Yet another war, this time with Iran

[Harry Bosch]

A stronger Russia would be an incredible resource trading partner, a hedge against China, and would better safeguard their nukes. The west desperately wants to trade with Russia. But stopping the war that they caused is issue number one.

But Europe aligned with US and are a part of NATO. How can they have good relations with Russia? Did Europe not help in destabilization in Ukraine?
Fun, "we did it in Yugoslavia, we will do it again in Ukraine".

I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. Again, just look at a map. The west wants trade with Russia and a hedge against our real threat, China. Russia is awash with natural resources, more than any country in the world. Before they invaded Ukraine, there were tons of trading agreements set up with Russia and trade routes. Have you ever heard of Nord Stream as one example. Most of the Eastern European countries are really bitter rivals with Ukraine. With family members in Poland, we follow Poland tightly. But the number one threat to prosperity for all the European countries is war with Russia. So of course, all the countries will band together against a common threat. The real threat to the west (maybe more of an economic threat) is China. The sooner Russia can be brought to the negotiating table to end this war the better it would be for all parties.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That proves my point - there is a choice.

Sometime there is none. Why did Israel attack Gaza? I don't think they did it for fun. Why did US attack Iran? Because they could. That was partly for oil and partly for fun.

Partly for fun? I'm not sure what news you have access to, but I assume that you heard of the Hamas attack of October 7?

Regarding the US attacking Iran, I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that Trump cares about Israel (could ever identify it on a map?)? That just seems unsupported by the evidence.

I think Netanyahu was able to persuade Trump to do "What no other President had the courage to do" and "defeat the Iranian theocracy for good".

 

[Harry Bosch]

That proves my point - there is a choice.

Sometime there is none. Why did Israel attack Gaza? I don't think they did it for fun. Why did US attack Iran? Because they could. That was partly for oil and partly for fun.

Partly for fun? I'm not sure what news you have access to, but I assume that you heard of the Hamas attack of October 7?

Regarding the US attacking Iran, I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that Trump cares about Israel (could ever identify it on a map?)? That just seems unsupported by the evidence.

I think Netanyahu was able to persuade Trump to do "What no other President had the courage to do" and "defeat the Iranian theocracy for good".

I could be wrong, but I think that Aupmanyav is confusing Gaza attack with Iran attack. Israel invaded Gaza due to October 7 Hamas invasion. Israel didn't attack for fun. The Iran attack (two years later) is totally different. I really don't know why Trump attacked Iran. Israel was going to attack, he wanted to join in. Clearly, he thought that Iran would collapse, and happiness and goodness would magically occur in Iran.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That proves my point - there is a choice.

Sometime there is none. Why did Israel attack Gaza? I don't think they did it for fun. Why did US attack Iran? Because they could. That was partly for oil and partly for fun.

Partly for fun? I'm not sure what news you have access to, but I assume that you heard of the Hamas attack of October 7?

Regarding the US attacking Iran, I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that Trump cares about Israel (could ever identify it on a map?)? That just seems unsupported by the evidence.

I think Netanyahu was able to persuade Trump to do "What no other President had the courage to do" and "defeat the Iranian theocracy for good".

I could be wrong, but I think that Aupmanyav is confusing Gaza attack with Iran attack. Israel invaded Gaza due to October 7 Hamas invasion. Israel didn't attack for fun.

Agreed.

The Iran attack (two years later) is totally different. I really don't know why Trump attacked Iran.

I think my interpretation follows the data points well. Netanyahu sold him a bridge in New York City about being the President to finally end the Iranian regime. (I doubt we'll ever see that proven, but it matches the facts such as there was absolutely no plan post initial bombardment and what we know about the internal reaction to the plan in the White House from the NYT). Trump appeared to be the only person in his Admin to buy it (half are anti-Semites that only support the land of Israel for Armageddon purposes, and the remaining understood the plan to be absolute crap and impossible).

Israel was going to attack, he wanted to join in.

Israel's attack, if any IMO, would have been largely restrained without the US. They would have gone through missile defense munitions quickly had they killed the Iranian leadership without US support. Netanyahu needed the US for defensive backup.

Clearly, he thought that Iran would collapse, and happiness and goodness would magically occur in Iran.

It reminds of Afghanistan. That was a 'piece of cake', so Iraq... here we go. For Trump, it was some weakass shit in Venezuela and so Iran would be easy with bombs too. The main difference between the two, the Neocons had deluded themselves into how Iraq would go. No one but Trump (maybe Netanyahu) believed this would work.

 

[Harry Bosch]

That proves my point - there is a choice.

Sometime there is none. Why did Israel attack Gaza? I don't think they did it for fun. Why did US attack Iran? Because they could. That was partly for oil and partly for fun.

Partly for fun? I'm not sure what news you have access to, but I assume that you heard of the Hamas attack of October 7?

Regarding the US attacking Iran, I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that Trump cares about Israel (could ever identify it on a map?)? That just seems unsupported by the evidence.

I think Netanyahu was able to persuade Trump to do "What no other President had the courage to do" and "defeat the Iranian theocracy for good".

I could be wrong, but I think that Aupmanyav is confusing Gaza attack with Iran attack. Israel invaded Gaza due to October 7 Hamas invasion. Israel didn't attack for fun.

Agreed.

The Iran attack (two years later) is totally different. I really don't know why Trump attacked Iran.

I think my interpretation follows the data points well. Netanyahu sold him a bridge in New York City about being the President to finally end the Iranian regime. (I doubt we'll ever see that proven, but it matches the facts such as there was absolutely no plan post initial bombardment and what we know about the internal reaction to the plan in the White House from the NYT). Trump appeared to be the only person in his Admin to buy it (half are anti-Semites that only support the land of Israel for Armageddon purposes, and the remaining understood the plan to be absolute crap and impossible).

Israel was going to attack, he wanted to join in.

Israel's attack, if any IMO, would have been largely restrained without the US. They would have gone through missile defense munitions quickly had they killed the Iranian leadership without US support. Netanyahu needed the US for defensive backup.

Clearly, he thought that Iran would collapse, and happiness and goodness would magically occur in Iran.

It reminds of Afghanistan. That was a 'piece of cake', so Iraq... here we go. For Trump, it was some weakass shit in Venezuela and so Iran would be easy with bombs too. The main difference between the two, the Neocons had deluded themselves into how Iraq would go. No one but Trump (maybe Netanyahu) believed this would work.

I agree with you 1,000%. This was colossal mistake by Trump. Yes, Iran is a bad country that supports terrorists in Gaza and Lebanon. Yes, in a perfect world, we don't want Iran to get nukes. They are too dangerous and wreckless. However, this action has undermined the international rules of law and had made Iran much stronger today. Their control of the strait makes them far more powerful. I hear that they are now demanding that Amazon and other western tech companies start paying tolls due to their internet cables in the strait.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I didn't realize that was a thing. I did hear on NPR a month or so ago about the choke line through there for fiber communication. Some are looking at connecting eastern Asia to Norway by going through the much shorter... but a tad bit more complicated Arctic path.

 

[laughing dog]

A stronger Russia would be an incredible resource trading partner, a hedge against China, and would better safeguard their nukes. The west desperately wants to trade with Russia. But stopping the war that they caused is issue number one.

But Europe aligned with US and are a part of NATO. How can they have good relations with Russia? Did Europe not help in destabilization in Ukraine?

Europe had improving relations until the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Ukraine was destabilizing by itself. Russia had been the major source of “destabilization” in Ukraine for almost a century (if not more).

Fun, "we did it in Yugoslavia, we will do it again in Ukraine". Who suffered? The Ukrainians.

You realize you describe Russia’s behavior.

 

[aupmanyav]

So of course, all the countries will band together against a common threat. The real threat to the west (maybe more of an economic threat) is China. The sooner Russia can be brought to the negotiating table to end this war the better it would be for all parties.

Where is the common threat? It is only when Europe bands with USA. Don't be a slave to US.

 

[laughing dog]

So of course, all the countries will band together against a common threat. The real threat to the west (maybe more of an economic threat) is China. The sooner Russia can be brought to the negotiating table to end this war the better it would be for all parties.

Where is the common threat? It is only when Europe bands with USA. Don't be a slave to US.

Pretty ironic coming from a slave to Russian propaganda.

 

[aupmanyav]

Regarding the US attacking Iran, I'm sorry, but are you suggesting that Trump cares about Israel (could ever identify it on a map?)? That just seems unsupported by the evidence.
I think Netanyahu was able to persuade Trump to do "What no other President had the courage to do" and "defeat the Iranian theocracy for good".

He does care for Israel. Jewish vote is important. Maga Christians are impressed by it. And then, it was his greed for controlling Iran oil. That is independent of what Netanyahu may have told him.

I really don't know why Trump attacked Iran. Israel was going to attack, he wanted to join in. Clearly, he thought that Iran would collapse, and happiness and goodness would magically occur in Iran.

No. I am not confused. Ah, you mean he was worried about happiness of Iran people? He went there for oil.

Netanyahu needed the US for defensive backup.

Sure, US could have continued to help Israel, but greed for oil made Trump jump in.

 

[ZiprHead]

So of course, all the countries will band together against a common threat. The real threat to the west (maybe more of an economic threat) is China. The sooner Russia can be brought to the negotiating table to end this war the better it would be for all parties.

Where is the common threat?

Lat 55.751244, Lon 37.618423

It is only when Europe bands with USA. Don't be a slave to US.

Wow. You must think the governments in Europe are really stupid.

 

[aupmanyav]

Yes, Iran is a bad country that supports terrorists in Gaza and Lebanon. Yes, in a perfect world, we don't want Iran to get nukes. They are too dangerous and wreckless. However, this action has undermined the international rules of law and had made Iran much stronger today. Their control of the strait makes them far more powerful. I hear that they are now demanding that Amazon and other western tech companies start paying tolls due to their internet cables in the strait.

Now, Israel also is not a 'washed in milk' country with the history of a century of oppressing Palestinians and taking away there land. Sooner of later Iran will get the nukes, whatever Israel and US may do. This war is never going to end, Israel is fighting a religion, not any particular country. Pakistan saved Iran aircrafts. It is not agreeing to Abraham Accord.

Wow. You must think the governments in Europe are really stupid.

Yeah, I do not think they face any danger from Russia. Banding together with US (NATO) creates the danger.

 

[ZiprHead]

Wow. You must think the governments in Europe are really stupid.

Yeah, I do not think they face any danger from Russia. Banding together with US (NATO) creates the danger.

That's like saying that putting locks on doors and windows is being hostile to known thieving neighbors.

Can you name any country NATO has invaded and tried to steal? Russia has done it plenty of times.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yes, Iran is a bad country that supports terrorists in Gaza and Lebanon. Yes, in a perfect world, we don't want Iran to get nukes. They are too dangerous and wreckless. However, this action has undermined the international rules of law and had made Iran much stronger today. Their control of the strait makes them far more powerful. I hear that they are now demanding that Amazon and other western tech companies start paying tolls due to their internet cables in the strait.

Now, Israel also is not a 'washed in milk' country with the history of a century of oppressing Palestinians and taking away there land. Sooner of later Iran will get the nukes, whatever Israel and US may do. This war is never going to end, Israel is fighting a religion, not any particular country. Pakistan saved Iran aircrafts. It is not agreeing to Abraham Accord.

Wow. You must think the governments in Europe are really stupid.

Yeah, I do not think they face any danger from Russia. Banding together with US (NATO) creates the danger.

What NATO countries has Russia recently invaded? What non-Nato countries has Russia recently invaded? Do you see a pattern?