Why are illegal migrants being brought to Italy?

[Derec]

In effect, these "rescues" are aiding and abetting smugglers and making their jobs easier - their flimsy vessels do not have to reach Italy, just float long enough for migrants to be 'rescued'. These ships should drop the illegal migrants (aka invaders) they rescue on Lybian shores, not give them a free ride to Europe.
Migrant crisis: Scores missing after boat sinks off Libya

The dinghy was found taking on water in rough seas after the Italian coast guard received a satellite phone call.
It diverted the merchant ship to rescue survivors, who were brought to Italy.[..]
Around 27,000 refugees and other migrants have reached Italy by boat so far this year, most of them setting out from Libya.

 

[fromderinside]

In effect, these "rescues" are aiding and abetting smugglers and making their jobs easier - their flimsy vessels do not have to reach Italy, just float long enough for migrants to be 'rescued'. These ships should drop the illegal migrants (aka invaders) they rescue on Lybian shores, not give them a free ride to Europe.
Migrant crisis: Scores missing after boat sinks off Libya

The dinghy was found taking on water in rough seas after the Italian coast guard received a satellite phone call.
It diverted the merchant ship to rescue survivors, who were brought to Italy.[..]
Around 27,000 refugees and other migrants have reached Italy by boat so far this year, most of them setting out from Libya.

Some think, thought, Libya and Italy are one.

 

[untermensche]

They are not "illegal" anything.

They are living human beings with the same rights as all people.

The US Constitution says "We the people....", not "We the citizens.".

The idea that non-citizens are "illegal" people is a disgrace to any sense of human justice. They may not have full rights but they have all human rights.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They are not "illegal" anything.

They are living human beings with the same rights as all people.

The US Constitution says "We the people....", not "We the citizens.".

The idea that non-citizens are "illegal" people is a disgrace to any sense of human justice. They may not have full rights but they have all human rights.

Human rights don't give them permission to be in a country that didn't allow them in, though.

 

[Bronzeage]

They are not "illegal" anything.

They are living human beings with the same rights as all people.

The US Constitution says "We the people....", not "We the citizens.".

The idea that non-citizens are "illegal" people is a disgrace to any sense of human justice. They may not have full rights but they have all human rights.

Human rights don't give them permission to be in a country that didn't allow them in, though.

Italy is a very old place, as civilization goes. They probably remember when human compassion was extended to the victims of shipwrecks, without regard to why they happened to be on that boat.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Good thing the United States never took in such brown skinned "illegals".

 

[Derec]

Italy is a very old place, as civilization goes. They probably remember when human compassion was extended to the victims of shipwrecks, without regard to why they happened to be on that boat.

I don't think the ancients extended much compassion on invaders that shipwrecked though.
To bring it back to today, rescuing them is fine, but bringing them into Europe is just making the smuggling easier. Which will just embolden more people to try to cross themselves. It is a vicious circle (kind of like Merkel's blanket invitation in 2015) and is putting more people at risk of drowning to boot. If they are sent back immediately the illegal migrants would face the prospect of risking drowning for nothing and far fewer would attempt the journey.

- - - Updated - - -

Good thing the United States never took in such brown skinned "illegals"

As generous as the policy toward fleeing Cubans was, even the US did not take Cubans who were caught with their feet wet.

 

[Derec]

They are not "illegal" anything.

They are illegal migrants. They migrate illegally. It's not calling them illegal in respect to their humanity, but to their migration.

They are living human beings with the same rights as all people.

Being illegals does not deprive them of human rights. However, nobody has the right to enter countries illegally.

The US Constitution says "We the people....", not "We the citizens.".

Actually the "We the people" refers to who establishes the constitution in question, not to whom human rights apply.
Full passage:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Nice bit of quoting out of context though. Especially since US constitution does not apply in Italy.

The idea that non-citizens are "illegal" people is a disgrace to any sense of human justice. They may not have full rights but they have all human rights.

Illegals are a subset of non-citizens. If you enter a country you are not a citizen of legally you are not an illegal migrant.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Good thing the United States never took in such brown skinned "illegals"

As generous as the policy toward fleeing Cubans was, even the US did not take Cubans who were caught with their feet wet.

But we did not let them sink and die if we could save them as you seem to be advocating:

In effect, these "rescues" are aiding and abetting smugglers and making their jobs easier - their flimsy vessels do not have to reach Italy, just float long enough for migrants to be 'rescued'.

 

[laughing dog]

I believe the reason Italy brings these refugees/migrants to Italy is that their previous policy of sending them back resulted in some drowning tragedies.

These people cannot possibly be illegal migrants. They are being brought into Italy by the government - which makes them legal migrants until otherwise determined.

 

[SimpleDon]

In effect, these "rescues" are aiding and abetting smugglers and making their jobs easier - their flimsy vessels do not have to reach Italy, just float long enough for migrants to be 'rescued'. These ships should drop the illegal migrants (aka invaders) they rescue on Lybian shores, not give them a free ride to Europe.
Migrant crisis: Scores missing after boat sinks off Libya

The dinghy was found taking on water in rough seas after the Italian coast guard received a satellite phone call.
It diverted the merchant ship to rescue survivors, who were brought to Italy.[..]
Around 27,000 refugees and other migrants have reached Italy by boat so far this year, most of them setting out from Libya.

Your argument seems to depend almost entirely on on adolescent name calling. On calling refugees "invaders," "smugglers," "illegals," etc.

Let's just consider your favorite pejorative "illegals." Your knowledge of Italian law, assumed by your use of this tag, must be greater than mine. How do you know that it is illegal to enter Italy without proper immigration clearances? Or more to the point of the offered article, how do you know that it is illegal in Italy for people to be in a boat on the high seas? This is highly improbable.

It is not even certain that it is illegal in Italy to enter the country without going through proper immigration clearances. In the US, for example, it wasn't against the law until 1964. And then it was made only a federal class 3 misdemeanor, a lesser crime than speeding or depositing household trash in a federal government trash container.

Rather than arresting the violators of this law, they would be issued a ticket and told to either pay the fine or to appear before a magistrate on a certain date. The US and I would believe most countries prefer to exercise the administrative alternative of deportation and to not charge the offenders under the law. They are no more an illegal or a criminal than the person who goes one mile an hour over the speed limit or who makes a turn without signaling.

 

[RavenSky]

They are not "illegal" anything.

They are living human beings with the same rights as all people.

The US Constitution says "We the people....", not "We the citizens.".

The idea that non-citizens are "illegal" people is a disgrace to any sense of human justice. They may not have full rights but they have all human rights.

Human rights don't give them permission to be in a country that didn't allow them in, though.

If Italian rescue crew brought them into Italy, then they are in a country that allowed them in.

- - - Updated - - -

Good thing the United States never took in such brown skinned "illegals".

Oh don't worry. I'm sure Derec wants to dump Cubans and other brown people back in the ocean, too.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

They are not "illegal" anything.

They are living human beings with the same rights as all people.

The US Constitution says "We the people....", not "We the citizens.".

The idea that non-citizens are "illegal" people is a disgrace to any sense of human justice. They may not have full rights but they have all human rights.

Human rights don't give them permission to be in a country that didn't allow them in, though.

So, let's just let them die. Who cares if they need food or water or shelter. That seems to be your solution.

 

[Crazy Eddie]

I believe the reason Italy brings these refugees/migrants to Italy is that their previous policy of sending them back resulted in some drowning tragedies.

These people cannot possibly be illegal migrants. They are being brought into Italy by the government - which makes them legal migrants until otherwise determined.

Actually it makes them refugees, nothing more and nothing less. Calling them "migrants" implies that they are actually emigrating to Italy with the express intention of seeking residence and employment there. But they're not going TOWARDS Italy so much as fleeing FROM somewhere else, and most of them don't really care where they finally end up as long as it's better than where they were.

A migrant can be legal or illegal depending on whether or not he took the legally required steps to seek authorized residence in his new country of origin. These people did not, because they're not seeking residence or employment, only safety from whatever it is they're fleeing from. So they're not migrants, they're refugees. And for the record, there's no such thing as an "illegal refugee."

 

[Bronzeage]

I don't think the ancients extended much compassion on invaders that shipwrecked though.
To bring it back to today, rescuing them is fine, but bringing them into Europe is just making the smuggling easier. Which will just embolden more people to try to cross themselves. It is a vicious circle (kind of like Merkel's blanket invitation in 2015) and is putting more people at risk of drowning to boot. If they are sent back immediately the illegal migrants would face the prospect of risking drowning for nothing and far fewer would attempt the journey.

[

Italy has been invaded many times, so I am sure they can tell the difference.

Sometimes I get the feeling that you just don't like people.

We have a boat load of people headed for Italy to apply for asylum and on the way across the Mediterranean Sea they run into trouble. Italy rescues them and brings them to safety. For some reason, this pisses you off? WTF, bro?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Human rights don't give them permission to be in a country that didn't allow them in, though.

So, let's just let them die. Who cares if they need food or water or shelter. That seems to be your solution.

Tow them back to where they came from.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I believe the reason Italy brings these refugees/migrants to Italy is that their previous policy of sending them back resulted in some drowning tragedies.

These people cannot possibly be illegal migrants. They are being brought into Italy by the government - which makes them legal migrants until otherwise determined.

Actually it makes them refugees, nothing more and nothing less. Calling them "migrants" implies that they are actually emigrating to Italy with the express intention of seeking residence and employment there. But they're not going TOWARDS Italy so much as fleeing FROM somewhere else, and most of them don't really care where they finally end up as long as it's better than where they were.

A migrant can be legal or illegal depending on whether or not he took the legally required steps to seek authorized residence in his new country of origin. These people did not, because they're not seeking residence or employment, only safety from whatever it is they're fleeing from. So they're not migrants, they're refugees. And for the record, there's no such thing as an "illegal refugee."

Most are trying to move to the EU for a better life--migrants.

 

[Derec]

Italy has been invaded many times, so I am sure they can tell the difference.

Invasion tactics change over time.

Sometimes I get the feeling that you just don't like people.

Wrong. But there is a difference between people as individuals and mass migrations which never turn out well for the country/region migrated into en masse.

We have a boat load of people headed for Italy to apply for asylum and on the way across the Mediterranean Sea they run into trouble. Italy rescues them and brings them to safety.

It's not one boatload, it's many many boatloads, with millions of migrants and tens of millions more behind them seeking to do the same. If you help the migrants reach Europe you are only encouraging more to do the same. It's not a terribly difficult concept to grasp.

For some reason, this pisses you off? WTF, bro?

Because these migrants (mostly economic migrants) are streaming into Europe by millions. No society can withstand that and if Europe does not wake up it will not survive.

 

[Derec]

Actually it makes them refugees, nothing more and nothing less.

Very few of the African migrants are actual refugees. Most are economic migrants.

Calling them "migrants" implies that they are actually emigrating to Italy with the express intention of seeking residence and employment there.

They probably want to continue on to Germany, like those on the Aegean/Greece route.

But they're not going TOWARDS Italy so much as fleeing FROM somewhere else, and most of them don't really care where they finally end up as long as it's better than where they were.

The Idomeni migrants who insist on going to Germany show that this is not the case. They were not in a warzone as soon as they reached Turkey. Yet they demand to be allowed to go to Germany. That is something one expects from an economic migrant, not a refugee.

A migrant can be legal or illegal depending on whether or not he took the legally required steps to seek authorized residence in his new country of origin. These people did not, because they're not seeking residence or employment, only safety from whatever it is they're fleeing from. So they're not migrants, they're refugees. And for the record, there's no such thing as an "illegal refugee."

Refugees are a subset of migrants. But vast majority of these people are not refugees. Besides, even if they were legit refugees, Europe cannot reasonably accommodate tens of millions of them.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Invasion tactics change over time.

That's right. If you want to invade a country, fuck your own country over and send over people who are desperate to leave and have no resources except smuggled drugs and ivory. Then have them take over the new country.

Brilliant!