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Why people are afraid of universal health care

Murder Is an Awful Answer for Health-Care Anger​

Online endorsement of the killing of a slain insurance CEO is evidence of a terrible coarsening in society.


We know you've seen loved ones die, been denied meds that will prevent your own slow slide into an early grave, watched your kid walk around on crutches for 4 months before funding for the operation and hours paperwork could be processed, denied, and then reprocessed before being begrudgingly approved*, and that you've paid tens of thousands of dollars for those life affirming experiences.

But come on ya'll! America's the greatest country on earth and you should be glad for the privilege of paying lots of money to suffer.



*Another true story about my youngest.
 
Heard today the rejection of claims by the average health insurance company today is 16%. Universal Healthcare's rejection rate is 32%/.
 
Consequently, meaningful reforms are unlikely to occur anytime soon in the land of the free and home of the brave. At least until enough Americans are fed up with being stupid.
Fed Up? Such naivete.' Americans are never going to be fed up with their stupidity. Cue the latest math scores. Millions of americans are comfortably stupid. Lots of adult bodies with child brains.
 
Consequently, meaningful reforms are unlikely to occur anytime soon in the land of the free and home of the brave. At least until enough Americans are fed up with being stupid.
Fed Up? Such naivete.' Americans are never going to be fed up with their stupidity. Cue the latest math scores. Millions of americans are comfortably stupid. Lots of adult bodies with child brains.
‘Fraid you’re right. Too much comfort. Excessive comfort breeds physical and mental laziness, to both of which Americans have become accustomed.

Any recent crowd photo can be compared to photos from 75 years ago, and the physical aspect is starkly visible. The mental counterpart, usually less visible, was on vivid display in this last election.

Fat, ignorant and easily controlled - we are ripe for the picking by any enterprising cabal of billionaires.
 
It is dangerous that so many people on social media are using this murder as an occasion to air their concerns about the American healthcare system. A man was murdered in cold blood in what was probably a professional hit, and the response in left leaning spaces has mostly been muted. A large proportion of the comments I see are along the lines of "murder is bad, but maybe healthcare will be less expensive for poor people now," etc.

To me this isn't something to politicize or talk out of both sides of my mouth about. "Murder is bad" is not a liberal or conservative idea, it's a human idea. This is completely out of bounds for a civilized society.
People are murdered everyday. This person had no more value than the next. Most often the murder had some grudge against the victim as only 10-12% of murders are random. This one had messages scrawled on the bullet casings.
My personal theory is that this murder was NOT a reaction to any health care decision, etc. but personal, with the messages on bullets chosen to misdirect investigations.
 
It’s true that a disproportionate share of health care costs is driven by a small percentage of the population. However, as you pointed out, most of us are already contributing to these costs through employer-sponsored insurance or other mechanisms. Universal health care simply formalizes and equalizes this process, ensuring that everyone contributes fairly and benefits when they need it. It removes the hidden costs and inefficiencies that exist in the current system, such as emergency room care for the uninsured, which we all ultimately pay for.

You suggest that the ability to opt out of current systems preserves individual choice. While this may seem ideal in theory, in practice, it often leads to gaps in coverage and higher costs for everyone as market-driven approaches often exacerbate inequities and inefficiencies.. Universal systems eliminate these disparities, ensuring a baseline of care for all while potentially allowing for supplemental private insurance for those who want more.
Good post, overall. I'm just picking a snippet to keep the nested quote size down.

I didn't mention opting out to imply that it's a good thing or that individual choice is always the right approach. In the case of health care, I don't actually think it's a good thing... for a large variety of reasons.

That said... universal care isn't my favored approach - but not for the reasons that most people would put forth.

The US has some different existing dynamics that other countries don't have. We have a deeply entrenched fully private and profit-driven delivery system. We ended up with employer sponsored health insurance endemic in our society over a relatively short span of time - where other countries moved to UHC instead. We have a gordian knot in the US and we can't just cut it in half and be done with it, because there are a lot of negative consequences of that.

My preferred approach for the US specifically is to actually start with the delivery system and just nationalize that sucker. All doctors, nurses, clinicians, therapists, etc. would be salaried government employees (complete with federal benefits). Medical training would be government funded based on aptitude and ability to complete the coursework satisfactorily. Facilities would be government owned - and distributed in a way that allows access in less urban areas instead of the current health care deserts that we're dealing with. Drugs pricing would be negotiated federally.

We can talk about Universal Access until we all asphyxiate from lack of air to our brains, but the reality is that the single biggest driver of the disparity in costs between the US and other developed countries is on the delivery side of the equation.
Not all health care systems are for profit. I'll name three of the best known in terms of excellence that exist within the US: Mayo Clinic, Johns Hopkins and Cleveland Clinic. I know that there are others, but these are three names that most people should be familiar with. I am most familiar with Mayo Clinic which pays all physicians a salary: there is no fee for service component of compensation. I know that Mayo Clinic and I assume the other two also do a fair amount of charity work: gratis or very low cost. Now, these are all very well endowed institutions which, sadly enough, is NOT true for most local clinics and hospitals. However, they do present models for how to center health care on patients and not profits and how to provide excellent care.
 
Fed Up? Such naivete.' Americans are never going to be fed up with their stupidity. Cue the latest math scores. Millions of americans are comfortably stupid. Lots of adult bodies with child brains.
My first instinct was to write something contradictory to that statement.

Then I realized if I did I'd sound as dumb as all the empty buckets in this nation you referred to.
 
It is dangerous that so many people on social media are using this murder as an occasion to air their concerns about the American healthcare system. A man was murdered in cold blood in what was probably a professional hit, and the response in left leaning spaces has mostly been muted. A large proportion of the comments I see are along the lines of "murder is bad, but maybe healthcare will be less expensive for poor people now," etc.

To me this isn't something to politicize or talk out of both sides of my mouth about. "Murder is bad" is not a liberal or conservative idea, it's a human idea. This is completely out of bounds for a civilized society.
People are murdered everyday. This person had no more value than the next. Most often the murder had some grudge against the victim as only 10-12% of murders are random. This one had messages scrawled on the bullet casings.
My personal theory is that this murder was NOT a reaction to any health care decision, etc. but personal, with the messages on bullets chosen to misdirect investigations.
It does have a strong reek of a professional hit.
 
It does have a strong reek of a professional hit.
I see just the opposite.
I have no opinion, largely because there's such a range of motivations that aren't mutually exclusive.
Maybe the killer was hired by a guy who lost his wife due to United Healthcare policies and got the money from a rising United Healthcare executive who saw the victim as an impediment to his ambitions. It's a complex world, especially now that people with little in common can meet on social media or something.
Tom
 
FBI offers $50,000 reward for information about gunman who killed UnitedHealthcare’s CEO.
Think there'd be a $50k reward if it were you that got gunned down in the street? You could be lying there with a knife sticking out of your chest and a note pinned to your shirt and all your loved ones would get from the cops is an excuse about "stretched resources".
This monied individual gets his comeuppance and every swinging dick in law enforcement is probably drawing overtime.
 
It does have a strong reek of a professional hit.
I see just the opposite.
Aha! That proves it - a pro job! :p
Seriously - seemed to me to act calm and "normal". Very meticulously planned ... and executed for that matter; he could be chillin' on the beach in Thailand by now. Of course that could change, hopefully.
What was the opposite you saw?
 
It is dangerous that so many people on social media are using this murder as an occasion to air their concerns about the American healthcare system. A man was murdered in cold blood in what was probably a professional hit, and the response in left leaning spaces has mostly been muted. A large proportion of the comments I see are along the lines of "murder is bad, but maybe healthcare will be less expensive for poor people now," etc.

To me this isn't something to politicize or talk out of both sides of my mouth about. "Murder is bad" is not a liberal or conservative idea, it's a human idea. This is completely out of bounds for a civilized society.
People are murdered everyday. This person had no more value than the next. Most often the murder had some grudge against the victim as only 10-12% of murders are random. This one had messages scrawled on the bullet casings.
My personal theory is that this murder was NOT a reaction to any health care decision, etc. but personal, with the messages on bullets chosen to misdirect investigations.
It does have a strong reek of a professional hit.
It has the smell of a hit by an operator of some kind, but it's more just the sort of thing that requires an education and cleverness.

The thing is, someone doesn't need to be a professional for that to occur.

The reality is that anyone who has any desire to not be caught is going to think all the way through all the ways society tracks crimes like this.

Everything from weapons to logistics to movement to keeping a low profile while protecting identity... It was probably planned for a while, of the whole idea was "how do I move in a hood without being sus", for example.

This means either STRONG motive or very high pay.

For this "victim", it could go either way. There are lots of people who stood to make money. There are a lot of people who misdirect their hate for a bad system on a figurehead.
 
It is dangerous that so many people on social media are using this murder as an occasion to air their concerns about the American healthcare system. A man was murdered in cold blood in what was probably a professional hit, and the response in left leaning spaces has mostly been muted. A large proportion of the comments I see are along the lines of "murder is bad, but maybe healthcare will be less expensive for poor people now," etc.

To me this isn't something to politicize or talk out of both sides of my mouth about. "Murder is bad" is not a liberal or conservative idea, it's a human idea. This is completely out of bounds for a civilized society.
People are murdered everyday. This person had no more value than the next. Most often the murder had some grudge against the victim as only 10-12% of murders are random. This one had messages scrawled on the bullet casings.
My personal theory is that this murder was NOT a reaction to any health care decision, etc. but personal, with the messages on bullets chosen to misdirect investigations.
It does have a strong reek of a professional hit.
It has the smell of a hit by an operator of some kind, but it's more just the sort of thing that requires an education and cleverness.

The thing is, someone doesn't need to be a professional for that to occur.

The reality is that anyone who has any desire to not be caught is going to think all the way through all the ways society tracks crimes like this.

Everything from weapons to logistics to movement to keeping a low profile while protecting identity... It was probably planned for a while, of the whole idea was "how do I move in a hood without being sus", for example.

This means either STRONG motive or very high pay.

For this "victim", it could go either way. There are lots of people who stood to make money. There are a lot of people who misdirect their hate for a bad system on a figurehead.
Which I think argues for a more personal motive. But probably I just watch to many thrillers…
 
It is dangerous that so many people on social media are using this murder as an occasion to air their concerns about the American healthcare system. A man was murdered in cold blood in what was probably a professional hit, and the response in left leaning spaces has mostly been muted. A large proportion of the comments I see are along the lines of "murder is bad, but maybe healthcare will be less expensive for poor people now," etc.

To me this isn't something to politicize or talk out of both sides of my mouth about. "Murder is bad" is not a liberal or conservative idea, it's a human idea. This is completely out of bounds for a civilized society.
People are murdered everyday. This person had no more value than the next. Most often the murder had some grudge against the victim as only 10-12% of murders are random. This one had messages scrawled on the bullet casings.
My personal theory is that this murder was NOT a reaction to any health care decision, etc. but personal, with the messages on bullets chosen to misdirect investigations.
It does have a strong reek of a professional hit.
It has the smell of a hit by an operator of some kind, but it's more just the sort of thing that requires an education and cleverness.

The thing is, someone doesn't need to be a professional for that to occur.

The reality is that anyone who has any desire to not be caught is going to think all the way through all the ways society tracks crimes like this.

Everything from weapons to logistics to movement to keeping a low profile while protecting identity... It was probably planned for a while, of the whole idea was "how do I move in a hood without being sus", for example.

This means either STRONG motive or very high pay.

For this "victim", it could go either way. There are lots of people who stood to make money. There are a lot of people who misdirect their hate for a bad system on a figurehead.
Which I think argues for a more personal motive. But probably I just watch to many thrillers…
I dunno. It really looks like the shooter was having "fun" with this. They found his backpack... Full of monopoly money.

This guy is straight up taunting at this point.

This is so well planned it could very well be a post election media cycle distraction.
 
It is dangerous that so many people on social media are using this murder as an occasion to air their concerns about the American healthcare system. A man was murdered in cold blood in what was probably a professional hit, and the response in left leaning spaces has mostly been muted. A large proportion of the comments I see are along the lines of "murder is bad, but maybe healthcare will be less expensive for poor people now," etc.

To me this isn't something to politicize or talk out of both sides of my mouth about. "Murder is bad" is not a liberal or conservative idea, it's a human idea. This is completely out of bounds for a civilized society.
People are murdered everyday. This person had no more value than the next. Most often the murder had some grudge against the victim as only 10-12% of murders are random. This one had messages scrawled on the bullet casings.
My personal theory is that this murder was NOT a reaction to any health care decision, etc. but personal, with the messages on bullets chosen to misdirect investigations.
It does have a strong reek of a professional hit.
It has the smell of a hit by an operator of some kind, but it's more just the sort of thing that requires an education and cleverness.

The thing is, someone doesn't need to be a professional for that to occur.

The reality is that anyone who has any desire to not be caught is going to think all the way through all the ways society tracks crimes like this.

Everything from weapons to logistics to movement to keeping a low profile while protecting identity... It was probably planned for a while, of the whole idea was "how do I move in a hood without being sus", for example.

This means either STRONG motive or very high pay.

For this "victim", it could go either way. There are lots of people who stood to make money. There are a lot of people who misdirect their hate for a bad system on a figurehead.
Which I think argues for a more personal motive. But probably I just watch to many thrillers…
Just doesn’t feel like a DIY thing.
In the circles he ran in, people don’t do their own dirty work.
 
It is dangerous that so many people on social media are using this murder as an occasion to air their concerns about the American healthcare system. A man was murdered in cold blood in what was probably a professional hit, and the response in left leaning spaces has mostly been muted. A large proportion of the comments I see are along the lines of "murder is bad, but maybe healthcare will be less expensive for poor people now," etc.

To me this isn't something to politicize or talk out of both sides of my mouth about. "Murder is bad" is not a liberal or conservative idea, it's a human idea. This is completely out of bounds for a civilized society.
People are murdered everyday. This person had no more value than the next. Most often the murder had some grudge against the victim as only 10-12% of murders are random. This one had messages scrawled on the bullet casings.
My personal theory is that this murder was NOT a reaction to any health care decision, etc. but personal, with the messages on bullets chosen to misdirect investigations.
It does have a strong reek of a professional hit.
It has the smell of a hit by an operator of some kind, but it's more just the sort of thing that requires an education and cleverness.

The thing is, someone doesn't need to be a professional for that to occur.

The reality is that anyone who has any desire to not be caught is going to think all the way through all the ways society tracks crimes like this.

Everything from weapons to logistics to movement to keeping a low profile while protecting identity... It was probably planned for a while, of the whole idea was "how do I move in a hood without being sus", for example.

This means either STRONG motive or very high pay.

For this "victim", it could go either way. There are lots of people who stood to make money. There are a lot of people who misdirect their hate for a bad system on a figurehead.
Which I think argues for a more personal motive. But probably I just watch to many thrillers…
Just doesn’t feel like a DIY thing.
In the circles he ran in, people don’t do their own dirty work.
Yeah, but you also don't generally see such meticulous eye poking with those kinds of actions. This is done for the spectacle of it. It was done to make a show. Everything from the words on the bullets to the faux-sloppiness to the bag that was only brought with the intent to leave it and waste people's time.

I'm honestly impressed with this guy's discipline and planning. It's hard to really impress me? This is the sort of person who was either doing this because they wanted to or because they can command high rates.
 
If he wasn't a professional hit-man before, he's certainly established the credentials needed to become one now, should he so choose.

Though he would do well to remember the advice of the Stainless Steel Rat - never commit the same crime twice.
 
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