How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wow, what a morning blitz - over thirty posts full of Pootey poop from @barbos, after going missing for most of the duration of the failed Russian invasion.
Looks like the reprogramming really took!

I'd lay off this, as some of the material and links here could legitimately get him jailed. Russia is absolutely in the right... but reading or perusing other POVs or sources is restricted... you know... to protect them from nazis or whatever. Heck, they aren't even allowed to call this war a war.

But maybe this should be called Godwin's War.

 

[Elixir]

But maybe this should be called Godwin's Special Military Operation.

FIFY

some of the material and links here could legitimately get him jailed.

Sleep with the dogs, get the fleas. I wish no ill upon poor barbos, but IRL there are consequences.

 

[Jayjay]

Gee, how could that be? Maybe ... he stayed indoors and didn't see the bodies until after his statement?

for 4 days after they left? Some shy nazi mayor we have here. And Yes, piece of shit is outside in that video. Sorry dude, that video is either staged or Azov murdered pro-russians who decided to stay. And your media and politicians are lying to you.

It's typical of conspiracy theories to grasp at straws like this: that someone who "should have" seen something or said something, didn't. There are a million reasons why the mayor wasn't gushing about dead bodies on the streets in his first statements. And I'm not sure what you're referring to with "4 days after they left"? Here is an interview with the Mayor on April 4th:



In the video he clearly says that there are dead bodies on the street. That's 3-4 days after Russians left. I thought you were originally referring to his written statements on April 1st.

On the other hand, there is the actual pictures, videos, satellite images, and witness statements saying that Russia did indeed murder civilians in Bucha. And the same thing was revealed to happen in other towns. "The mayor of Bucha" argument is weak compared to all the other corroborating evidence.

Sorry, too late for that. Motherfucker is changing his story after the fact.
Once that piece of shit gets arrested he will get 15 years in russian prison.
For this interview alone.

This guy really grinds your gears ! Russian style to deal with non-compliant Ukrainian mayors seems to be torturing and killing, rather than due process.

But what did he lie or change his mind about about? You seem to be referring to some interview you saw in Russian propaganda that I'm not aware of.

And he is even lying on top of lying. There was no investigation and no identification of the bodies. They were allegedly promptly burried to hide time of death, because people pointed out that corpses looked surprisingly fresh for 4 days in the open.

So, either there were no bodies (just actors and red paint) or they were all murdered by Azov as they themselves threatened after russians left.
4 days man. This piece of shit wants us to believe that nobody noticed bodies for 4 days.

Nobody could pick up the bodies because Russians shot everyone who went out. Duh.

Don't worry, there will be a formal investigation.

 

[Jayjay]

Show me one atrocity by Ukrainian army against civilians? Just to gauge what you consider to be a level of evidence required for something to be a "fact" (or "an atrocity").

Last time I had it shown, moderators deleted it.
I mean ukrainians are not even denying it, they were proud of killing of women.

I don't need to see gory images. I just want to evaluate how strong the evidence is for it. Provide a link or explain what evidence you have.

Ukraine has committed war crimes itself, and that's not the point here. The point is that the pretzels you have to turn your brains into to accept the conspiracy theory that Bucha and other massacres are faked is so mind-boggling, that by the same standard you can't prove anything that Ukraine may or may not have not.

 

[Jarhyn]

Wow, what a morning blitz - over thirty posts full of Pootey poop from @barbos, after going missing for most of the duration of the failed Russian invasion.
Looks like the reprogramming really took!

I'd lay off this, as some of the material and links here could legitimately get him jailed. Russia is absolutely in the right... but reading or perusing other POVs or sources is restricted... you know... to protect them from nazis or whatever. Heck, they aren't even allowed to call this war a war.

But maybe this should be called Godwin's War.

I don't think Barbos is in any danger of being jailed.

With how well, and how instantly and faithfully and eloquently Barbos echoes Putin's positions, I expect Barbos getting jailed is one of the least likely things ever.

I would put Barbos's chances of being jailed about dead nuts equal to the possibility of Putin himself being jailed.

 

[steve_bank]

The Soviet playbook.

Tanks were sent to Poland to quell resistance.

The Berlin Airlift...Russia post war trued to starve West Germany into submission by closing transport..

The Russians were always 'ham fisted'. Clumsy and inept.

Berlin Blockade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Berlin Blockade (24 June 1948 – 12 May 1949) was one of the first major international crises of the Cold War. During the multinational occupation of post–World War II Germany, the Soviet Union blocked the Western Allies' railway, road, and canal access to the sectors of Berlin under Western control. The Soviets offered to drop the blockade if the Western Allies withdrew the newly introduced Deutsche Mark from West Berlin.

The Western Allies organised the Berlin Airlift (German: Berliner Luftbrücke, lit. '"Berlin Air Bridge"') from 26 June 1948 to 30 September 1949 to carry supplies to the people of West Berlin, a difficult feat given the size of the city and the population.[1][2] American and British air forces flew over Berlin more than 250,000 times, dropping necessities such as fuel and food, with the original plan being to lift 3,475 tons of supplies daily. By the spring of 1949, that number was often met twofold, with the peak daily delivery totalling 12,941 tons.[3]

Having initially concluded there was no way the airlift could work, the Soviets found its continued success an increasing embarrassment. On 12 May 1949, the USSR lifted the blockade of West Berlin, due to economic issues in East Berlin, although for a time the Americans and British continued to supply the city by air as they were worried that the Soviets would resume the blockade and were only trying to disrupt western supply lines

I heard this in a Putin bio.

To understand Putin, look to the fall of East Germany and the USSR

As the regime of his host nation fell in December 1989, Putin watched as emboldened crowds began to storm the headquarters of the secret police.

nypost.com

Vladimir Putin was a married KGB officer, living in comfort in East Germany, when the world as he knew it collapsed around him.

As the regime of his host nation fell in December 1989, Putin watched as emboldened crowds began to storm the headquarters of the secret police, along with a nearby KGB office where he and his comrades conducted their espionage.

He sought protection from a Red Army tank unit, but the commander wouldn’t help without approval from Moscow.

“And Moscow is silent,” the commander said.

It’s a phrase that has haunted Putin ever since.

“I think it’s the key to understanding Putin,” German biographer Boris Reitschuster told the BBC. “We would have another Putin and another Russia without his time in East

 

[Jayjay]

As for convicted criminals...

The site is Ukrainian, banned in Russia and 100% lie.
Everything there is a lie and ukrainian propaganda, you should know better.

It doesn't take a lot to be banned in Russia.

The information can't be verified independently, so it's not reported in reputable news, but that doesn't mean it's false. I just found it funny since you mentioned that Russian army is not a bunch of convicts.

It does not even make sense for russia to do that. There is not enough convicted criminals who can be integrated into professional army. It's propaganda garbage designed for ukrainians. that's laughable. Russian Army is professional now, you need to teach and train people for some time before sending them and expecting them to be effective.
In fact it's laughable even for Ukraine to do that. But they did it, because their regime is desperate.

Russian army is a clusterfuck and they're trying to get more people wherever they can, because Putin promised not to mobilize reservists. If they are scraping the bottom of the barrel by enlisting people from South Ossetia, Syria, and Azerbaijan, then it's not much of a stretch that they're also recruiting from prisons.

 

[Jayjay]

But my comment was referring to assassinations, not armies.

Russia is perfectly capable of precision strikies of government places in Kiev.
Whether or not Zelensky is there is irrelevant, message is relevant.
Compare what US did with Iraq. They fucking started with it.

Grozny was a couple of years before Iraq. And using massive artillery and bombing to subdue opposition has been Russian military doctrine since the Soviet days.

 

[bilby]

It's typical of conspiracy theories to grasp at straws like this: that someone who "should have" seen something or said something, didn't.

Give me a fucking break!

I understand it's hard to accept that you are the bad guys but you are.

Does anyone know how much it costs these days to send a mirror to Russia?

Asking for a friend.

 

[ZiprHead]

The United Nations calls for an investigation into violence against women and children in Ukraine – as it happened

This live blog is now closed

www.theguardian.com

Russia-Ukraine war latest: Ukrainian women and girls kept in a basement for 25 days by Russian troops, with nine now pregnant, says rights official​

 

[steve_bank]

In the news Putin has put the general who was in charge of the Russian army in Syria in carge of Ukraine.
ably used chemeicl weapoBarrel bombs were used.. Know for wholesale destruction of towns.

Here's what we know about Russia's new general for Ukraine

President Volodymyr Zelensky said Ukraine is "ready" for a major Russian offensive in the east of the country, as he accused Moscow of lying to deflect the blame for the war. Follow here for live news updates.

www.cnn.com

Russian President Vladimir Putin has a new general overseeing his war in Ukraine.

Army General Alexander Dvornikov, the commander of Russia's Southern Military District, has been named as theater commander of Russia's military campaign in Ukraine, according to a US official and a European official.

Dvornikov, 60, was the first commander of Russia's military operations in Syria, after Putin sent troops there in September 2015 to back the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad.

During Dvornikov's command in Syria from September 2015 to June 2016, Russian aircraft backed the Assad regime and its allies as they laid siege to rebel-held eastern Aleppo, bombarding densely populated neighborhoods and causing major civilian casualties. The city fell to Syrian government forces in December 2016.

From 2000 to 2003 Dvornikov served in Russia's lengthy pacification campaign in the north Caucasus, including the Second Chechen War, which left the regional capital of Chechnya, Grozny, in ruins.

Russian forces have used a similarly heavy-handed approach in parts of Ukraine, striking residential buildings in major cities and demolishing much of the Ukrainian port city of Mariupol.

Dvornikov was awarded the title of "Hero the Russian Federation" by the Kremlin in March 2016 for his services.

The appointment of a new overall commander to lead Russia's war in Ukraine appears to be an effort to remedy another problem that has hampered Russian forces: lack of coordination.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Fuck, stop acting as if it was not proven that ukrainian nazis are behind Bucha

FUCK! FUCK! FUCK! Stop acting like the murdering invaders of Ukraine are murdering, raping, and pillaging for just cause!

Even this stupid NAZI excuse is weak and pathetic.

View attachment 38089

When is Russia going to invade "liberate"this evil hotbed of NAZI activity?

Yeah, 25 year old pictures. Bill Clinton was a president and he was a big "friend" of Russia
You keep stepping in the same shit

There are more recent examples:

View attachment 38093

Or this guy:

Both example are from Donbas, the latter is from 2015 I believe. This is because FSB used Russian neo-nazis as cannon fodder early in the 2014 conflict: when arrested in Russia, they were given a choice between going to jail or to help prop up the "people's republics". Many nazis were recruited this way from ranks of RNU for example.

Both sides have a few card-carrying nazis fighting for them. Ukraine maybe more because in Russia it's not hip to openly glorify Hitler, but ideologically the Russian brand of fascism is much worse.

Well, the Russians have several nazi groups working for them. The largest is the Wagner group:

Opinion | One of the worst ways Putin is gaslighting the world on Ukraine

Putin isn’t fighting neo-Nazism. He nurtures it, making his pretext for invading Ukraine even more repellent.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Harry Bosch]

It's typical of conspiracy theories to grasp at straws like this: that someone who "should have" seen something or said something, didn't.

Give me a fucking break!

I understand it's hard to accept that you are the bad guys but you are.

Does anyone know how much it costs these days to send a mirror to Russia?

Asking for a friend.

Well, it's become a cult. The cult of Putin. There are parallels in the US for the crazy people supporting Trump via Q and the space aliens. But that group is still a minority. The cult of Putin is the dominant group in Russia. And i don't think that diplomacy is going to change their minds. The Ukrainians have to win. And the west must continue to send aid and weapons to Ukraine.

 

[Harry Bosch]

We've been seeing this trend for awhile, but Finland and Sweden are moving closer to joining NATO:

MSN

Since Barbos is back, I'd love to hear his stance of Finland and Sweden. I mean, if Russia hates NATO meanies so much, why attack non-Nato countries? That just encourages other countries to seek ways to stop Russian imperialism. Russia picks on countries that it thinks that it can bully. And he's not going to bully NATO. Putin has really united the Eastern European countries against Russia. Not sure how this is a good thing for Russia??

 

[TomC]

How many streets are named after Nazis?

One is way too many.

And for some reason I still believe the Russian reaction to a street being named after a Nazi to be a tad excessive.

The USA has a major manufacturer named for a Nazi.

Henry Ford was a Nazi. An anti-Jewish industrialist.
Adolf Hitler had a framed portrait of Ford hanging in his office.

And it wasn't just him, plenty of industrialists across Christendom supported Hitler and his Nazi party throughout the 30s and early 40s. Hitler was extremely popular, that's why he got away with so much.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

The Ukrainians have to win.

To win, Ukrainians will have to kill 5 Russians for every Ukranian killed. Russia’s biggest asset is their huge supply of expendable soldiers/citizens/conscripts.
Even at that rate it will take years. Unless they can kick Russia out of Crimea and the East real quick, how can they “win”?

 

[Harry Bosch]

The Ukrainians have to win.

To win, Ukrainians will have to kill 5 Russians for every Ukranian killed. Russia’s biggest asset is their huge supply of expendable soldiers/citizens/conscripts.
Even at that rate it will take years. Unless they can kick Russia out of Crimea and the East real quick, how can they “win”?

Well, it's a little bit less than this ratio. Common military reports state that it takes about 5 offenders vs every 1 defender to take a well defended area. The Russians don't have this many troops. Yes, they are importing Syrians and Nazi merks (like Wagner). But they will run out of troops eventually. I don't believe that Ukraine will be able to take Crimea. But (and this is a tragedy for Ukraine); Ukrainians win by just surviving. It's going to be a battle of the wills. But here's the difference, the Russians can just go home when they lose their will. The Ukrainians are fighting in their home. They have no choice. Ukrainians win by persevering their state.

On the other hand, the Russians already lost. They attacked in order to split Nato in half and convince the other eastern European countries to turn towards Russia. That's been an absolute failure.

 

[Elixir]

… they will run out of troops eventually.

Agreed … eventually. IF that kill ratio is maintained for long enough. And meanwhile tens or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian civilians are being massacred, with millions displaced.

Russians can just go home when they lose their will.

Can they? I’m sure their families are under threat if they disappoint Pootey … prob’ly better for the families if they get killed.

 

[Harry Bosch]

… they will run out of troops eventually.

Agreed … eventually. IF that kill ratio is maintained for long enough. And meanwhile tens or hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian civilians are being massacred, with millions displaced.

Russians can just go home when they lose their will.

Can they? I’m sure their families are under threat if they disappoint Pootey … prob’ly better for the families if they get killed.

Well, it's not that I disagree. It's terrible for the civilians. But I don't see a solution that will satisfy Russia. I wish that Ukraine could just rename that one single street named after a Nazi. But I don't think that it or any other reasonable compromise will satisfy Putin. I think that all earlier talks with Russia were an absolute ruse. Ukraine has already said that they are open to Crimea remaining with Russia. And the separatist areas remaining with Russia if they so voted (which they would). And he's stated that he would give up aspirations to join Nato. But Russia wants more. I don't see any chance of a compromise.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiwiTtuWA6M
Summary of the videos:
Ukrainiann nazis used Tochka-U in Kramatorsk on their own people (not really, cause it's East Ukraine and people are pro-russian). Russia got rid of these outdated missiles in June 2021.

Next video shows Ukrainian government soldier wearing WW2 nazi SS insignia. Specifically SS division called Galizien. Video is from "The Sun"
And BBC I understand admitted that nazis are good and very useful for democracy.
So no reason to be ashamed of nazis.


Next
Analysis of Bucha incident. There is absolutely no doubt Ukrainians are behinnd it.
1. Russians declare leaving and then leave Bucha
2. Ukrainians enter Bucha
3. Ukrainians officials proclaim hunting down people who were cooperating with russians
4. Bucha Mayor (pro-nazi piece of shit) smiles and says everything is good in Bucha and Ukrainian army won.
5. 4 days (!!!) after russians left and ukrainians (Azov batallion, which is according to you own fucking government is a neo-nazi organization) entered, This story about bodies on streets appears in western press.
6. Bodies have hands tied with white bands (white arm-bands are being used by pro-russian civilians)
7. Russia has absolutely nothing to gain by murdering civilians.



You decide.

You think we didn't track the missile from launch to impact?!?! Are you forgetting the airborne radar aircraft over Poland?