Young black woman gunned down in her own home by police. No charges made against police.

[Worldtraveller]

Icing on the cake:

https://twitter.com/KYFOP614/status/1243557106487361536

FTP (and anyone who continues to spout apologia for them)

 

[Emily Lake]

Jesus fucking christ.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Irrelevant to the issue that it is an impossible situation.

While the odds of a no-knock warrant going seriously bad are a lot lower it's a matter of chance whether they do, not something the police can control.

The police make choices on how they enter, whether or when they announce themselves and how they react to situations. Your response is your usual knee-jerk apologia for the police whenever they kill someone. It is disgraceful.

You still don't get it--I'm not saying to accept the situation, I'm saying to address the root issue, not try to patch what can't be fixed.

 

[laughing dog]

Irrelevant to the issue that it is an impossible situation.

While the odds of a no-knock warrant going seriously bad are a lot lower it's a matter of chance whether they do, not something the police can control.

The police make choices on how they enter, whether or when they announce themselves and how they react to situations. Your response is your usual knee-jerk apologia for the police whenever they kill someone. It is disgraceful.

You still don't get it--I'm not saying to accept the situation, I'm saying to address the root issue, not try to patch what can't be fixed.

So, you are basically admitting you are not addressing the actual OP content. Getting rid of drug raids or no knock warrants does not address this tragedy or its aftermath - it is shifting the goalposts.

I do get that you are tacitly absolving the officers with rhetoric like "impossible situation".

 

[Derec]

I do get that you are tacitly absolving the officers with rhetoric like "impossible situation".

They came under fire (one of them was wounded) and returned fire. What would you have done? Let him kill you?

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

I do get that you are tacitly absolving the officers with rhetoric like "impossible situation".

They came under fire (one of them was wounded) and returned fire. What would you have done? Let him kill you?

Randomly shoot inside the house/apartment building and not take cover. That always works.

 

[laughing dog]

I do get that you are tacitly absolving the officers with rhetoric like "impossible situation".

They came under fire (one of them was wounded) and returned fire. What would you have done? Let him kill you?

Given they had burst into a home unannounced, I think retreating and yelling "police" instead of killing an innocent bystander would be a better choice. The police are paid to take risks - it is part of their job. They initiated this fiasco. FFS, they didn't even hit the shooter.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You still don't get it--I'm not saying to accept the situation, I'm saying to address the root issue, not try to patch what can't be fixed.

So, you are basically admitting you are not addressing the actual OP content. Getting rid of drug raids or no knock warrants does not address this tragedy or its aftermath - it is shifting the goalposts.

I do get that you are tacitly absolving the officers with rhetoric like "impossible situation".

I'm saying the OP is missing the fact that the problem is systematic, not a few bad apples. Addressing this case will do nothing about the real problem.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I do get that you are tacitly absolving the officers with rhetoric like "impossible situation".

They came under fire (one of them was wounded) and returned fire. What would you have done? Let him kill you?

Given they had burst into a home unannounced, I think retreating and yelling "police" instead of killing an innocent bystander would be a better choice. The police are paid to take risks - it is part of their job. They initiated this fiasco. FFS, they didn't even hit the shooter.

Retreating and yelling police would likely be suicide if there were bad guys there who intended to shoot at the police.

The only real answer is to not be in the situation in the first place.

 

[Don2 (Don1 Revised)]

Given they had burst into a home unannounced, I think retreating and yelling "police" instead of killing an innocent bystander would be a better choice. The police are paid to take risks - it is part of their job. They initiated this fiasco. FFS, they didn't even hit the shooter.

Retreating and yelling police would likely be suicide if there were bad guys there who intended to shoot at the police.

The only real answer is to not be in the situation in the first place.

Bullshit. In the military we learned about camouflage, concealment, and cover. We also learned how far bullets go through certain materials, like dirt, for example. You are claiming that police do not have similar training, including training on cover. They may even be wearing vests, helmets and have large armored things with them in addition to hiding behind walls and environmental barriers of sufficient depth to stop bullets. This isn't a video game, Loren. Police are informed, supplied, and come prepared. That's why none of them died but an innocent person did.

 

[laughing dog]

Given they had burst into a home unannounced, I think retreating and yelling "police" instead of killing an innocent bystander would be a better choice. The police are paid to take risks - it is part of their job. They initiated this fiasco. FFS, they didn't even hit the shooter.

Retreating and yelling police would likely be suicide if there were bad guys there who intended to shoot at the police.

First, I say bullshit. Retreating means going away from the action. Which means away from the shooting. Second, it is a risk they are paid to take. Third, at least they are not killing innocent civilians.

The only real answer is to not be in the situation in the first place.

That is not a real answer to the actual situation. Nor is a real answer until there are no knock warrants. As long as there are no knock warrants or gung ho police, society needs to hold the police accountable instead of saying "Oh well, it cannot be help because they were in an impossible situation". Because that situation is not impossible.

 

[Arctish]

First, I say bullshit. Retreating means going away from the action. Which means away from the shooting.

Yeah, I really don't understand what Loren thinks retreating and yelling police would mean.

The police would have exited the building and set up a perimeter. They would have called in a negotiator. It would have been quickly established that the couple thought they were being attacked by murderous criminals and were only trying to defend themselves, that the person the cops were looking for wasn't in the their home, and there was no need for anyone to die.

I guess Loren thinks forcing open a door and charging into a home at night is only dangerous if you tell the homeowners you're a police officer.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

First, I say bullshit. Retreating means going away from the action. Which means away from the shooting.

Yeah, I really don't understand what Loren thinks retreating and yelling police would mean.

The police would have exited the building and set up a perimeter. They would have called in a negotiator. It would have been quickly established that the couple thought they were being attacked by murderous criminals and were only trying to defend themselves, that the person the cops were looking for wasn't in the their home, and there was no need for anyone to die.

I guess Loren thinks forcing open a door and charging into a home at night is only dangerous if you tell the homeowners you're a police officer.

If you can establish a perimeter, fine. The problem is that retreating while someone is shooting at you is likely to get you shot.

 

[laughing dog]

First, I say bullshit. Retreating means going away from the action. Which means away from the shooting.

Yeah, I really don't understand what Loren thinks retreating and yelling police would mean.

The police would have exited the building and set up a perimeter. They would have called in a negotiator. It would have been quickly established that the couple thought they were being attacked by murderous criminals and were only trying to defend themselves, that the person the cops were looking for wasn't in the their home, and there was no need for anyone to die.

I guess Loren thinks forcing open a door and charging into a home at night is only dangerous if you tell the homeowners you're a police officer.

If you can establish a perimeter, fine. The problem is that retreating while someone is shooting at you is likely to get you shot.

There are at least 4 reasons to think your claim is bs. They are no more likely to hit you than if you stay. It is harder to hit a moving target than a stationary one. If you are retreating, there is the possibility they stop shooting. If you shout "police", innocent homeowners are more likely to stop shooting.

 

[Arctish]

First, I say bullshit. Retreating means going away from the action. Which means away from the shooting.

Yeah, I really don't understand what Loren thinks retreating and yelling police would mean.

The police would have exited the building and set up a perimeter. They would have called in a negotiator. It would have been quickly established that the couple thought they were being attacked by murderous criminals and were only trying to defend themselves, that the person the cops were looking for wasn't in the their home, and there was no need for anyone to die.

I guess Loren thinks forcing open a door and charging into a home at night is only dangerous if you tell the homeowners you're a police officer.

If you can establish a perimeter, fine. The problem is that retreating while someone is shooting at you is likely to get you shot.

Bullshit, Loren.

Pure unadulterated bullshit.

But I expected no less.

 

[J842P]

Charges are being dropped against Kenneth Walter:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/22/us/Breonna-Taylor-Kenneth-Walker.html

Mr. Wine’s decision to drop charges came one day after Mr. Eggert filed a motion to dismiss the case, arguing that prosecutors failed to present a full and fair picture to the grand jury. Specifically, Mr. Eggert contended that they neglected to present Mr. Walker’s claim that he was acting in self-defense.

Mr. Wine said he disagreed with Mr. Eggert’s contention that prosecutors acted unethically but he agreed that more information should have been presented to the grand jury that indicted Mr. Walker on March 19, including Mr. Walker’s statement to the police in the early morning hours after the shooting.

Mr. Wine said that it has been his practice in other cases to allow defendants to present evidence that they were acting in self-defense during a shooting.

“I’ve allowed that for police officers in shooting cases,” Mr. Wine said, “and it should be allowed for civilians.”

The prosecutors’ request to drop the charges must be approved by a judge. Mr. Wine said he would not rule out the possibility of filing charges again after the F.B.I. and other agencies had completed their reviews of the shooting.

...

“The decision not to pursue Walker’s prosecution at this time, despite a grand jury indictment, suggests that the officers’ credibility and version of events is in question,” said Cortney E. Lollar, a law professor at the University of Kentucky. “The fact that Wine seems to be waiting for independent investigators to review the case further indicates that the prosecutor’s office may have a lack of confidence” in the Louisville Metro Police Department’s version of what happened.

Good. Charging this guy is a travesty.

 

[southernhybrid]

Thanks for posting that the charges were dropped. I read about it, was very relieved that the charges were dropped, but did't have time to post it here. I thought it was totally outrageous that Walker was charged for trying to defend his own home and female partner, who was murdered by police in her own bed. They are the ones who committed a crime, not the innocent man who's home was entered by mistake. All police need to be held far more accountable when they make "mistakes' like this. The police in many parts of our country are out of control imo. Instead of protecting and serving the public, they are often more like thugs who shoot first and ask questions later.

 

[Rhea]

I agree SoHy. The police department (here and others) seem unable to realized that by not acknowledging errors and accepting blame when it is correctly due, they harm their own ability to carry out their jobs safely.

They break trust with the public.

And a police department that breaks trust is less effective because the public (when the department is doing something good and lawful) will not give them information, will try to avoid them, will try to get away from them. A police department that breaks trust is not serving or protecting.


When they make mistakes, they need to acknowledge that is WAS a mistake instead of trying to claim it was all proper.

And when they double down, like this police department's tweet that homeowners have no right to defend themselves against intruders who break in and kill, that breaks trust. Everyone can see that from the point of view of the civilian, this was an armed home invasion. There is NOTHING that can change that point of view. It was the wrong house. That civilian had no knowledge that it was anything other than a murderous invasion. And he acted appropriately in that context.

The police fucked up. They created that situation in which a civilian was shot to death in her bed. And for the police department to blame (and jail! And publicly judge!) the one person who didn't know what was going on is a breaking of trust. An innocent person is DEAD and the LMPD reaction is to say they had a right to do it.

The LMPD has harmed all other PDs with this action.
And the fact that all other PDs don't condemn LMPD - further spreads the broken trust. If I see my PD publicly supporting LMPD in this - that breaks their trust with me, because they show that if they make a fatal error in judgment, they will blame the victims and try to harm them further (with jail), and never take the ownership necessary to change the behavior that led to this. How can you enact procedural change when you claim it wasn't your fault?

So people thousands of miles away will now distrust their police departments as well.

Nice job, LMPD. Thoroughly fucked up the situation, a person is DEAD and instead of apologizing, you blame her household.

 

[laughing dog]

I cannot help but think that the only reason these unwarranted charges were dropped was because the police killed an innocent civilian.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I cannot help but think that the only reason these unwarranted charges were dropped was because the police killed an innocent civilian.

A conviction would be unlikely, they probably would have dropped them anyway.

However, they have managed to saddle him with a murder arrest which will haunt him for the rest of his life.