Would you compromise on abortion?

[NobleSavage]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

 

[Nice Squirrel]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

Why not just offer all of those AND abortion.

 

[NobleSavage]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

Why not just offer all of those AND abortion.

Read the title. 50% of Americans are pro life. Would you compromise with them?

 

[Jolly_Penguin]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

The entrenched pro-choice people won't for it. You would still be forcing women to go through pregnancy against their will, and violating a woman's right to control her body. Why should mandatory safe sex education and free birth control make up for that?

And I have always been baffled by people who say that abortion is murder, but ok in the case of rape. We don't excuse murderers from killing other victims because somebody else had raped them. If you want to justify murder based on rape, then shouldn't it be the father that the mother is killing, and not the innocent child?

Death of the mother, control of her body, etc are rational arguments to allow abortion even if the unborn is our equal, but rape by a third party just isn't.

And of course all of the above is moot if you don't accept the unborn as our equal in the first place, as most pro-choice people don't.

 

[Ford]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

All of those things would reduce the rate of unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortion.


Furthermore, it is worth pointing out that prior to 1973, abortions were illegal - period - in the United States, there was little or no safe sex education, and birth control (at least for women) was hard to come by.

What we have now is sort of a ad hoc compromise. Abortion is legal, but not easy to obtain in some states. Sex education is spotty at best, and birth control is widely available though not often free.


On principle, though, no. I would not compromise on the idea that a woman is the final arbiter of whether or not she bears a child. If we make an exception in the case of rape, for example, then we'd be saying it is okay to get an abortion if you were forced to have sex against your will, but the state otherwise forcing you to carry a pregnancy to term is okay.

 

[doubtingt]

Why not just offer all of those AND abortion.

Read the title. 50% of Americans are pro life. Would you compromise with them?

"Pro life" actually means pro religious authoritarian control, so very few pro lifers would agree to education, free birth control, or free choice by daughters to use it.

That aside, I would not accept the compromise unless abortion was near certain to be banned anyway. I am not just pro-choice. I am also pro-abortion, meaning I want women to choose, but I'd prefer they choose abortion as often as possible. I certainly want them to choose it any time they aren't financially prepared to handle a (or another) child, or emotionally prepared. The people most likely to not be financially and emotionally ready for the child are largely those most likely not to take advantage of the education and free contraception. I want them to be able to choose abortion for their and the rest of our benefit, and I'll help pay for them to get it.

 

[whichphilosophy]

Why not just offer all of those AND abortion.

Read the title. 50% of Americans are pro life. Would you compromise with them?

We do have a compromise. Within the law, those who choose to have an abortion may do so and those who do not want to have an abortion needn't have one. At the end of the day it is the woman's right to choose. I'm not quite sure how you could enforce a law on safe sex. Would you need a consultant present during intercourse?

 

[whichphilosophy]

Read the title. 50% of Americans are pro life. Would you compromise with them?

"Pro life" actually means pro religious authoritarian control, so very few pro lifers would agree to education, free birth control, or free choice by daughters to use it.

That aside, I would not accept the compromise unless abortion was near certain to be banned anyway. I am not just pro-choice. I am also pro-abortion, meaning I want women to choose, but I'd prefer they choose abortion as often as possible. I certainly want them to choose it any time they aren't financially prepared to handle a (or another) child, or emotionally prepared. The people most likely to not be financially and emotionally ready for the child are largely those most likely not to take advantage of the education and free contraception. I want them to be able to choose abortion for their and the rest of our benefit, and I'll help pay for them to get it.

Interesting. I would generally be in a sense, Pro-Life but would not seek to prevent women from choosing an abortion within current legislation which I think is very reasonable.

 

[dystopian]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

Why the hell would I infringe on people's bodily rights in exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education (afaik we already have that over here) and 100% free birth control (it's not like it's exactly expensive)?

 

[Toni]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

That's not a compromise.

And a majority of Americans still support Roe v Wade.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

That's not much of a compromise--it's about punishing sex they don't like, they accept abortion in case of rape/incest.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Why not just offer all of those AND abortion.

Read the title. 50% of Americans are pro life. Would you compromise with them?

No. No more than a few percent at most of Americans are pro-life. Nearly half are pro-punishment--a position with no sane legal or moral basis.

 

[credoconsolans]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

No.

Birth control still fails, there is rape.

 

[Playball40]

No, I would not. I would not want my daughters to ever to have to go through what my mother did prior to RvW. RvW and birth control both opened up many opportunities for women previously not afforded to them. Why would we want to go backward on that front? Even though RvW was in 1973, abortions have been going on for centuries (and not always safely). RvW already restricts the procedure late in pregnancy so I think that the law is fine as it is. I think all of these new restrictions are bullshit and forcing the country and our women even further back into a male controlled society.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

RvW already restricts the procedure late in pregnancy so I think that the law is fine as it is. I think all of these new restrictions are bullshit and forcing the country and our women even further back into a male controlled society.

My only compromise would be to extend that time late in pregnancy when abortion is restricted.

 

[RavenSky]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

No.

Too many anti-choice nutcases think all of the most effective forms of birth control are also abortions, and/or refuse to allow genuine sex-ed in schools, so any offer to compromise on those terms is immediately suspect.

The only appropriate compromise is don't have an abortion if you don't want one.

 

[Arctish]

There is no legitimate compromise to be made on either side.

If you believe that deciding for yourself how your body is to be used is a fundamental human right, there is no compromising on that point. There is only surrendering your human rights.

If you believe that human life begins at conception and that human life is sacred, there is no compromising on that point, either. There is only an immoral bargaining away of other people's lives.

If it were possible to forge a compromise between those two fundamentally different views, it would have happened 40 years ago.

 

[NobleSavage]

There is no legitimate compromise to be made on either side.

If you believe that deciding for yourself how your body is to be used is a fundamental human right, there is no compromising on that point. There is only surrendering your human rights.

If you believe that human life begins at conception and that human life is sacred, there is no compromising on that point, either. There is only an immoral bargaining away of other people's lives.

If it were possible to forge a compromise between those two fundamentally different views, it would have happened 40 years ago.

Yeah, that's basically how I see it. Even though religious belief, in the US, is dropping significantly, pro-life/pro-choice beliefs are staying the same. I like this compromise because most pro-life people wouldn't accept it - which demonstrates they are more concerned with punishing sex that they don't like instead of preventing abortions. I think it would be a good strategic bluff.

 

[Valjean]

Originally Posted by NobleSavage View Post
Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

If you're going to include rape and incest you remove the whole rationale for restricting abortion.
Either abortion is OK for the health and convenience of the mother or it's not OK because the foetus has a right to life. Abort a rape foetus and you kill an innocent for convenience/mental health.

Read the title. 50% of Americans are pro life. Would you compromise with them?

I'll bet this 50% is more supportive of the death penalty, war and a strong military than the 50% that supports abortion.
Pro life my arse.

 

[RavenSky]

Make it illegal except for death of mother, rape, incest, etc. In exchange for mandatory secular safe sex education that covers birth control. And 100% free birth control for anyone anytime. Parent's could not prevent their daughters from obtaining birth control.

If you're going to include rape and incest you remove the whole rationale for restricting abortion.
Either abortion is OK for the health and convenience of the mother or it's not OK because the foetus has a right to life. Abort a rape foetus and you kill an innocent for convenience/mental health.

^^^ that