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Why won't the Democratic Party Impeach President Trump?

Jimmy Higgins said:
fast said:
Let me come at this from a different (and perhaps irrelevant) angle. The bi-laws of any political party in the United States is not legally enforceable. There’s things that a political party can do, but they have no legal standing, and the group (the party) certainly has no power (legal power) to impeach the President. They couldn’t issue a legal document, let alone do something as spectacular as an impeachment proceeding.
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You were right... it was irrelevant as no one is suggesting the DNC impeach Trump.
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“Why won’t the Democratic Party impeach President Trump?”

I was answering that question, suggestive as that question may or may not be.
 
fast said:
Jimmy Higgins said:
fast said:
Let me come at this from a different (and perhaps irrelevant) angle. The bi-laws of any political party in the United States is not legally enforceable. There’s things that a political party can do, but they have no legal standing, and the group (the party) certainly has no power (legal power) to impeach the President. They couldn’t issue a legal document, let alone do something as spectacular as an impeachment proceeding.
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You were right... it was irrelevant as no one is suggesting the DNC impeach Trump.
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“Why won’t the Democratic Party impeach President Trump?”

I was answering that question, suggestive as that question may or may not be.
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Ah, pedantic. Again, thanks for the brilliant observation and hyper-literal interpretation.
 
 
I accept your criticism. I need to work on that. I have my moments where I try to apply the principle of charity. I guess I was trigger happy.
 
Terrell said:
It could be that the Democratic leadership thinks that there's no benefit to doing it.
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no benefit to their own individual reelection prospects, or no benefit to the people of the United States of America?
 
Harry Bosch said:
Impeachment won't work because the republicans control the senate. More importantly, the failed impeachment will strengthen Trump and empower his followers. We need to stop trying to appeal to tricks. The way to beat Trump is for us to collectively get off our asses and vote...
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You'd also have President Pence. Is that better than Trump? For all of Trump's scandalous behaviour, he hasn't been eager to start wars. Pence may be.
 
Without hearings, no one’s mind will be changed. If the voters change their mind, GOP will fall in line.

So maybe he shouldn’t be impeached right, but hearings should be continued. The GOPers are better at this game.
 
Jolly_Penguin said:
Harry Bosch said:
Impeachment won't work because the republicans control the senate. More importantly, the failed impeachment will strengthen Trump and empower his followers. We need to stop trying to appeal to tricks. The way to beat Trump is for us to collectively get off our asses and vote...
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You'd also have President Pence. Is that better than Trump? For all of Trump's scandalous behaviour, he hasn't been eager to start wars. Pence may be.
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Pence should be a bazillion times better than Trump. This isn't a George HW Bush... "What is Quayle becomes President?" thing. Pence is a mental lightweight, but at least a politician. Trump has absolutely no idea what he is doing.
 
Horatio Parker said:
Without hearings, no one’s mind will be changed. If the voters change their mind, GOP will fall in line.
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Without testimony or documents, there is nothing to base the hearings on. The GOP have already given the finger to the Mueller Report. A transcript from the Ukrainian conversation might tilt the scales though, if Trump did threaten their President.

So maybe he shouldn’t be impeached right, but hearings should be continued. The GOPers are better at this game.
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The GOP are edging into the anti-Democracy category, so yeah, that helps them be better at usurping Democracy.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Pence should be a bazillion times better than Trump.
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Indeed. The low end of the scandal scale would be Obama's tan suit.
The high end would be Trump's treasonous appeal to foreign powers (incl adversaries) for help with his domestic political situation.
Somewhere closer to the tan suit end of the spectrum, would be bringing a motorcade to an island that hasn't had cars on it for over 120 years.
 
Jimmy Higgins said:
Pence is a mental lightweight, but at least a politician. Trump has absolutely no idea what he is doing.
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And Pence does know what he is doing. Does that inspire confidence in you or concern? Have you checked out what the man wants? Do you want him in a position to make it happen?
 
To everyone in the "impeachment is meaningless without conviction" crowd: is your official, on-the-record position that a President should be able to break any law for any reason unless the opposing party has a Congressional majority?
 
Elixir said:
Three Republicans were on Morning Joe a bit ago, all calling for Trump's removal (and even his execution for treason) in far more strident terms than any Democrat has done so far.
Quite a spectacle.

All three of them share the conviction that if Trump is allowed to cancel elections, defy Congress and remain on the ticket, the Republican party will cease to exist after 2020.
Does anyone here share that opinion?
Perhaps a better question: will the Country be better or worse off if the Republican party ceases to exist? I have mixed feelings about that.
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Here is the Morning Joe clip.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/gsiKWeceQqI[/YOUTUBE]
 
ZiprHead said:
Elixir said:
Three Republicans were on Morning Joe a bit ago, all calling for Trump's removal (and even his execution for treason) in far more strident terms than any Democrat has done so far.
Quite a spectacle.

All three of them share the conviction that if Trump is allowed to cancel elections, defy Congress and remain on the ticket, the Republican party will cease to exist after 2020.
Does anyone here share that opinion?
Perhaps a better question: will the Country be better or worse off if the Republican party ceases to exist? I have mixed feelings about that.
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Here is the Morning Joe clip.

[YOUTUBE]https://youtu.be/gsiKWeceQqI[/YOUTUBE]
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All three will absolutely, 100% vote for Trump in 2020
 
PyramidHead said:
To everyone in the "impeachment is meaningless without conviction" crowd: is your official, on-the-record position that a President
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A president?
is ANYONE in the 'impeachment is meaningless without conviction' crowd talking about all presidents, everywhen?
Or are they all talking about 'right now with President Trump and This Senate?'
 
Keith&Co. said:
PyramidHead said:
To everyone in the "impeachment is meaningless without conviction" crowd: is your official, on-the-record position that a President
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A president?
is ANYONE in the 'impeachment is meaningless without conviction' crowd talking about all presidents, everywhen?
Or are they all talking about 'right now with President Trump and This Senate?'
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They are talking about all Presidents, as impeachment is a partisan issue 100% of the time. Next question.
 
Keith&Co. said:
PyramidHead said:
To everyone in the "impeachment is meaningless without conviction" crowd: is your official, on-the-record position that a President
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A president?
is ANYONE in the 'impeachment is meaningless without conviction' crowd talking about all presidents, everywhen?
Or are they all talking about 'right now with President Trump and This Senate?'
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Apparently it's not okay to associate with two-bit crooks, enlist their services and try to protect them if you're a president (Nixon). But it's just fine to side with a foreign adversary against the US intelligence community, aid and abet their efforts to influence US elections, use taxpayers' money to bribe foreign leaders for dirt on political opponents, indulge in all manner disgusting sexual behavior and use campaign money to cover it up etc. etc. etc.

Or, are we only talking about THIS president.
 
I don't think we have mixed feelings about impeachment because it might not accomplish removing him from office. It's because it might not be possible to obtain the evidence that is needed to move the investigation forward. But, I read an opinion piece that put a different spin on impeachment. Perhaps this guy has a point.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2019/09/23/strategic-case-impeaching-donald-trump/

or all of 2019, House Democrats have been wrestling with the question of impeachment. Even as more and more House Democrats sign on to the idea, Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has not. Both sides have valid arguments. Pelosi thinks that impeachment needs to be a bipartisan process, and without GOP support impeachment is a hollow threat that would harm Democrats in 2020. Other House Democrats think that if there is compelling evidence of the president of the United States accepting foreign emoluments, obstructing justice and abusing his power, those high crimes and misdemeanors merit impeachment.
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Okay. So that's where we've been so far.

As Matthew Dallek noted recently in The Post, one of the reasons Trump is such a micromanager is because the weightier aspects of the job overwhelm him: “Where his predecessors sometimes knew so much that they got obsessed with the details, Trump knows so little that microscopic concerns seem almost to be ends in and of themselves.”
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True. Anyone with a working brain knows that Trump is clueless.

So why impeach Trump? Because he will obsess about it. The moment it becomes a live option, the moment a trial in the Senate seems conceivable, he will talk about nothing else. He will rant to his staff and bore foreign leaders about it. He loves a fight. And every moment Trump thinks about impeachment is a moment he is not thinking about doing even more reckless things, like trying to compromise the independence of the Fed, or launching a larger trade war, or stumbling into a real war.

Let me be very clear: I am suggesting that the House impeach Trump for two reasons: 1. He has committed high crimes and misdemeanors; and 2. Impeachment will distract Trump from further harming the national interest.

This is not a perfect strategy. It will sap the energy of the executive branch, something Alexander Hamilton would dislike. There are some small risks to Democrats in 2020, although an impeachment trial would also highlight Trump’s egregious abuses of power. It is possible that if impeachment happens and then the Senate fails to convict, Trump will feel emboldened.
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So, is that a good point? Will starting a formal impeachment investigation keep Trump from doing further damage to the country because he will be so obsessed with it?

The Democrats are facing something that's never happened before. Sure, there are grounds for impeachment, but is it worth trying if they will be met with constant obstruction? If they try and force people to testify and supply information, but they refuse, it would have to go to the courts. It's unlikely decisions would even happen prior to the 2020 election. That is why some of us are not jumping on the impeachment band wagon. But, if it keeps Trump distracted from doing anything but obsessing over impeachment, maybe it's worth starting an impeachment investigation.

I've obsessed over this myself. I've changed my mind at least ten times in the past month about what is the best way forward. I'm glad that it's not my decision to make, and I hope the Democrats will do whatever is best. Pelosi has hinted that this latest Ukrainian thing might change the direction of the investigation. At this point, if impeachment is started, I'm pretty sure it will still be going on when the next election occurs. Imo, the Democrats are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
 
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