Will there be political violence after the election this fall?

[SLD]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07...ntested-trump-biden-election-it-wasnt-pretty/

Interesting war game carried out by various actors, and if the election is close, The scenarios showed violence on both sides escalating. I suspect if there is a clear winner, this won’t happen. But if it is close there will be claims of fraud, voter suppression, foreign interference, and what not. There will be legal challenges and expect Trump supporters to try and intimidate any opposition. If Trump wins expect DC to explode. This is not pretty is an understatement.

The article is behind a paywall, but a google search of its title will get you the gist of it.

 

[Elixir]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07...ntested-trump-biden-election-it-wasnt-pretty/

Interesting war game carried out by various actors, and if the election is close, The scenarios showed violence on both sides escalating. I suspect if there is a clear winner, this won’t happen. But if it is close there will be claims of fraud, voter suppression, foreign interference, and what not. There will be legal challenges and expect Trump supporters to try and intimidate any opposition. If Trump wins expect DC to explode. This is not pretty is an understatement.

The article is behind a paywall, but a google search of its title will get you the gist of it.

It's fairly guaranteed that Trump will declare the election close, rigged, unfair and null and void - even if he loses every State in a landslide. And of course he will hail the landslide in his favor even if he loses the popular vote by 6% and ekes out 270 electoral votes...

The question in my mind is whether, if/when Trump calls for his army of AR-15 wielding 2A idiots to go out in the streets and start flinging lead around, they will respond in significant numbers. I kinda doubt it.

 

[Politesse]

Well, there's abundant political violence now. It's hard to imagine that the election will somehow calm things down, at least in the immediate term. The onset of winter usually has a calming effect on civil disturbance, but we'll be out in the streets again come May, sure as rain. Our government is taking no action whatsoever to de-escalate the tension, and it won't disappear on its own.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There was violent agitation after the last election. It wouldn't surprise me if it happened again.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07...ntested-trump-biden-election-it-wasnt-pretty/

Interesting war game carried out by various actors, and if the election is close, The scenarios showed violence on both sides escalating. I suspect if there is a clear winner, this won’t happen. But if it is close there will be claims of fraud, voter suppression, foreign interference, and what not. There will be legal challenges and expect Trump supporters to try and intimidate any opposition. If Trump wins expect DC to explode. This is not pretty is an understatement.

The article is behind a paywall, but a google search of its title will get you the gist of it.

It's fairly guaranteed that Trump will declare the election close, rigged, unfair and null and void - even if he loses every State in a landslide. And of course he will hail the landslide in his favor even if he loses the popular vote by 6% and ekes out 270 electoral votes...

The question in my mind is whether, if/when Trump calls for his army of AR-15 wielding 2A idiots to go out in the streets and start flinging lead around, they will respond in significant numbers. I kinda doubt it.

My take too. Don't expect Dotard to do a John McCain and tell his supporters that they're acting like a bunch of hateful idiots. Dotard will never do that because he's incapable of that level of civil behavior. But his handlers will see that civility reigns.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

It's fairly guaranteed that Trump will declare the election close, rigged, unfair and null and void - even if he loses every State in a landslide.

"Even if he loses every state in a landslide."

Wow.

I do predict that this election will be so messy that both sides declare victory and both sides accuse the other of cheating, but I don't predict that we get the completely clear-cut scenario you describe. If we do get it though, a super-obvious lopsided outcome, I'd be surprised if your conclusion also comes to pass. That's some top grade paranoia you've got.

 

[zorq]

It's fairly guaranteed that Trump will declare the election close, rigged, unfair and null and void - even if he loses every State in a landslide.

"Even if he loses every state in a landslide."

Wow.

I do predict that this election will be so messy that both sides declare victory and both sides accuse the other of cheating, but I don't predict that we get the completely clear-cut scenario you describe. If we do get it though, a super-obvious lopsided outcome, I'd be surprised if your conclusion also comes to pass. That's some top grade paranoia you've got.

It isn't paranoia to predict an unrepentant addict will relapse.

Likewise, it isn't paranoia to predict an unrepentant narcissist will deny their failures, try to shift blame, or lie and gaslight others.

I don't understand how you could have so much opposition to a prediction with such a probable outcome.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

There are two parts to the prediction, both unlikely.

1. A clear unequivocal outcome.
2. Refusal to acknowledge 1 if it comes to pass.

Of course we probably won't face this test, because I think 1 is unlikely.

 

[Elixir]

There are two parts to the prediction, both unlikely.

1. A clear unequivocal outcome.
2. Refusal to acknowledge 1 if it comes to pass.

Of course we probably won't face this test, because I think 1 is unlikely.

I didn’t predict a landslide. I did and still do predict that Cheato will behave like Cheato, regardless of the election tally. Call that paranoia if you like. I call your prediction that there is any scenario where Cheato accepts defeat wishful Happy Talk. Trump has already declared that the yet-to-be-held election “was” rigged. (IOW he is rigging the election to the best of his ability).

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

If you don't predict a clear unequivocal outcome, then you predict one where both sides have sufficient grounds to say that the results look like they are the winner. You're trying to have it both ways.

"It will be a muddled outcome where there is no clear winner, and Biden will clearly win. What next?"

What's next is you try to make sense of your own position.

So, if we are talking about unequivocal outcomes, there are two possible unequivocal outcomes. One is Trump is clearly the winner, one is Biden is clearly the winner.

Do you predict violence if Trump is clearly the winner?
Do you predict violence if Biden is clearly the winner?

Are your answers to those questions different?

 

[Gospel]

There are two parts to the prediction, both unlikely.

1. A clear unequivocal outcome.
2. Refusal to acknowledge 1 if it comes to pass.

Of course we probably won't face this test, because I think 1 is unlikely.

I didn’t predict a landslide. I did and still do predict that Cheato will behave like Cheato, regardless of the election tally. Call that paranoia if you like. I call your prediction that there is any scenario where Cheato accepts defeat wishful Happy Talk. Trump has already declared that the yet-to-be-held election “was” rigged. (IOW he is rigging the election to the best of his ability).

Yeah Trump will be Trump. He pushed to investigate voter fraud in an election he won for sciences sake!

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Trumpo the clown is gone. He is losing the four states that gave him the EC in 2016. Florida, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania.
Texas, Iowa, Ohio are now toss up states, and Ohio seems to be rapidly slipping out of Trump's reach. Then we have states like Colorado, Nevada, Arizona. Trump can rage tweet, complain and sue all he wants, it will not help him. Playing with 270towin's interactive map, while looking at 538 and RCP is fun. About the only thing that could save Trumpo now is if Biden had a heart attack.

 

[SLD]

Do you predict violence if Trump is clearly the winner?

Yes. If Trump is the clear winner, I predict Biden will concede, but that cities like Washington, DC will riot, and many other big cities.

Do you predict violence if Biden is clearly the winner?

Yes. I predict that regardless of how big Biden wins, Trump will not concede and claim that the election was fraudulent, and will launch numerous legal challenges throughout the country. He will call out the troops to suppress protests against this move, and even his goons squads of alt right gun nuts to suppress any challenges. He will use this mayhem to justify just about anything. Whether he ultimately gets away with it I’m not sure, but he’s been stacking the courts with his judges for years.

 

[KeepTalking]

If you don't predict a clear unequivocal outcome, then you predict one where both sides have sufficient grounds to say that the results look like they are the winner. You're trying to have it both ways.

"It will be a muddled outcome where there is no clear winner, and Biden will clearly win. What next?"

Who are you quoting here? No one has said the above in this thread except for you.

It must be nice to enter any thread you like, set up a strawman quote, and then knock it down so you can pretend you did something meaningful.

 

[Elixir]

If you don't predict a clear unequivocal outcome, then you predict one where both sides have sufficient grounds to say that the results look like they are the winner.

I "predict" (post-dict) that mail-in vote fraud, Biden's connections in Ukraine, Hillary's pizza joint, millions of illegals voting in caravans and whatever other invented "facts" need to be brought to bear, will provide "sufficient grounds" to Trump that he will contest ANY result that shows him losing.

I also predict that I will have "sufficient grounds" to state unequivocally that he cheated, if Trump is handed the election.

Your black and white world where there are "clear and unequivocal outcomes" is a childish fantasy. Such outcomes exist in the heads of individuals, not in any objective reality. That's why Cheato will not go quietly.

 

[ZiprHead]

If you don't predict a clear unequivocal outcome, then you predict one where both sides have sufficient grounds to say that the results look like they are the winner.

I "predict" (post-dict) that mail-in vote fraud, Biden's connections in Ukraine, Hillary's pizza joint, millions of illegals voting in caravans and whatever other invented "facts" need to be brought to bear, will provide "sufficient grounds" to Trump that he will contest ANY result that shows him losing.

I also predict that I will have "sufficient grounds" to state unequivocally that he cheated, if Trump is handed the election.

Your black and white world where there are "clear and unequivocal outcomes" is a childish fantasy. Such outcomes exist in the heads of individuals, not in any objective reality. That's why Cheato will not go quietly.

One prediction I've heard is that Bonespurs will challenge in the courts all mail in ballots in key states.

While it may be plain for all to see that the supreme court would reject such a challenge, I still remember Bush v. Gore.

 

[Elixir]

If you don't predict a clear unequivocal outcome, then you predict one where both sides have sufficient grounds to say that the results look like they are the winner.

I "predict" (post-dict) that mail-in vote fraud, Biden's connections in Ukraine, Hillary's pizza joint, millions of illegals voting in caravans and whatever other invented "facts" need to be brought to bear, will provide "sufficient grounds" to Trump that he will contest ANY result that shows him losing.

I also predict that I will have "sufficient grounds" to state unequivocally that he cheated, if Trump is handed the election.

Your black and white world where there are "clear and unequivocal outcomes" is a childish fantasy. Such outcomes exist in the heads of individuals, not in any objective reality. That's why Cheato will not go quietly.

One prediction I've heard is that Bonespurs will challenge in the courts all mail in ballots in key states.

While it may be plain for all to see that the supreme court would reject such a challenge, I still remember Bush v. Gore.

Yup. That's a concern. Maybe.
It would be funny if he issued that challenge before it was all tabulated, the SCOTUS agreed to throw out all the mail-in ballots, and it turned out that most of them were for Cheato - thereby costing him the election...

 

[Gun Nut]

Do you predict violence if Trump is clearly the winner?

Yes. If Trump is the clear winner, I predict Biden will concede, but that cities like Washington, DC will riot, and many other big cities.

Do you predict violence if Biden is clearly the winner?

Yes. I predict that regardless of how big Biden wins, Trump will not concede and claim that the election was fraudulent, and will launch numerous legal challenges throughout the country. He will call out the troops to suppress protests against this move, and even his goons squads of alt right gun nuts to suppress any challenges. He will use this mayhem to justify just about anything. Whether he ultimately gets away with it I’m not sure, but he’s been stacking the courts with his judges for years.

Since you mentioned me by name... although I am a centrist / moderate Gun Nut...

I agree he will call for violence, and that there will be tiny, rural places where a show of violence will occur. And there will be arrests of people who are violent... but unfortunately, not until people are hurt or killed by those particular nuts.
Once he is technically no longer the president (regardless if an election is finalized, his term simply ends on a hard date - and if he delays the election results being finalized, it just goes to the speaker of the house until the election is finalized), our Centuries old means of peaceful transfer of power will be fully and swiftly supported by our military, who understands more than any other group that he ceases being capable of giving a legal order. The new POTUS (either Nancy or Joe) will have the power to simply have him physically removed like a sack of shit. and extra points if they "Don't hold his head for him while being put in the car".
The judges that he has been "stacking the courts" with seem to be voting against his cases pretty consistently. They don't need him for anything anymore.. they got their life term appointment. They are performing for how they want to be remembered in history books, not in Trump's memoirs.

 

[Gun Nut]

If you don't predict a clear unequivocal outcome, then you predict one where both sides have sufficient grounds to say that the results look like they are the winner.

I "predict" (post-dict) that mail-in vote fraud, Biden's connections in Ukraine, Hillary's pizza joint, millions of illegals voting in caravans and whatever other invented "facts" need to be brought to bear, will provide "sufficient grounds" to Trump that he will contest ANY result that shows him losing.

I also predict that I will have "sufficient grounds" to state unequivocally that he cheated, if Trump is handed the election.

Your black and white world where there are "clear and unequivocal outcomes" is a childish fantasy. Such outcomes exist in the heads of individuals, not in any objective reality. That's why Cheato will not go quietly.

One prediction I've heard is that Bonespurs will challenge in the courts all mail in ballots in key states.

While it may be plain for all to see that the supreme court would reject such a challenge, I still remember Bush v. Gore.

Bush v. Gore was resolved on December 12th, prior to the end of the president's term in January.
If Trump v. Biden is not resolved by the end of the term, then it will be Acting President Pelosi that takes control of the military.
Furthermore, it will be the NEW SENATE that is elected in November that would be engaging in Congressional actions relating to this, so it may very well be a Democrat house and senate dealing with Trump's tantrum.

 

[ZiprHead]

One prediction I've heard is that Bonespurs will challenge in the courts all mail in ballots in key states.

While it may be plain for all to see that the supreme court would reject such a challenge, I still remember Bush v. Gore.

Bush v. Gore was resolved on December 12th, prior to the end of the president's term in January.
If Trump v. Biden is not resolved by the end of the term, then it will be Acting President Pelosi that takes control of the military.
Furthermore, it will be the NEW SENATE that is elected in November that would be engaging in Congressional actions relating to this, so it may very well be a Democrat house and senate dealing with Trump's tantrum.

What if the Supreme Court rules mail-in ballots to be invalid on December 12th?