X-Men: Days of Future Past

[PyramidHead]

But they did know exactly where she was going to be and when and their entire plan revolved around being in that exact place at that exact time. There is zero that Magneto could have offered to their plan which wouldn't have been done ten times better by Quicksilverat with a tenth of the risk.

also, if the plan was to try and reshape the future to be better, not just in terms of the sentinel program but overall regarding human/mutant relations, they may have felt that getting xavier and magneto back together was the best way to get that ball rolling.

Well, that was a bad plan and they nearly all died as a result.

A couple things were at play...

For one, Quicksilver was not in the original script, it was a young Juggernaut who original was supposed to break into the Pentagon. Stupid idea, which is why the director suggested Quicksilver. But they didn't want to change everything else, so it remains a little odd that he wasn't used more in the end.

Unless, and I think this kinda makes sense, they felt like they could count on Quicksilver to do something like break into the Pentagon as a little "trophy" for his thieving accomplishments, but maybe he wouldn't be interested in stopping an assassination. I could see there being a deleted scene or something where they ask him to stop Mystique and he's like "what's in it for me" again.

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i too watched the mystique reveal with a serious case of 'what the shit?', since it made so much sense for that to be stryker and to then segue into the whole weapon X thing.

but, on the flip side, if this means that the 3rd wolverine movie can now be an adaptation of the "Weapon X" mini-series (which will absolutely never happen but my nerd fantasy can hope) then it will all be worth it.

Well, in the comics there was a timeline where Apocalypse was the one who gave Wolverine his metal claws and bones, as a reward for becoming one of the Four Horsemen... that would be pretty interesting to see in the next movie.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Unless, and I think this kinda makes sense, they felt like they could count on Quicksilver to do something like break into the Pentagon as a little "trophy" for his thieving accomplishments, but maybe he wouldn't be interested in stopping an assassination. I could see there being a deleted scene or something where they ask him to stop Mystique and he's like "what's in it for me" again.

There didn't need to be a deleted scene. It was clear that the only reason he helped them was to break into the Pentagon. They clearly showed that he had little interest in actually utilizing his powers to their full potential by showing that mostly what he stole was trinkets and twinkies.

 

[prideandfall]

Well, in the comics there was a timeline where Apocalypse was the one who gave Wolverine his metal claws and bones, as a reward for becoming one of the Four Horsemen... that would be pretty interesting to see in the next movie.

that's not "a timeline", that's the mainstream marvel universe where that happened, and it's how he eventually got his adamantium laced skeleton back after magneto ripped it out of him back in the 90s.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

that's not "a timeline", that's the mainstream marvel universe where that happened, and it's how he eventually got his adamantium laced skeleton back after magneto ripped it out of him back in the 90s.

Well, I hope they don't do anything like that and just take his having gotten the adamantium skeleton as a given in the next movies. We don't need pointless scenes with him running around with the useless bone claws before they put his character back.

 

[Shadowy Man]

that's not "a timeline", that's the mainstream marvel universe where that happened, and it's how he eventually got his adamantium laced skeleton back after magneto ripped it out of him back in the 90s.

Well, I hope they don't do anything like that and just take his having gotten the adamantium skeleton as a given in the next movies. We don't need pointless scenes with him running around with the useless bone claws before they put his character back.

Is he even slated to be in the next movie?

 

[Tom Sawyer]

that's not "a timeline", that's the mainstream marvel universe where that happened, and it's how he eventually got his adamantium laced skeleton back after magneto ripped it out of him back in the 90s.

Well, I hope they don't do anything like that and just take his having gotten the adamantium skeleton as a given in the next movies. We don't need pointless scenes with him running around with the useless bone claws before they put his character back.

Is he even slated to be in the next movie?

He's hemming and hawing about it and saying how he'll need to read a script and blah blah blah. They'll throw money at him and he'll come back. An X-Man movie without Wolverine isn't really an X-Man movie. He's the face of the franchise.

 

[Unbeatable]

Maybe there're try to set up a Mystique solo movie. They want wolverine in every Xmen movie so this way those two can do something in a spin off.

I hope they transition her all the way into villainy, then. This film reminded me of how much more interesting Mystique was in the comics where she's a duplicitous scheming wild card and not somebody defined almost entirely by her relationship to Xavier and Magneto. In the films, the only improvements are her appearance and her weirdly-choreographed acrobatics. That was enough when she was just Magneto's henchwoman. But since they cast an actual actress in the role and gave her something resembling a character arc, she's been disappointing. Jennifer Lawrence's performance is bland, and I wish the character would get further out from under Xavier and Magneto's shadows and develop more personality. Even though assassinating Trask was her idea, she didn't really feel like enough of her own person.

I didn't really like quicksiver. He was too over powered. If he could only go into hyper time for a short while or it took a lot out of him his scenes would have more impact.

I prefer when it's the other way around-- when a speedster is stuck in "hyper time" and has to exert themselves to slow their perceptions and reactions down to the point of being able to tolerate interactions with the slowpokes around them, and avoid inadvertently destroying things by imparting them with too much kinetic energy. I liked the acknowledgement that non-speedsters traveling with him are at risk of whiplash and motion sickness, for example. If he had been more than a minor character only used basically for that one scene, there's a wealth of complications like that which they could explore. Maybe the Flash TV series'll succeed in that area, but I have my doubts about CW writers' interest in thinking things through to that extent.

So my main disappointment with Maximoff (apart from the fact that the damn writers couldn't resist that stupid "wink to the fanboys" line about his mother knowing a guy with magnetic powers) is that he was able to transition so seamlessly out of super speed and that he wasn't even more impatient, distractable, and detached from the people around him. Evan Peters is great at playing characters with abnormal personalities, so he could've done it.

Think back to Neo in the Matrix going into bullet time. It was awesome watching him struggle and barely dodge the bullets in the first film compared to his over powered reality control in the sequels.

Having never watched the sequels, I wouldn't know. One thing I would say, though, is that I've developed a liking for one-sided fights. Maybe it's just that I'm tired of suspending disbelief for the notion that protagonists (outside of Game of Thrones and a small number of other works) might actually lose, that I like scenes where they abandon the illusion of suspense and instead just have fun showing off, focusing on the visual spectacle and creativity of how the character utterly dominates the opposition. I find that more awesome these days than a struggle. The key is that they need to actually deliver on the visual spectacle and creativity, and avoid setting the audience up for disappointment by pretending that there's suspense. I felt that the Quicksilver scenes did that. I don't know how it worked in the Matrix sequels, but that's the sort of franchise that I would expect to hold onto the pretense of suspense and never let go.

 

[Unbeatable]

As an aside, what was the rationale for telling Wolverine that they also had to rescue Magneto because they needed his help to stop Mystique? He did absolutely nothing except fuck everything up and make things worse.

How about, when they got that superfast guy who can move bullets so they don't hit the people being aimed at, they just decide to leave Magneto where he is and being that guy along to stop the girl who's going to shoot a bullet at someone instead?

Probably because they didn't think it was about simply stopping a bullet but changing the mind of the shooter.

So they stopped the wrong blue person. They should've sent Wolverine back to stop Beast from turning off Xavier's powers, or at least destroy his available supply and equipment used to make that stupid plot device serum so that Xavier could read Wolverine's mind earlier and have that conversation with Wolverine's memory of Patrick Stewart and overcome his contrived wangsty bullshit. Honestly, did anyone else hate Xavier's character arc? Xavier has always been one of my least favorite characters in the X-Men mythos, and while McAvoy and Fassbender put the same effort into their acting here as they do with movies that aren't based on comic books, the writing was just irritating.

 

[Underseer]

that's not "a timeline", that's the mainstream marvel universe where that happened, and it's how he eventually got his adamantium laced skeleton back after magneto ripped it out of him back in the 90s.

Well, I hope they don't do anything like that and just take his having gotten the adamantium skeleton as a given in the next movies. We don't need pointless scenes with him running around with the useless bone claws before they put his character back.

What difference does it make if he has bone claws or adamantium-covered bone claws?

Either way, Wolverine is and has always been weak offense-wise. When he wins fights, he mostly wins fights by refusing to quit, but power-wise he really doesn't stack up to the big guns of the mutant world. Magneto can crush the hull of a submarine from halfway around the world or sling asteroids around the solar system. Ororo can level cities. Cyclops can dig a tunnel through a mountain in a matter of seconds, and it would be perfectly straight. Piotr can bench press cargo ships. Jean (after her powers go out of control) can consume suns.

Wolverine isn't interesting because he has tremendous power, he's interesting because he keeps picking himself back up no matter how badly life screws him over. His physical weakness (compared to other mutants) is what makes his inner strength more compelling.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

What difference does it make if he has bone claws or adamantium-covered bone claws?

Because the adamantium claws are an integral part of the character's identity. It's the same as if they had an arc in Thor IV about how he lost his hammer and has to figure out how to be noble to get it back. They already did that bit.

Either way, Wolverine is and has always been weak offense-wise. When he wins fights, he mostly wins fights by refusing to quit, but power-wise he really doesn't stack up to the big guns of the mutant world. Magneto can crush the hull of a submarine from halfway around the world or sling asteroids around the solar system. Ororo can level cities. Cyclops can dig a tunnel through a mountain in a matter of seconds, and it would be perfectly straight. Piotr can bench press cargo ships. Jean (after her powers go out of control) can consume suns.

Wolverine isn't interesting because he has tremendous power, he's interesting because he keeps picking himself back up no matter how badly life screws him over. His physical weakness (compared to other mutants) is what makes his inner strength more compelling.

Also, it's interesting how he has those cool adamantium claws and not something lame like some useless bone claws.

 

[paladin.oa]

that's not "a timeline", that's the mainstream marvel universe where that happened, and it's how he eventually got his adamantium laced skeleton back after magneto ripped it out of him back in the 90s.

Well, I hope they don't do anything like that and just take his having gotten the adamantium skeleton as a given in the next movies. We don't need pointless scenes with him running around with the useless bone claws before they put his character back.

What difference does it make if he has bone claws or adamantium-covered bone claws?

Either way, Wolverine is and has always been weak offense-wise. When he wins fights, he mostly wins fights by refusing to quit, but power-wise he really doesn't stack up to the big guns of the mutant world. Magneto can crush the hull of a submarine from halfway around the world or sling asteroids around the solar system. Ororo can level cities. Cyclops can dig a tunnel through a mountain in a matter of seconds, and it would be perfectly straight. Piotr can bench press cargo ships. Jean (after her powers go out of control) can consume suns.

Wolverine isn't interesting because he has tremendous power, he's interesting because he keeps picking himself back up no matter how badly life screws him over. His physical weakness (compared to other mutants) is what makes his inner strength more compelling.

Some of that comes with the fact that he's harder to kill than a radiated cockroach.

 

[Shadowy Man]

What difference does it make if he has bone claws or adamantium-covered bone claws?

Well, to those people reading the X-Men during the 70s and 80s, when Wolverine's claws were often drawn like swords and when his claws worked even when his mutant powers were negated, it came as a massive shock when all of a sudden he had bone claws. It was a major retcon that put off a lot of people from the X-Men, myself included. It was not long after that happened that I stopped collecting comics. So, it made a big difference to some people...

 

[Underseer]

What difference does it make if he has bone claws or adamantium-covered bone claws?

Well, to those people reading the X-Men during the 70s and 80s, when Wolverine's claws were often drawn like swords and when his claws worked even when his mutant powers were negated, it came as a massive shock when all of a sudden he had bone claws. It was a major retcon that put off a lot of people from the X-Men, myself included. It was not long after that happened that I stopped collecting comics. So, it made a big difference to some people...

I had already stopped reading comics by that point, so maybe I'm missing the point, but what's the big deal? Sabertooth misses nothing by having natural claws and he has practically the same power set as Logan. And don't Logan's healing abilities become stronger when they don't have to fight off internal poisoning from all that adamantium?

 

[marc]

What difference does it make if he has bone claws or adamantium-covered bone claws?

Well, to those people reading the X-Men during the 70s and 80s, when Wolverine's claws were often drawn like swords and when his claws worked even when his mutant powers were negated, it came as a massive shock when all of a sudden he had bone claws. It was a major retcon that put off a lot of people from the X-Men, myself included. It was not long after that happened that I stopped collecting comics. So, it made a big difference to some people...

I had already stopped reading comics by that point, so maybe I'm missing the point, but what's the big deal? Sabertooth misses nothing by having natural claws and he has practically the same power set as Logan. And don't Logan's healing abilities become stronger when they don't have to fight off internal poisoning from all that adamantium?

True, not having to deal with adamantium poisoning should make him healthier, and a lot lighter. Though now his bones can be broken or cut. With bone claws they can be broken off (Shadow Cat was shown once that she carried around one of the severed claws) and they become greatly limited on what they can cut. No more slicing robots in two, or cutting open steel doors.


Sabertooth has been greatly powered up since his introduction. He started off as a Power Man villain, but got his ass kicked when he realized his claws couldn't cut Power Man. Years later he is beating up Rogue with no problem.

 

[Unbeatable]

True, not having to deal with adamantium poisoning should make him healthier, and a lot lighter. Though now his bones can be broken or cut. With bone claws they can be broken off (Shadow Cat was shown once that she carried around one of the severed claws) and they become greatly limited on what they can cut. No more slicing robots in two, or cutting open steel doors.

Which is of course a significant problem in stories which, being aimed at children, don't allow him to simply cut living people. When content restrictions prevent him from showing off his claws in the most reasonable way, and the weakness of his claws prevents him from showing them off in other ways, the claws become useless. Granted, there's no reason why his bones or bone claws have to be weak. Superhumanly strong bones and sharp claws could've just been made part of his power. But then, giving him the hardship was probably half the point of taking out the adamantium in the first place.