Woman threatens cops with a rock, is not killed.

[Worldtraveller]

That first link claims that 3x as many black people are killed by police than are white people (be very careful to note that does NOT equate to that you are 3x more likely to be killed by police if you are black). I've heard other stats from other sources that give extremely different numbers than that. I don't know what to believe.

It then claims that 30% of black "victims" and 21% of white "victims" (why are we assuming people killed by police to automatically be victims?) were unarmed.

If you are killed by the police, you are by definition, the victim.

If you want to argue that they might have 'deserved it', remember that the police are not supposed to be judge, jury and executioner. Also, statistically, it does seem (from the limited data that is available) that it is much worse for minorities. Do you really want to argue otherwise?

Also, the vittana link notes that my point about police hiding data is valid. Do you really want to argue that if they had statistics that made them look fair and equitable, they would be hiding it?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

That first link claims that 3x as many black people are killed by police than are white people (be very careful to note that does NOT equate to that you are 3x more likely to be killed by police if you are black). I've heard other stats from other sources that give extremely different numbers than that. I don't know what to believe.

It then claims that 30% of black "victims" and 21% of white "victims" (why are we assuming people killed by police to automatically be victims?) were unarmed.

If you are killed by the police, you are by definition, the victim.

If you want to argue that they might have 'deserved it', remember that the police are not supposed to be judge, jury and executioner. Also, statistically, it does seem (from the limited data that is available) that it is much worse for minorities. Do you really want to argue otherwise?

Also, the vittana link notes that my point about police hiding data is valid. Do you really want to argue that if they had statistics that made them look fair and equitable, they would be hiding it?

Thats a lot of straw wrapped into one post, so I'll just make a simple "no" suffice as my answer.

 

[Worldtraveller]

So, more dodging. Got it.

For someone who repeatedly claims to be 'liberal' you have yet to meet any of the criteria based on your posts here that I've seen.

I'm an astronaut.

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Dodging? What dodging? That was a uniformly applicable direct answer to all of your questions quoted. No, I wouldn't argue what you want to pretend I am arguing. "Do you really want to argue [fill in the blank from above]".... No. No I don't. I didn't say I did.

I'm an astronaut.

Good for you. You always did seem a little spaced out.

 

[ruby sparks]

White people women can behave like a bunch of savages without consequences. No one murdered her and then said she wasn't following orders.

FIFY?

 

[Angry Floof]

White people women can behave like a bunch of savages without consequences. No one murdered her and then said she wasn't following orders.

FIFY?

What is your point? Men are overwhelmingly more violent than women. Boys get away with overwhelmingly more violent and savage behavior than girls. Is your privilege so triggered by the phrase "white people" that you'll stoop to insinuating blatant falsehoods?

 

[ruby sparks]

Arguing that police don't act worse and are more dangerous towards minorities is pretty much equivalent to climate change denial at this point.

I agree. The answer to the question, 'do police act more badly towards minorities' (let's call this question 1) is a no-brainer 'yes'.

However, imo it is very likely that they don't act as badly towards minorities (and don't act as badly towards minorities for racist reasons) as often or as much as some suggest, and also very likely, imo, that they act more badly towards minorities (including for racist reasons) than some, different, others suggest.

My guess is that some of the unwarranted scepticism by some posters here about 'yes' answers to question 1 is a reaction to suggestions that the police (a) act very badly towards minorities for (b) very often, racist reasons. So we end up with some (one 'side') overstating racism and others ('the other side') understating it.

So the better questions are really about how much they act more badly towards minorities (question 2) and why (question 3).

 

[ruby sparks]

White people women can behave like a bunch of savages without consequences. No one murdered her and then said she wasn't following orders.

FIFY?

What is your point? Men are overwhelmingly more violent than women. Boys get away with overwhelmingly more violent and savage behavior than girls. Is your privilege so triggered by the phrase "white people" that you'll stoop to insinuating blatant falsehoods?

The person in the OP video was pretty much acting like a savage. So what makes you think that racism and not gender had more to do with the police reaction?

 

[Angry Floof]

What is your point? Men are overwhelmingly more violent than women. Boys get away with overwhelmingly more violent and savage behavior than girls. Is your privilege so triggered by the phrase "white people" that you'll stoop to insinuating blatant falsehoods?

The person in the OP video was pretty much acting like a savage. So what makes you think that racism and not gender had more to do with the police reaction?

Because black women are killed and brutalized by police, too. Their being female doesn't matter so much if they are black.

Black women bear a double burden ― carrying the weight of a weaponized skin color and the invisibility of a silenced gender.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...lack-women-police_us_5aeb5b6be4b0ab5c3d634fd5

https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-...ces/say-her-name-recognizing-police-brutality

Black women get killed for their skin color and then their deaths are ignored because of their gender.

 

[ruby sparks]

Because black women are killed and brutalized by police, too. Their being female doesn't matter so much if they are black.

That does not tell us anything about whether race or gender had more to do with the police reaction in the OP case.

 

[Angry Floof]

Because black women are killed and brutalized by police, too. Their being female doesn't matter so much if they are black.

That does not tell us anything about whether race or gender had more to do with the police reaction in the OP case.

Blacks are disproportionately brutalized by police and women are ignored and silenced by society.

I'm not dealing with any more bootlicking tonight.

 

[ruby sparks]

Because black women are killed and brutalized by police, too. Their being female doesn't matter so much if they are black.

That does not tell us anything about whether race or gender had more to do with the police reaction in the OP case.

Blacks are disproportionately brutalized by police and women are ignored and silenced by society.

I would agree that both of those are probably true, if you put the word 'disproportionately' in front of both, but they are not both related to the OP case. The woman in the OP case was not 'ignored and silenced by society' or by anyone. The woman in the OP was 'treated more leniently', as far as can be seen, likely partly because of her gender, for which there is a presumed/implicit perception of there being a lesser threat, even if this is not warranted by the actual actions of the person acting threateningly, if it's a woman.

Personally, I would be very, very surprised indeed if both gender and race were not generally factors in such things.

Along with other factors.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In that situation the rock is unlikely to be a lethal threat.

That is not your position when it is Palestinian child with a rock.

You realize the ones that get shot are doing things like dropping big concrete blocks on soldiers?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

In that situation the rock is unlikely to be a lethal threat.

Completely unarmed (but black) individuals are seen as a threat, and often killed by cops, and you defend that action. So what's the difference? Hrmm....I wonder...

Completely unarmed individuals trying to take a cop's weapon are a lethal threat.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It never ceases to amaze me that people on this board (a board full of skeptics and freethinkers, supposedly) will make broad generalizations about differences in treatment between blacks and whites by the police based on a handful of cell phone videos. These are anecdotes, people. Do you seriously think there are not incidents where cops treated white people horribly, and were cordial to black people? Do you not realize that people looking to push a particular narrative (like TYT) are not going to show those videos? To come to any conclusions about police bias, you need to rely on statistics, not self selected cell phone videos!

For the most part it's based on people who don't even understand the issue.

For example, that pair of videos in which the white guy had a rifle carried on his back and the black guy had the same gun carried by his hand. Of course the latter prompted a much greater reaction from the cops!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It never ceases to amaze me that people on this board (a board full of skeptics and freethinkers, supposedly) will make broad generalizations about differences in treatment between blacks and whites by the police based on a handful of cell phone videos. These are anecdotes, people. Do you seriously think there are not incidents where cops treated white people horribly, and were cordial to black people? Do you not realize that people looking to push a particular narrative (like TYT) are not going to show those videos? To come to any conclusions about police bias, you need to rely on statistics, not self selected cell phone videos!

Which would be great. Except, the police refuse to let anyone have access to (or sometimes even keep) statistics.... So the fact that we now have so many people with cameras (and some police are supposed to always wear them) and we're seeing a heavily slanted 'bias' that might actually be reality.

Can you find statistics from a reliable, neutral source?

Well, how about looking at the sites that keep track of those killed by the police?

Quite disproportionately black--but look more carefully. What's a fundamental requirement for being shot by the police? You have to encounter the police! Now, we don't have decent data on this but we do have a reasonable proxy for it--those arrested by the police. What happens when you look at those killed vs those arrested? Now it's slightly more likely that you'll get shot if you're white.

 

[ruby sparks]

If (as seems to be the case) predominantly black areas are high-crime, then there is a (non-racial) reason to have more police officers in those areas. More police officers plus more crimes will mean more interactions/engagements with suspects, and that would push up the figures of fatal shootings of blacks merely on the statistical law of averages.

That does not mean that the background, structural, institutional or underlying reasons for predominantly black areas being high-crime are non-race-related, nor that overall pattens and numbers of encounters/engagements are non-race-related, nor that race is not a factor in an individual case, but it does offer a reason to think that racism is not as much of or as often a factor as it may appear to be, and incidentally may explain why nonwhite officers apparently (see below) kill black and latino suspects at significantly higher rates than white officers do (partly because they are more likely to be assigned to patrol predominantly nonwhite areas).

https://psmag.com/social-justice/black-cops-are-just-as-likely-as-whites-to-kill-black-suspects

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/puar.12956

 

[ruby sparks]

For the most part it's based on people who don't even understand the issue.

For example, that pair of videos in which the white guy had a rifle carried on his back and the black guy had the same gun carried by his hand. Of course the latter prompted a much greater reaction from the cops!

Hey Loren, what are you getting for christmas? Don't tell me, I'll guess. An even bigger pair of blinkers?

 

[laughing dog]

In that situation the rock is unlikely to be a lethal threat.

That is not your position when it is Palestinian child with a rock.

You realize the ones that get shot are doing things like dropping big concrete blocks on soldiers?

I realize you will say anything to justify views. This https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-teen-suspected-of-throwing-rocks-shot-by-idf-near-ramallah/ proves your claim wrong.

According to your many posts, the police are justified in killing anyone who is reasonable threat to their lives. We all know that a rock can be a lethal weapon. So why are you now saying this woman was not a reasonable threat?

 

[RavenSky]

In that situation the rock is unlikely to be a lethal threat.

Says the guy who insists that a sidewalk IS a lethal threat

- - - Updated - - -

In that situation the rock is unlikely to be a lethal threat.

That is not your position when it is Palestinian child with a rock.

^^^ and that