Young black woman gunned down in her own home by police. No charges made against police.

[Jarhyn]

Psycic cop shoots Time Traveling Hitler defense for the cops incoming...

 

[Toni]

Don't yet if there is evidence of racism or if there is evidence of no racism.

And yet southernhybrid assumed it was. The point we were making is that just because it was a no knock raid does not mean it was racism. The original positive claim was that it was racism, not that we know it wasn't.
In other words, you were objecting to the wrong poster. As usual.

No, she just noted the race of the woman who was murdered in her own apartment.

Please note that in Trausti's article, the couple who were murdered were white and the officers were charged. One of those officers responsible for the fraudulent tip is black. The neighbor who phoned 911 with fraudulent information is Hispanic.

White people die = people of color going to jail.

Black people die = dindu crap out of racists and a whole lot of investigation into anything wrong or not 100% completely compliant the dead black person might have ever done in his or her life

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here we go again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/11/family-seeks-answers-fatal-police-shooting-louisville-woman-her-apartment/

Breonna Taylor was working as an EMT in Louisville when the coronavirus pandemic hit the country, helping to save lives while trying to protect her own.
On March 13, the 26-year-old aspiring nurse was killed in her apartment, shot at least eight times by Louisville police officers who officials have said were executing a drug warrant, according to a lawsuit filed by the family, accusing officers of wrongful death, excessive force and gross negligence.
“Not one person has talked to me. Not one person has explained anything to me,” Tamika Palmer, Taylor’s mother, said in an interview. “I want justice for her. I want them to say her name. There’s no reason Breonna should be dead at all.”
According to the lawsuit, filed April 27, Louisville police executed a search warrant at Taylor’s home, looking for a man who did not live in Taylor’s apartment complex and had already been detained when officers came to Taylor’s apartment after midnight. Taylor’s boyfriend, Kenneth Walker, was also in the apartment and, according to the lawsuit, shot at officers when they attempted to enter without announcing themselves. The lawsuit alleges that police fired more than 20 rounds of ammunition into the apartment.

So, will the usual suspects defend these incompetent, racist police?

Her boyfriend who lives with her, shot at the police, and he was arrested, despite the fact that that police never announced who they were and the young man thought that someone was trying to break into his home. Does Kentucky have a stand your ground law? Even if that's not the case, isn't it usually reasonable, at least in most states in the US, to defend yourself if you think someone is breaking in to harm you? This seems to be another potential miscarriage of justice. The man they were looking for didn't even live in the apartment and had already been detained. Shouldn't such flagrant incompetence be punished, even if the murder hadn't happened?

It appears as if it's often the police who are the real thugs, entering homes unannounced and shooting innocent victims! Yet, they often get away with murder!

None of the officers involved have been charged in connection with the shooting. Walker, a licensed gun owner who was not injured in the incident, was arrested and faces charges of first-degree assault and attempted murder of a police officer.

Sounds to me like the boyfriend was just trying to protect himself and his female partner. I don't think he should have been charged with a crime, as the police never announced themselves, but broke into the home of an innocent person with guns locked and loaded. And the suspect they thought they were after was only being charged with a drug offense. ( This is one reason why I support the decriminalization of all recreational drugs. But, that's not what my thread is about. )

Why are the police such chickenshits that they used 20 rounds to kill a young innocent woman in her own home? This shit needs to be stopped. Police that kill innocent people in their own homes need to face charges.

He shouldn't have been arrested but I'm not surprised that he was--the police take a very dim view of those who shoot at them even if they were behaving legally.

In the bigger picture--the real problem here is drug raids in the first place. When you crash into a place like that there's always a risk that the people inside won't realize they're dealing with the police and will shoot at what they see as armed intruders. Thee police should not face charges here--workers should not face the blame for errors of management. The culprit is the notion that we can barge in like that--such tactics should be reserved for hostage assaults.

We need a few law changes:

1) Get rid of the drug war. Ideally, send the top people to the wall for all the people that have died needlessly in this stupid war.

2) Change the evidence laws. Grant the police the presumption that if you destroy something as the police are coming in that the item you destroyed was what the police were seeking. Thus you make the assault with camera robots, not people.

3) Change the use of force laws. If an action would not have been legal as a civilian then it is not legal for a cop who has not been adequately identified as a cop (yelling "Police!" and crashing the door isn't enough--you wake a sleeper in the process and they won't have understood the "Police!" no matter how loud it was) or in which the imminent arrival of a cop should be expected. (Say, in a standoff. The person should expect anyone who appears on the scene to be a cop.)

 

[Toni]

Here we go again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/11/family-seeks-answers-fatal-police-shooting-louisville-woman-her-apartment/




So, will the usual suspects defend these incompetent, racist police?

Her boyfriend who lives with her, shot at the police, and he was arrested, despite the fact that that police never announced who they were and the young man thought that someone was trying to break into his home. Does Kentucky have a stand your ground law? Even if that's not the case, isn't it usually reasonable, at least in most states in the US, to defend yourself if you think someone is breaking in to harm you? This seems to be another potential miscarriage of justice. The man they were looking for didn't even live in the apartment and had already been detained. Shouldn't such flagrant incompetence be punished, even if the murder hadn't happened?

It appears as if it's often the police who are the real thugs, entering homes unannounced and shooting innocent victims! Yet, they often get away with murder!



Sounds to me like the boyfriend was just trying to protect himself and his female partner. I don't think he should have been charged with a crime, as the police never announced themselves, but broke into the home of an innocent person with guns locked and loaded. And the suspect they thought they were after was only being charged with a drug offense. ( This is one reason why I support the decriminalization of all recreational drugs. But, that's not what my thread is about. )

Why are the police such chickenshits that they used 20 rounds to kill a young innocent woman in her own home? This shit needs to be stopped. Police that kill innocent people in their own homes need to face charges.

He shouldn't have been arrested but I'm not surprised that he was--the police take a very dim view of those who shoot at them even if they were behaving legally.

In the bigger picture--the real problem here is drug raids in the first place. When you crash into a place like that there's always a risk that the people inside won't realize they're dealing with the police and will shoot at what they see as armed intruders. Thee police should not face charges here--workers should not face the blame for errors of management. The culprit is the notion that we can barge in like that--such tactics should be reserved for hostage assaults.

We need a few law changes:

1) Get rid of the drug war. Ideally, send the top people to the wall for all the people that have died needlessly in this stupid war.

2) Change the evidence laws. Grant the police the presumption that if you destroy something as the police are coming in that the item you destroyed was what the police were seeking. Thus you make the assault with camera robots, not people.

3) Change the use of force laws. If an action would not have been legal as a civilian then it is not legal for a cop who has not been adequately identified as a cop (yelling "Police!" and crashing the door isn't enough--you wake a sleeper in the process and they won't have understood the "Police!" no matter how loud it was) or in which the imminent arrival of a cop should be expected. (Say, in a standoff. The person should expect anyone who appears on the scene to be a cop.)

Of course police should face charges for murdering people in their own homes without any just cause.

Even if it's just black people.

 

[Derec]

A Trausti's argument could not possible show that there was no racism.

It did not try to prove a negative. It simply provided a counterargument against southernhybrid's assumption that police must have been racist just because the victim was black.

southernhybrid did not argue that a no knock warrant was racist.

Well, a warrant, being inanimate, cannot be racist.
But she did claim the police were racist.

So, will the usual suspects defend these incompetent, racist police?

Perhaps she has more evidence to support her view that these police are racist. Perhaps she does not. I don't know.

She certainly did not offer any. I assume "police are racist" is her go-to assumption.

So, as usual, your response is based on a lack of reading comprehension and reason.

No, yours is. As usual.

 

[southernhybrid]

So, will the usual suspects defend these incompetent, racist police?

Given that they raided the wrong house, I can give you incompetence, but why "racist"? There is no evidence that the police here were "racist". I guess that's your go-to explanation for everything.

If you think that there aren't black police, as well as other black folks, who don't have bigoted feelings toward those who are also black, I think you are wrong. I've personally known one of them myself. And, no, racism isn't my go to explanation for everything. I also witnessed in my own town, four black teenagers being pulled over and searched by the police without cause, one of whom was a black police officer. I know the mother of the boy who was driving. The young man is a fine person. He drove his car until he was in front of the restaurant where his mother is a manager, as he was very frightened.

She went outside and talked to the police. They actually told her that they were told by the head of the department to check the ID and search any car that they pull where several black males are present. The mother has a degree in law enforcement and she knew this was against federal law. Luckily, in that case, no harm was done, other than humiliating the four young men. But, to me, this is evidence that the police often judge young black men very differently than they do others, and sadly it's not only white police officers who harbor such prejudice.

And, it's possible that this had more to do with class than race. Either way, it was wrong, and the police who killed the young woman should be prosecuted, while the charges against the young man who shot at the intruders should be dropped. Even if I'm wrong and racism/prejudice had nothing to do with the reaction of the police, the police officers should be prosecuted and the charges against the young man dropped. He was simply defending himself at home. Do you honestly think that a white person from a higher socioeconomic class would be subjected to the same charges as this young black man? I am highly skeptical of that, especially when far more innocent black men are wrongly charged with crimes that they did't commit.

Of course there are times, when white people are victims of police injustice. The police are often out of control in many cities, imo. It's wrong regardless of the race of the victims, but black folks are targeted by the police a lot more often than white folks are and sadly, the race of the police officers doesn't always make a bit of difference.

 

[Derec]

You kill a lot of innocent people, a disproportionate number of whom are black.

Not disproportionate when normalized for crime rates, and not just population percentage.

And then you get the racists apologists saying that white people get killed and more black people kill other black people than white people kill black people as if that's the issue.

Pointing out facts is not racist. And you misunderstood part of it. Yes, vast majority of blacks are killed by other blacks. But it's not just that blacks kill more blacks than whites kill blacks, blacks kill twice as many whites as whites kill blacks.

But if you listen to racist, politically correct narratives you get the impression that it's exactly the opposite.

As if most of the white people who are killed are not killed by other white people

That is true, but misleading, because white people commit homicide at a rate about five times less than blacks.

but a bunch of white people are so scared of getting killed by black people

For a good reason. Twice as many white people are killed by blacks than vice versa.
That does not fit the racist, politically correct narrative of an "open season on black people", so it gets ignored or even worse, those who dare point it out are labeled "racist".

that they bleat like sheep when armed officers gun down 12 year olds playing in the park.

If you mean Tamir Rice, that was a tragedy all around. All those involved, from Tamir Rice himself to the responding officers to the dispatcher made mistakes that contributed to the tragic outcome. Also Tamir's height and weight contributed to him being perceived as older than he was.
It was a tragedy or errors, but it wasn't murder.

 

[Derec]

No, she just noted the race of the woman who was murdered in her own apartment.

Wrong. She claimed police were "racist".

So, will the usual suspects defend these incompetent, racist police?

Please note that in Trausti's article, the couple who were murdered were white and the officers were charged. One of those officers responsible for the fraudulent tip is black. The neighbor who phoned 911 with fraudulent information is Hispanic.

And they all should be charged and go to prison.

Black people die = dindu crap out of racists and a whole lot of investigation into anything wrong or not 100% completely compliant the dead black person might have ever done in his or her life

This case should be investigated. Why was the house raided? Was it an honest mistake, or was there fraud like in the case Trausti posted. If there was fraud involved that caused the house to be raided then obviously whoever was responsible should be charged with serious crimes, including felony murder.
However, police returning fire when shot at should not be criminally charged.
So you need to distinguish different things. Unfortunately, all you ever see is race.

 

[Derec]

Of course police should face charges for murdering people in their own homes without any just cause.

Returning fire when fired upon (and one of you is wounded) is NOT murder.

The bigger question should be why the house was raided at that time. Was fraud involved? Then go after that, instead of throwing innocent cops defending themselves under the bus.

Even if it's just black people.

Race should not play a role.

 

[laughing dog]

It did not try to prove a negative. It simply provided a counterargument against southernhybrid's assumption that police must have been racist just because the victim was black.

Trausti's argument focused only the no knock warrant and nothing else, so either it was even more inept or this is another example of reading comprehension failure on your part.

She certainly did not offer any. I assume "police are racist" is her go-to assumption.

Of course you do. It is easier than actually thinking.

So, as usual, your response is based on a lack of reading comprehension and reason.

No, yours is. As usual.

Your responses prove otherwise.

 

[Emily Lake]

Here we go again....

None of the officers involved have been charged in connection with the shooting. Walker, a licensed gun owner who was not injured in the incident, was arrested and faces charges of first-degree assault and attempted murder of a police officer.

You know, I could see an argument for an incompetent accident here, maybe. But I just don't see how charging him with first degree assault and attempted murder is even remotely reasonable.

 

[Emily Lake]

In general, yes. Does not mean that race was not an issue in this specific raid.

I would say that the race of the actual victims of the no-knock raid probably has nothing at all to do with this situation. It's possible that there is some bias involved regarding the race of the person they were looking for, who didn't live there, and who was already in custody. I don't know who the target actually was, nor anything about him.

 

[Emily Lake]

If you think that there aren't black police, as well as other black folks, who don't have bigoted feelings toward those who are also black, I think you are wrong...

(Trimming for length only)

That's the post pernicious and damaging aspect of implicit biases. They're not limited to just one group or the other, they're shared throughout the population. And they're by far the most difficult to shift, because most of them are completely subconscious and people don't even realize they're behaving in a biased fashion. That kind of presumptive assignation of "probably doing something wrong" for black people and "probably not on purpose" for white people is something that ends up being shared by both black people and white people.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Here we go again.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/11/family-seeks-answers-fatal-police-shooting-louisville-woman-her-apartment/




So, will the usual suspects defend these incompetent, racist police?

Her boyfriend who lives with her, shot at the police, and he was arrested, despite the fact that that police never announced who they were and the young man thought that someone was trying to break into his home. Does Kentucky have a stand your ground law? Even if that's not the case, isn't it usually reasonable, at least in most states in the US, to defend yourself if you think someone is breaking in to harm you? This seems to be another potential miscarriage of justice. The man they were looking for didn't even live in the apartment and had already been detained. Shouldn't such flagrant incompetence be punished, even if the murder hadn't happened?

It appears as if it's often the police who are the real thugs, entering homes unannounced and shooting innocent victims! Yet, they often get away with murder!



Sounds to me like the boyfriend was just trying to protect himself and his female partner. I don't think he should have been charged with a crime, as the police never announced themselves, but broke into the home of an innocent person with guns locked and loaded. And the suspect they thought they were after was only being charged with a drug offense. ( This is one reason why I support the decriminalization of all recreational drugs. But, that's not what my thread is about. )

Why are the police such chickenshits that they used 20 rounds to kill a young innocent woman in her own home? This shit needs to be stopped. Police that kill innocent people in their own homes need to face charges.

He shouldn't have been arrested but I'm not surprised that he was--the police take a very dim view of those who shoot at them even if they were behaving legally.

In the bigger picture--the real problem here is drug raids in the first place. When you crash into a place like that there's always a risk that the people inside won't realize they're dealing with the police and will shoot at what they see as armed intruders. Thee police should not face charges here--workers should not face the blame for errors of management. The culprit is the notion that we can barge in like that--such tactics should be reserved for hostage assaults.

We need a few law changes:

1) Get rid of the drug war. Ideally, send the top people to the wall for all the people that have died needlessly in this stupid war.

2) Change the evidence laws. Grant the police the presumption that if you destroy something as the police are coming in that the item you destroyed was what the police were seeking. Thus you make the assault with camera robots, not people.

3) Change the use of force laws. If an action would not have been legal as a civilian then it is not legal for a cop who has not been adequately identified as a cop (yelling "Police!" and crashing the door isn't enough--you wake a sleeper in the process and they won't have understood the "Police!" no matter how loud it was) or in which the imminent arrival of a cop should be expected. (Say, in a standoff. The person should expect anyone who appears on the scene to be a cop.)

Of course police should face charges for murdering people in their own homes without any just cause.

Even if it's just black people.

You're not addressing my point at all.

The real problem here is the drug raids. If you have drug raids you will have occasional cases like this. The officers involved are victims of being ordered to do the impossible.

 

[laughing dog]

Of course police should face charges for murdering people in their own homes without any just cause.

Even if it's just black people.

You're not addressing my point at all.

The real problem here is the drug raids. If you have drug raids you will have occasional cases like this. The officers involved are victims of being ordered to do the impossible.

How are the officers "victims"? They are not dead nor even charged. And they have apologists blaming everything and one except them for their actions.

After all, not every no knock raid ends up like this. So how can you use the "system" as an excuse while denying that analogous argument whenever someone brings up poverty as reason for poor decision-making?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Of course police should face charges for murdering people in their own homes without any just cause.

Returning fire when fired upon (and one of you is wounded) is NOT murder.

It can be murder--if you do not have the right of self defense at that point. A burglar breaks in, the homeowner shoots at the burglar--self defense. The burglar shoots back--murder.

The bigger question should be why the house was raided at that time. Was fraud involved? Then go after that, instead of throwing innocent cops defending themselves under the bus.

Yup. If there's fraud felony murder charges would be in order as far as I'm concerned.

Even if it's just black people.

Race should not play a role.

And I see no reason to think it did. We have an occupant who didn't realize it was the police coming in. What color they were is irrelevant. This is collateral damage from the drug war and can only be solved as such.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Trausti's argument focused only the no knock warrant and nothing else, so either it was even more inept or this is another example of reading comprehension failure on your part.

Of course you do. It is easier than actually thinking.

So, as usual, your response is based on a lack of reading comprehension and reason.

No, yours is. As usual.

Your responses prove otherwise.

He focused on the no-knock warrant because that's the problem. Situations like this are the rare but inevitable consequence of no-knock warrants. (And personally I think they're probably a lot more common than we think--if the raid is on target people will just assume it was bad guys who decided to shoot it out rather than figuring it might be bad guys who think they're being attacked by a different gang.)

 

[laughing dog]

Trausti's argument focused only the no knock warrant and nothing else, so either it was even more inept or this is another example of reading comprehension failure on your part.

Of course you do. It is easier than actually thinking.
Your responses prove otherwise.

He focused on the no-knock warrant because that's the problem. Situations like this are the rare but inevitable consequence of no-knock warrants. (And personally I think they're probably a lot more common than we think--if the raid is on target people will just assume it was bad guys who decided to shoot it out rather than figuring it might be bad guys who think they're being attacked by a different gang.)

Try to focus. No one argued that no knock warrants were not a problem. Trausti argued that because they are a problem in general, this specific one had nothing to do with race. Which is illogical.

 

[Trausti]

Trausti's argument focused only the no knock warrant and nothing else, so either it was even more inept or this is another example of reading comprehension failure on your part.

Of course you do. It is easier than actually thinking.
Your responses prove otherwise.

He focused on the no-knock warrant because that's the problem. Situations like this are the rare but inevitable consequence of no-knock warrants. (And personally I think they're probably a lot more common than we think--if the raid is on target people will just assume it was bad guys who decided to shoot it out rather than figuring it might be bad guys who think they're being attacked by a different gang.)

Try to focus. No one argued that no knock warrants were not a problem. Trausti argued that because they are a problem in general, this specific one had nothing to do with race. Which is illogical.

So you're saying that when White people are killed during no-knock raids it's because of their race?

 

[laughing dog]

Try to focus. No one argued that no knock warrants were not a problem. Trausti argued that because they are a problem in general, this specific one had nothing to do with race. Which is illogical.

So you're saying that when White people are killed during no-knock raids it's because of their race?

As I said earlier in the thread, your argument ignores potential facts unique to a specific event, so it is not applicable to a specific event. But to put answer your stupid straw man in terms that are less likely to be misinterpreted by you - No fucking way.