How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[scombrid]

You obviously didn't check very carefully.

No, I checked carefully, Australia did send some weapons to ukrainian nazis.
Everybody is helping nazis.

What a joke. I have been watching Russian propaganda support right wing horseshit in the US since around 2010 along with stupid antiGMO disinformation aimed at fucking with US agribusiness because Russian ag is still a joke that never recovered from Stalin/Lysenko. Then there is the Russian support for LaPen, Orban, et al. Sick of these people.

Quoting myself to expand the thought with an example. Raptly was supporting James Fields.

 

[Patooka]

You really need to watch long youtube I posted. US is no stranger to helping nazi scam. All kind of scam for that matter. I don't understand why you think this time would be different.

I really don't. Your arguments in this thread have mutated from "Putin would never invade" to "This is only about removing Nazis" to "Everyone is lying to you like George W" to "The West started this war by forcing Russia to invade" to "Every except Russia loves Nazis, Nazis are the most popular political ideology in the world". So, no. I don't need to see a video from you. I'm full up on absurd bullshit.

 

[Elixir]

You really need to watch long youtube I posted. US is no stranger to helping nazi scam. All kind of scam for that matter. I don't understand why you think this time would be different.

I really don't. Your arguments in this thread have mutated from "Putin would never invade" to "This is only about removing Nazis" to "Everyone is lying to you like George W" to "The West started this war by forcing Russia to invade" to "Every except Russia loves Nazis, Nazis are the most popular political ideology in the world". So, no. I don't need to see a video from you. I'm full up on absurd bullshit.

Are you sure?
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[steve_bank]

In his so called documentary on American history Stone claimed the US made Stalin do what he did. It was all Truman's fault.

Stalin was just misunderstood.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Barbos insists that "the West" started this war. Delusional. Nothing supports that assertion. But you know, there is a simple proof that Ukraine chose to reject Russia all by herself. Just look at how resolute they have been when it comes to defending their country over the past two months. If Ukraine had been bribed or coerced in some way by the west to overthrow Russia's puppet president, would they be standing so firmly now?

Compare Ukraine to Afghanistan. The US set up a safe haven for freedom and democracy, provided military and police training and assistance to the democratic Afghan government, but all of that was wasted effort because the people didn't care enough about the humanity and freedom of their fellow countrymen to defend it themselves. Democracy died in Afghanistan in hours, not months. The Afghans didn't care. They didn't want it.

But Ukraine cares about her freedom and independence, staunchly, impressively, woefully. The unwanted invader is clearly, obviously, undoubtedly, Russia, not "the West."

Barbos has also claimed that the US forced Russia to invade Afghanistan!

 

[Patooka]

Barbos has also claimed that the US forced Russia to invade Afghanistan!

He probably believes in the Zbigniew Brzezinski myth.

 

[steve_bank]

The same with Iraq. They turned on each other forming militias and then turned on the USA. No good deed goes unpunished.

Or the Palestinins,they will never be bale to manage themselves through democratic processes.

 

[Gospel]

You really need to watch long youtube I posted. US is no stranger to helping nazi scam. All kind of scam for that matter. I don't understand why you think this time would be different.

Meanwhile, Russia hides Hitler's remains and creates food for conspiracy theorists for years to come.

 

[Gospel]

Or the Palestinins,they will never be bale to manage themselves through democratic processes.

The US just needs to control its guard dog and things will get better.

 

[Jayjay]

Russia cuts off gas deliveries to Poland and Bulgaria:

Russian demand for ruble gas payments causes first shutdowns in Poland, Bulgaria | DW | 26.04.2022

Polish natural gas company PGNiG said Gazprom would cut supplies starting Wednesday. Bulgaria's energy minister said Gazprom sent Bulgargaz a similar notice.

www.dw.com

The pretext is the demand to pay for gas in rubles. Of course, Germany doesn't pay its gas in rubles either, but it's too big for Russia to start messing with - bullies always go after the weakest links. Poland is already not that reliant on Russian gas and was going to go off it by end of the year anyway. Bulgaria is small enough to be kicked around, and due to its high levels of corruption it could be influenced by Russia in the future much like Hungary is now.

 

[steve_bank]

Or the Palestinins,they will never be bale to manage themselves through democratic processes.

The US just needs to control its guard dog and things will get better.

At the risk of derailing to Israel.

Even without Israel the Palestinians would not be able to govern themselves.

Jordan at one point annexed the West Bank leading to a civil war over control of Jordan. That is where Yasser Arafat made his entrance.

The Palestinians had a civil war between Hamas and Fatah having nothing to do with Israel or the USA.

The Lebanese Civil War.

The American revolutionary idea in the day of people ruling themselves through democratic processes requires a cultural foundation. Colonial culture already had institutions and the tradition to a democratic republic was not a big step.

Afhghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Ethiopia and other places are frctured by tribal clan identities and religion.

Ukraine has a common religion and a strong national and historical identity. That is why Russia ran into a brick wall.

That is why modern Isreal arose from nothing fending off several attempts by Arab armies to destroy it. A strong cultural and historical ethnic identity.

It is why the USA used to have strong unity. We are descending into ethnic and political factions unable to work together for the common good.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Here's a wild radical thought that seems to have received too little attention.

Maybe neither side are the "good guys."

 

[Patooka]

Here's a wild radical thought that seems to have received too little attention.

Maybe neither side are the "good guys."

"Both sides", huh? Trumpers and libertarians have more in common than I thought.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

That argument is simply staggering, then clinging to a lamppost, then falling into a gutter.

 

[Gospel]

Or the Palestinins,they will never be bale to manage themselves through democratic processes.

The US just needs to control its guard dog and things will get better.

At the risk of derailing to Israel.

Even without Israel the Palestinians would not be able to govern themselves.

Jordan at one point annexed the West Bank leading to a civil war over control of Jordan. That is where Yasser Arafat made his entrance.

The Palestinians had a civil war between Hamas and Fatah having nothing to do with Israel or the USA.

The Lebanese Civil War.

The American revolutionary idea in the day of people ruling themselves through democratic processes requires a cultural foundation. Colonial culture already had institutions and the tradition to a democratic republic was not a big step.

Afhghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Ethiopia and other places are frctured by tribal clan identities and religion.

Ukraine has a common religion and a strong national and historical identity. That is why Russia ran into a brick wall.

That is why modern Isreal arose from nothing fending off several attempts by Arab armies to destroy it. A strong cultural and historical ethnic identity.

It is why the USA used to have strong unity. We are descending into ethnic and political factions unable to work together for the common good.

Guilty of derail myself. So how was it they were able to live alongside the people of Israel until the west opened their trench coat and wiggled there little pig colored penises around fouling up things?

 

[SLD]

Here's a wild radical thought that seems to have received too little attention.

Maybe neither side are the "good guys."

It’s a radical idea alright. A shitty one too.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Here's a wild radical thought that seems to have received too little attention.

Maybe neither side are the "good guys."

It’s a radical idea alright. A shitty one too.

It is US policy that any time any group out there gets cross with any other group out there, we have to figure out which one are the "good guys" and support them.

A more mature perspective is that sometimes, in some conflicts, there are no "good guys".

 

[Patooka]

Here's a wild radical thought that seems to have received too little attention.

Maybe neither side are the "good guys."

It’s a radical idea alright. A shitty one too.

It is US policy that any time any group out there gets cross with any other group out there, we have to figure out which one are the "good guys" and support them.

A more mature perspective is that sometimes, in some conflicts, there are no "good guys".

How about you tell us what you think the appropriate response the US should have towards this state of affairs.

 

[barbos]

A more mature perspective is that sometimes, in some conflicts, there are no "good guys".

Sometimes maybe, but in this particular case one of the two sides is US.

 

[barbos]

Police are not bound by the Geneva Conventions, nor the CWC. These bind military forces, such as those deployed by Russia in Ukraine.

Well, technically it's a police operation, not a war.

What do you suggest? and no, "Leaving Ukraine" is not an option

You know, Barbos, I don’t expect you to suddenly admit that you’re full of shit, and I doubt anyone else will change their mind either. So who gives a damn? But here’s some things you cannot deny:

1. You’re getting your butts kicked by Ukraine. You’ve lost upwards of 450 tanks and 2,000 other armored vehicles. It will take years to replace those.
2. You’ve lost approximately 30,000 to 40,000 personnel, either killed, wounded or missing. You will never replace those.
3. You got your asses handed you around Kiev, and we’re forced into a humiliating retreat.
4. You’ve yet to take a single major city, even Mariupol has continued to hold out despite being surrounded for over a month.
5. You have failed to achieve air superiority, and have lost around 80 aircraft, along with numerous well trained crewmen.
6. You just lost the flag ship of your Black Sea fleet, including its commanding officer.
7. Your military failures have made your nation appear to be nothing but a paper bear. The incompetence displayed, including tanks being towed away by tractors, open communication on cell phones, instances of fragging senior officers, and even leaving troops without food or supplies has all exposed your nation as utterly weak.
8. Your forces are simply bogged down everywhere they go. This war is now a quagmire from which it’s unlikely to end until you’re forces are bled dry. It’s ten times worse than your invasion of Afghanistan. You cannot conquer Ukraine. They will not be surrendering. There will be no peace talks.
9. Your economy is in the toilet. Inflation is close to 20%, and you can trade little more than oil on international markets. Your stock market is about half of what it was in November. You’ve defaulted on your debt for the first time since 1918. You might continue to make some money on oil and gas, but even a lot of those shipments are now in jeopardy, as Germany says it will wean itself from Russian oil by the end of the year. It’s quite possible that in a few months time you will not be selling oil at all. That may never recover as they will no longer trust you.
10. Finland will likely join NATO, soon too. Sweden might also. This will deliver a serious blow to your overall security situation.
11. You’ve united NATO as never before, and even Germany is seriously increasing its military budget.
12. The rest of the world is utterly shocked and outraged over your actions. Your military’s actions against innocent civilians has brought shame on your nation as Germany’s did 80 years ago. You will not be repairing your reputation abroad anytime soon.
13. You’re two supposed allies are abandoning you too. Lukashenko no longer supports this war, and you can’t rely on Belorussians who are as likely to revolt against your incursion, and the Chinese aren’t stupid enough to go against the sanctions and hurt their own economy.

So tell me what the fuck good this war has done for Russia? How is Russia’s security situation improved by this stupid war? How has it benefited the ordinary Russian?

Complete and utter propaganda garbage.
Mighty US/NATO is currently losing their proxy war with Russia they started.

Who invaded what?

US/NATO invaded Ukraine.