.

I noticed the list of "magical negroes" above includes a handful of films made in the last 15 years. Are blacks truly relegated from starring in films? I mean ignoring Foxx, Freeman, Washington, Berry, Jackson, Smith, Whitaker, Snipes, etc...

Let me ask you this

In what year did all the actors you just named have leading roles in movies all their own?

And how many mainstream movies can you name from last year that featured Minority leads of any kind, and/or majority Minority casts?

Then you will have your answer.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Tibbs has the same sort of retrospective, if not about whites, about himself. He admits as much with regards to Endicott. Both of them are bettered from the events that take place.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

But William Macy in a supporting role does not mean that all white actors to follow him will be relegated to supporting roles, or the audiences will expect all white actors to be relegated to supporting roles, nor is there a racialized history at play that triggers certain expectations of Macy in all his supporting roles. Macy in a supporting role is not by necessity made exotic or mystical. He is still normal.

I noticed the list of "magical negroes" above includes a handful of films made in the last 15 years. Are blacks truly relegated from starring in films? I mean ignoring Foxx, Freeman, Washington, Berry, Jackson, Smith, Whitaker, Snipes, etc...

Let me ask you this

In what year did all the actors you just named have leading roles in movies all their own?

And how many mainstream movies can you name from last year that featured Minority leads of any kind, and/or majority Minority casts?

Then you will have your answer.

Isn't this addressing a different issue, the lack of diversity, especially amongst black women in Hollywood? Looking at the top 30 grossing films in 2013, virtually none have a leading black actor. In fact, many of them probably didn't have much in any black actors. Same goes true for 2012. Hollywood, ironically lacks diversity, despite allegedly trying to push it. That isn't a secret.

My problem, and only problem is the consideration that so many allegedly black characters are "magic negroes", when many of such characters have plenty of white counterparts in other films.

 

[untermensche]

Tibbs has the same sort of retrospective, if not about whites, about himself. He admits as much with regards to Endicott. Both of them are bettered from the events that take place.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

But William Macy in a supporting role does not mean that all white actors to follow him will be relegated to supporting roles, or the audiences will expect all white actors to be relegated to supporting roles, nor is there a racialized history at play that triggers certain expectations of Macy in all his supporting roles. Macy in a supporting role is not by necessity made exotic or mystical. He is still normal.

I noticed the list of "magical negroes" above includes a handful of films made in the last 15 years. Are blacks truly relegated from starring in films? I mean ignoring Foxx, Freeman, Washington, Berry, Jackson, Smith, Whitaker, Snipes, etc...

Let me ask you this

In what year did all the actors you just named have leading roles in movies all their own?

And how many mainstream movies can you name from last year that featured Minority leads of any kind, and/or majority Minority casts?

Then you will have your answer.

A really important movie that had a black as the lead character was '12 years a Slave'.

This is a movie that will outlive 99% of the other movies made today, which are made to be consumed and then thrown away forever with no lasting message beyond a desire to buy the tie-in products.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

And please keep in mind, the lack of latino and asian movie leads and majority cast membership.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Tibbs has the same sort of retrospective, if not about whites, about himself. He admits as much with regards to Endicott. Both of them are bettered from the events that take place.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

But William Macy in a supporting role does not mean that all white actors to follow him will be relegated to supporting roles, or the audiences will expect all white actors to be relegated to supporting roles, nor is there a racialized history at play that triggers certain expectations of Macy in all his supporting roles. Macy in a supporting role is not by necessity made exotic or mystical. He is still normal.

I noticed the list of "magical negroes" above includes a handful of films made in the last 15 years. Are blacks truly relegated from starring in films? I mean ignoring Foxx, Freeman, Washington, Berry, Jackson, Smith, Whitaker, Snipes, etc...

Let me ask you this

In what year did all the actors you just named have leading roles in movies all their own?

And how many mainstream movies can you name from last year that featured Minority leads of any kind, and/or majority Minority casts?

Then you will have your answer.

Isn't this addressing a different issue, the lack of diversity, especially amongst black women in Hollywood? Looking at the top 30 grossing films in 2013, virtually none have a leading black actor. In fact, many of them probably didn't have much in any black actors. Same goes true for 2012. Hollywood, ironically lacks diversity, despite allegedly trying to push it. That isn't a secret.

My problem, and only problem is the consideration that so many allegedly black characters are "magic negroes", when many of such characters have plenty of white counterparts in other films.

It is an issue that has its roots in the stereotyping of black actors. If you are limited to certain roles, that automatically limits how often you are seen. Now if you can successfully fight those limits, then you can get roles that are supposed to be for everybody.

The white helper characters do not come out of the same narrative and the black helper characters do. Nor does the whiteness of the character define that character in anyway. The magic negro however is always defined within his race first. The narrative demands it. The same is true of Latina Spitfire, the Confucian Asian. The Whore with the heart of Gold is Always FEMALE. That is how stereotypes work.

 

[untermensche]

And please keep in mind, the lack of latino and asian movie leads and majority cast membership.

Today there are countless small movie makers who make all kinds of movies.

What, you're talking about is movies made by major studios that spend a lot of money.

This is an exclusive club. Very few can enter it.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

And please keep in mind, the lack of latino and asian movie leads and majority cast membership.

Today there are countless small movie makers who make all kinds of movies.

What, you're talking about is movies made by major studios that spend a lot of money.

This is an exclusive club. Very few can enter it.

Oh I have tried to make it clear that I am talking about mainstream Hollywood fare.

 

[Emily Lake]

This seems to speak more to your own expectations and stereotypes. It comes across as "Oh my, dear! There's a black man in our white movie!"

So you're saying that like Jimmy, you also don't understand why, when a black guy is surrounded by white people, people would be more liable to notice his race than if he was a white person surrounded by white people? How about a Japanese guy wearing a blue shirt surrounded by Japanese guys wearing red shirts? Do you understand why people would be more likely to notice and remark upon the color of his shirt than if he was surrounded by Japanese guys wearing the same color shirt as him? It's the same reason in both cases.

This seems to indicate that your belief is that it's NOT indicative of any particular negative stereotype or trope, but is simply a function of standing out from the crowd?

 

[Underseer]

Tibbs has the same sort of retrospective, if not about whites, about himself. He admits as much with regards to Endicott. Both of them are bettered from the events that take place.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

But William Macy in a supporting role does not mean that all white actors to follow him will be relegated to supporting roles, or the audiences will expect all white actors to be relegated to supporting roles, nor is there a racialized history at play that triggers certain expectations of Macy in all his supporting roles. Macy in a supporting role is not by necessity made exotic or mystical. He is still normal.

I noticed the list of "magical negroes" above includes a handful of films made in the last 15 years. Are blacks truly relegated from starring in films? I mean ignoring Foxx, Freeman, Washington, Berry, Jackson, Smith, Whitaker, Snipes, etc...

Let me ask you this

In what year did all the actors you just named have leading roles in movies all their own?

And how many mainstream movies can you name from last year that featured Minority leads of any kind, and/or majority Minority casts?

Then you will have your answer.

A really important movie that had a black as the lead character was '12 years a Slave'.

This is a movie that will outlive 99% of the other movies made today, which are made to be consumed and then thrown away forever with no lasting message beyond a desire to buy the tie-in products.

While it is a good thing that there are exceptions, do you really think all those talented black actors want to be in Tyler Perry movies?

While it is hard to find decent roles for any actor, unfortunately the well is much drier for non-white actors.

 

[Horatio Parker]

I would submit Robert De Niro in Cape Fear as a magical white man. The cowboy in the Big Lebowski seems a bit magical, though he never does anything supernatural, he appears to have insights into the Dude's problems without knowing him.

These are stereotyped characters and besides having their own traditions, it's an easy way to diversify, or appear to diversify, a cast.

I think these characters come from a perception of an earlier, more primitive time when people were thought to possess understandings that are lost to the modern era. Here and there some of the primitive yet profound and magical traditions live on.

When they're villians, they usually represent the dark side of the protagonist. In Cape Fear, Robert De Niro represents the repressed desire Nick Nolte has for Ileana Douglas. He has to destroy that evil to protect his family. In the Big Lebowski, the cowboy is more like God or a benevolent wise spirit.

 

[Emily Lake]

And is that a problem for you as well?

Undeveloped and underdeveloped characters, hacknyed tropes, plot devices instead of plot, and a narrative that stereotypes white folks as little more than parasites should be a problem for everyone, donchathink?

Not every character needs to have a complete back story and full development. Some are just passing through. And some characters serve as MacGuffins - they are a necessary thing to move the story along, but aren't actually central. I can certainly see an argument that if poorly used, plot devices are lazy and make for poor story telling. But they're not exactly crimes against humanity, and they're not inherently awful and bad.

Plot devices are just that: devices. Sometimes they're props, sometimes they're characters.

In this case, it seems that you object to black people being used as plot devices. I want to find out whether you object to people of other ethnicities being used as plot devices as well.

 

[ksen]

How in the hell did this thread devolve into talking about the roles black people get in movies?

The linked article didn't mention that at all . . . well other than having a pic of the magical Will Smith next to it.

The studies conducted have shown that whites are more likely to associate black people with words like ghost, paranormal and spirit. Which in turn may help explain differences in pain treatment for blacks vs whites and how black juveniles are considered more adult when "judging culpability."

 

[untermensche]

While it is a good thing that there are exceptions, do you really think all those talented black actors want to be in Tyler Perry movies?

While it is hard to find decent roles for any actor, unfortunately the well is much drier for non-white actors.

Being in those Tyler Perry movies gives them exposure, experience, connections, and a resume.

Damn right they want those parts.

But they don't want only those parts.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Tibbs has the same sort of retrospective, if not about whites, about himself. He admits as much with regards to Endicott. Both of them are bettered from the events that take place.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

But William Macy in a supporting role does not mean that all white actors to follow him will be relegated to supporting roles, or the audiences will expect all white actors to be relegated to supporting roles, nor is there a racialized history at play that triggers certain expectations of Macy in all his supporting roles. Macy in a supporting role is not by necessity made exotic or mystical. He is still normal.

I noticed the list of "magical negroes" above includes a handful of films made in the last 15 years. Are blacks truly relegated from starring in films? I mean ignoring Foxx, Freeman, Washington, Berry, Jackson, Smith, Whitaker, Snipes, etc...

Let me ask you this

In what year did all the actors you just named have leading roles in movies all their own?

And how many mainstream movies can you name from last year that featured Minority leads of any kind, and/or majority Minority casts?

Then you will have your answer.

Isn't this addressing a different issue, the lack of diversity, especially amongst black women in Hollywood? Looking at the top 30 grossing films in 2013, virtually none have a leading black actor. In fact, many of them probably didn't have much in any black actors. Same goes true for 2012. Hollywood, ironically lacks diversity, despite allegedly trying to push it. That isn't a secret.

My problem, and only problem is the consideration that so many allegedly black characters are "magic negroes", when many of such characters have plenty of white counterparts in other films.

It is an issue that has its roots in the stereotyping of black actors. If you are limited to certain roles, that automatically limits how often you are seen. Now if you can successfully fight those limits, then you can get roles that are supposed to be for everybody.

But how is this related to the "magic negro"? The diversity issue goes much much deeper than this. Forget about lead roles. What about support roles for several blacks in a film? It seems in Hollywood you can either have a black star in a film with a lot of white people or a white person star in a film with a lot of white people. Unless the film is about Africa or *insert civil rights feel good film here*. Heck even in A Time to Kill, most of the characters are white. The only time there is a film with lots of blacks is either an Ice Cube "comedy" (low grossing) or a soulful film about black women (terribly low grossing). Teen thrillers like The Hunger Games or its one hundred clones are usually dominated by whites, and rarely ever has a major black character. I'm pondering the scene in Into the Darkness, with all the Captains and Firsts together. Were there any blacks in that room? Regarding Sex and the City, Jennifer Hudson was in more scenes, but they and other scenes had to be cut out because test runs of the film length were sending viewers into comas.

Odd as it seems, Hollywood is segregated, at least on film. I'd think this issue is the problem, not the "magic negro" of whom I thinks presence is exaggerated. It seems if blacks were dominated with the "magic negro" role, they'd at least be in every film.

There are limited roles for blacks because that is how films are unfortunately scripted. And if a study was performed, we'd probably see that Americans would be less interested in a film about about black people. Hence the high grossing films have a certain formula.

The white helper characters do not come out of the same narrative and the black helper characters do. Nor does the whiteness of the character define that character in anyway. The magic negro however is always defined within his race first. The narrative demands it.

Can you explain how Red's or Bubba's or Morpheus's (this ignores the Happy Gilmore garbage or Shazzam) race comes into play at all in their films? Rufus in Dogma is a gag, a black disciple. That isn't a "magic negro", it is a joke. American History X was a necessary plot development.

 

[ksen]

I give up.

Ok, in my opinion the most magical black lady is Zoe Saldana. <3

 

[KeepTalking]

Tibbs has the same sort of retrospective, if not about whites, about himself. He admits as much with regards to Endicott. Both of them are bettered from the events that take place.

Of the list you gave above, include some of the more notable black actors in Hollywood, who have starred in a buttload of films. Saying that Lawrence Fishburne is relegated to support roles would be ignoring how actors like William H Macy and Chris Cooper generally are relegated to supporting roles.

But William Macy in a supporting role does not mean that all white actors to follow him will be relegated to supporting roles, or the audiences will expect all white actors to be relegated to supporting roles, nor is there a racialized history at play that triggers certain expectations of Macy in all his supporting roles. Macy in a supporting role is not by necessity made exotic or mystical. He is still normal.

I noticed the list of "magical negroes" above includes a handful of films made in the last 15 years. Are blacks truly relegated from starring in films? I mean ignoring Foxx, Freeman, Washington, Berry, Jackson, Smith, Whitaker, Snipes, etc...

Let me ask you this

In what year did all the actors you just named have leading roles in movies all their own?

I just took a look at the top 3 from the list on IMDB, and found the following leading roles:
Jamie Foxx
Django Unchained 2012
Law Abiding Citizen 2009
Miami Vice 2006
Ray 2004
Bait 2000

Morgan Freeman
Invictus 2009
Dreamcatcher 2003
Along Came a Spider 2001
Hard Rain 1998
Kiss the Girls 1997
Driving Miss Daisy 1989

The real standout was Denzel Washington:
The Equalizer 2014
2 Guns 2013
Flight 2012
Safe House 2012
Unstoppable 2010
The Book of Eli 2010
The Taking of Pelham 123 2009
American Gangster 2007
Deja Vu 2006
Inside Man 2006
The Manchurian Candidate 2004
Man on Fire 2004
out of Time 2003
Antwone Fisher 2002
John Q 2002
Training Day 2001
Remember the Titatns 2000
The Siege 1998
He Got Game 1998
Fallen 1998
The Preacher's Wife 1996
Courage Under Fire 1996
Virtuosity 1995
Crimson Tide 1995
Malcolm X 1992
Ricochet 1991
Mississippi Masala 1991
Mo' Better Blues 1990
For Queen & Country 1988
Cry Freedom 1987

Another thing that stood out for me when looking at IMDB was the amount of films in which Morgan Freeman gets billed as one of the top actors, regardless of the role he plays in the movie. His name apparently has pretty big drawing power at the box office, even though he is seldom the leading man. The following films are just the films in which he gets billed as one of the top 2 actors, open this up to top 3, or "his name is on the movie poster", and you would have to include just about his entire resume:
Lucy 2014
The Bucket List 2007
Evan Almighty 2007
The Contract 2006
Bruce Almighty 2003
Sum of All Fears 2002
High Crimes 2002
Under Suspicion 2000
Chain Reaction 1996
Seven 1995
Shawshank Redemption 1994
Robin Hood 1991

And how many mainstream movies can you name from last year that featured Minority leads of any kind, and/or majority Minority casts?

If you mean within the last year, there are two films with Denzel as the lead alone: The Equalizer, and 2 Guns.