Derec
Contributor
You leftists are still pretending that Islam is better than Christianity?
The idea of "Islamoleftism", of there being an alliance between Leftism and Islamism, gets confirmed more every day.
Yet another war, this time with Iran
- Thread starter Jason Harvestdancer
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The idea of "Islamoleftism", of there being an alliance between Leftism and Islamism, gets confirmed more every day.
laughing dog
Contributor
Islam is a religion, Muslim is a person. Christianity is a religion, Christian is a person.
Whether or not a Person adhering to religion X behaves better than another Person adhering to religion Y does not necessarily make religion X better than religion Y. Which makes your passive aggressive point illogical.
Jarhyn
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Personally I see ZERO difference between what human nature in the US is doing with religion and what human nature in Iran is doing with religion.
It's just a matter of how far along one is on the track vs the other, with regards to theocracy.
TV and credit cards
Contributor
But should the evil Iranian regime fall, any potentially kinder and gentler one will need revenue from their energy infrastructure coming in if they hope to make a go of it. In this, hellfire is not an option.
crazyfingers
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Shadowy Man
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Of course they can’t, Trump obliterated that capability last summer. Sheesh…
You should post this in the joke thread. It's the funniest thing I've read in quite a while.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Islam isn't one thing. Christianity isn't one thing. Historically they've been interchangeable imho.
Both are for radical egalitarianism, respect for the lowliest member of the community and also extremely intolerant. Same same
It's just that the west is riding on a wave of western imperial domination, which makes it so much easier to be a nice person. It's good to be rich. Now the world is in a reset where the previous disproportionally powerful "Christian" nations are trying to deal with the non-Christian part of the world re-asserting itself. In that, cultural revolution, of a context, we can easily read way too much into what religion people have. The context is way more important.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
To me Islam, Christianity, and Judaism are generally the same in that they range from liberal to moderate to conservative to wacky extremes.
The main issue is that in Islam by scripture there is no separation of church and state. There have been reform movements in Islam.
With the rise of modern Italy the RCC got bottled up in the Vatican defanged of its ability to use force. The popes still presume to tell the world what to do.
Look at the World Cup in Qatar. People wearing colors supporting gays were harassed and arrested. You could not pay me to live in any Mid East Muslim state.
To me gay rights is the canary in the coal mine. It indicates overall freedoms.
And in the news, Trump is blaming Netanyahu for escalating the war.
The main issue is that in Islam by scripture there is no separation of church and state. There have been reform movements in Islam.
With the rise of modern Italy the RCC got bottled up in the Vatican defanged of its ability to use force. The popes still presume to tell the world what to do.
Look at the World Cup in Qatar. People wearing colors supporting gays were harassed and arrested. You could not pay me to live in any Mid East Muslim state.
To me gay rights is the canary in the coal mine. It indicates overall freedoms.
And in the news, Trump is blaming Netanyahu for escalating the war.
steve_bank
Diabetic retinopathy and poor eyesight. Typos ...
Don't want to derail to Israel but.
Israeli Zionist say they have a right to what was Israel 2000 years ago because it is was given by god.
The conflict rests on Israel taking Palestinian land. Period. It as been a long runnign cultural genocide.
Israel has all but destroyed the ability of Palestinians to exist as a people.
A Muslim PAC and propaganda campaign? Nothing like the political influence Israel has over here.
Saudi Arabia is trying to change its mage of an extreme conservative Muslim stat6e. Started a golf tour by buying global golf pros, it was controversial. Auto racing.
Old news. You can have Islam. In contrast Christianity has evolved. Isreral led the USA on gay rights.
Coming to Saudi Arabia: The world's first women-only city
The super-patriarchal Gulf kingdom is creating a female-only city to finally allow a huge percentage of its educated population to work freely
theweek.com
Jimmy Higgins
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Christianity has evolved but it has been dragged yelling and screaming since the 19th century. Christians are both the source of progress and bigotry. Proving it ain't the religion, it is the people.
laughing dog
Contributor
Excuse me, but only those on the road need an off ramp.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
People keep saying that. But it's utter bunk. There absolutely is a separation of church and state in Islam. It's just that that separation has a different history and looks slightly different.
Historically in Islam, the caliph = secular power. Ulama = religious power.
Just like in the Christian world the caliph had total power, as long as they didn't stray too far, then the imams would grab the caliph by the balls. If he didn't obey, he would be replaced. It happened many times.
Officially there was no separation of church and state. Officially the caliph was both head of the religious community as well as the state. Very similar to how the king is head of the Church of England in England. Nobody thinks the UK is lacking in their separation of church and state.
Yes, there's been many reform movements in Islam. For example, the Abassid revolution in 747 is a virtual carbon copy of the Christan reformation. Just predating it by 750 years.
The biggest difference between Islam and Christianity IMHO is that industrialisation happened in the west and have had more time to influence the culture. And that's it.
There's so many human rights that are directly linked to wealth. Back when everyone lived in grinding poverty we all needed to be laser focused on growing enough food and having babies and keeping them alive. Everybody needs to help out and pull in the same direction. The fight over meagre resources was real. In that world being gay is a direct threat to the survival of the family. It was a luxury that couldn't be afforded. Women's rights was simply not practical. Women's rights is a direct result of automation and we not needing everyone all the time relentlessly grinding just to survive. There's so many examples like this.
Trump doesn't strike me as the self reflective type
DrZoidberg
Contributor
Do not confuse Iran with traditional Islam. It's not. It's not even traditional Shia. It's got to do with the Safavid takeover of Iran in the 16'th century. It's a weird mix Islam, Zoroastrianism and Tengrism. It's mostly the result of the Safavids understanding that there was no way they could threaten the Ottoman caliph, so needed their own version of Islam in order to be able to split. Very similar to how Catholicism split from Orthodox Christianity. The Byzantine emperor needed the Christian church to be more cooperative when it came to raising troops, (to fight the Muslims) something the patriarch in Rome didn't care about.
This is all politics. Very little religion. But it came to have great consequences for us today. In Iranian style Shia Islam, it is correct that there's no separation between church and state. But this only started happening after 1979. Before this Shia Islam had just the same split between church and state as the rest of the Muslim world has always had. But the unique structure of the Ulama the Safavids set in place, gave the Ayatollah the ability to seize power in 1979.
And modern Sunni countries have no problem separating religion from secular govornment. They never have. So I don't understand why this keeps being brought up.
This is all politics. Very little religion. But it came to have great consequences for us today. In Iranian style Shia Islam, it is correct that there's no separation between church and state. But this only started happening after 1979. Before this Shia Islam had just the same split between church and state as the rest of the Muslim world has always had. But the unique structure of the Ulama the Safavids set in place, gave the Ayatollah the ability to seize power in 1979.
And modern Sunni countries have no problem separating religion from secular govornment. They never have. So I don't understand why this keeps being brought up.
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Jimmy Higgins
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This seems a tad off. Women were contributing to science breakthroughs in the late 19th century, the first "computers". Women would be included in the dirty and laborious efforts to gather celestial data. Cecilia Payne discovers what stars are made thanks to other breakthroughs in Quantum Mechanics, but she is restricted from any position of educational authority in Boston colleges until she is nearly dead. That had nothing to do with the lack of automation. Much like how blacks scientists and engineers were involved with technological breakthroughs in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, however, they too were held back as a secondary caste. Again, not because of a lack of "automation". Black women helped the US get to the Moon!
DrZoidberg
Contributor
The automation began in 1500 using water wheels. Water powered smithing hammers. Then it kept building from there. The mid 18'th to 19th century we had a cataclysm of social change in the western world because of breakthroughs in automation. You're talking about events on the other side of that social revolution. No, shit women managed to do all those things then. That's what automation allowed to happen. It was also automation that led to slavery being abolished. High tech farm machinery requires willing participants who are making an effort to make the machines run efficiently.
Jimmy Higgins
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Cataclysm in the sense of great resistance to, right?
Also, I'd say the fall of Constaninople led more of the move forward in the 1500s than automation.
Allowed to happen? In the sense that these women had to fight and scrape twenty times as hard to manage such progress with -100% of the credit?
HAW! Slavery was trending on the outs until Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin. Automation made slavery more viable again.
TSwizzle
I am unburdened by what has been.
Oh give over with the islam egalitarianism nonsense. islam is and always has been about expansionism and subjugation of the non believer.
The West has enjoyed a technological advantage over islam and its followers, keeping them on the backfoot for much of the last 150 years or so. The tide may well be turning now that there is a fifth column (in the form of mass migration of muslims and radical leftists) in many Western European countries.
crazyfingers
Meow
Trump is a piece of shit. Calling NATO allies cowards. He's fucking slime.
DrZoidberg
Contributor
I don't know what to say. You’re not paying attention to what I am saying. Yes, that's absolutely what Islam is about. Its also about radical egalitarianism among Muslims.
If you struggle with understanding now, I don't know how to put it in simple terms for you
I think western leftist offer suffer the delusion that we're rich and brown people are poor, so we need to be extra nice to them and tolerate bad behaviour, because they don't know better.
Its incredibly arrogant, as well as outdated. That was true 1960. Today the west is no longer as utterly dominant as we used to be. We no longer need to help brown people. They're today doing just fine without western aid