How should west respond to potential (likely) Russian invasion of Ukraine?

[Jayjay]

Biden gets cold feet:

Biden says US won’t send Ukraine rocket systems that can reach Russia

President Biden on Monday said the United States will not send rocket systems to Ukraine that could potentially reach into Russia, after reports that the administration was preparing to send long-range systems to the besieged European ally.

www.foxnews.com

Any weapon system can be used to "strike Russia", if they're close enough to the border. I think the US just has to trust that Ukraine is too dependent on foreign aid during and after the war that they would refrain from using certain weapons to strike beyond Russian borders.

 

[Politesse]

Russia considers the present war to be conducted entirely within the borders of Russia.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Biden gets cold feet:

Biden says US won’t send Ukraine rocket systems that can reach Russia

President Biden on Monday said the United States will not send rocket systems to Ukraine that could potentially reach into Russia, after reports that the administration was preparing to send long-range systems to the besieged European ally.

www.foxnews.com

Any weapon system can be used to "strike Russia", if they're close enough to the border. I think the US just has to trust that Ukraine is too dependent on foreign aid during and after the war that they would refrain from using certain weapons to strike beyond Russian borders.

I think fundamentally what he's saying is that Ukraine should only use the systems on tactical targets, not strategic targets. No dropping a rocket on a refinery far from the battle.

 

[steve_bank]

It is about Ukraine using a long range surface to surface missile to attack Russia peoper.

If nothing else it could galvanize Russian people against Ukraine and NATO-USA.

NATO is walking a fine line.

 

[Jayjay]

It is about Ukraine using a long range surface to surface missile to attack Russia peoper.

If nothing else it could galvanize Russian people against Ukraine and NATO-USA.

NATO is walking a fine line.

Indeed. But we should not refrain from giving Ukraine useful weapons just because of the off chance that they could be used to hit targets inside Russia, but rather, just ask Ukraine not to do so if they want to keep the aid coming. There are plenty of useful targets for MLRS in the occupied Ukraine as well.

Crimea is something might also have to be explicitly put off the table.

 

[Elixir]

If nothing else it could galvanize Russian people against Ukraine and NATO-USA

That’s why we should be delighting that as many unlucky “accidents” as possible happen to Russia proper, and Putler in particular. Not that we would ever DO anything of course. But shit happens y’know, wink wink.

IMHO ceding Crimea would be a mistake, rewarding Putler for his atrocities.

 

[steve_bank]

If nothing else it could galvanize Russian people against Ukraine and NATO-USA

That’s why we should be delighting that as many unlucky “accidents” as possible happen to Russia proper, and Putler in particular. Not that we would ever DO anything of course. But shit happens y’know, wink wink.

IMHO ceding Crimea would be a mistake, rewarding Putler for his atrocities.

I'd have to check. I think Ukraine hdads already ceded Crimea before the war.

 

[Tigers!]

More boycotts against Russia

Pfft.
We need to see more “unfortunate accidents” happening within Russia.
Maybe a gas explosion in the Kremlin, an electrical fire in Putler’s palace, a few deathly ill oligarchs … you know - the kind of bad luck that befalls Putler’s enemies. I just think he’s due for a run of REALLY bad luck.
Official channels are impotent.

I wonder if the Mossad has its hands totally full.

 

[TV and credit cards]

It is about Ukraine using a long range surface to surface missile to attack Russia peoper.

If nothing else it could galvanize Russian people against Ukraine and NATO-USA.

NATO is walking a fine line.

Depending on what is hit, it could galvanize the Russian people. But what do we do, fight a war by half measures, doing just enough to ensure Ukraine takes its country back, eventually and in shambles? Seems like a recipe for prolonged suffering and death.

Xi Jinping was right when he said democracies cannot react fast enough in the 21st century to be a sustaining form of government. Autocracies will win when then can do what they want when they want in the moment. I'm not saying we conduct ourselves in the same manner as a autocrat would but we do need to step it up in a decisive manner.

There is still this "don't make Putin mad" attitude in the West. Fuck him. Finland and Sweden said fuck you and how did Putin respond? With next to nothing.

 

[steve_bank]

Japan made a fatal mistake in underestimating the will of the American people who was thought to be weak and decadent.

There are signs of unrest in China recently and there is a free specch-free press movement.

With the continued decline of Russia that leaves China somewhat isolated. Japan is moving away from it defensive military only position in part due to Chinese agressiveness. China had kaid claim to an island off of Japan.

IMO China's mistake is thinking it can get along and prosper without the west. As with NATO and Russia, China's actions are fostering unity in the Pacific. It would be rough, but in the end the west can adapt and make do without China which after all built itself up with western technology, manufacturing expertise, and investment.

In the 19th century a Frenchmen De Tocqueville toured America and wrote commentaries. As he put a syem riun demicrtically with rule by the peopke is inefficient, but in the long run is self correcting.

Our strength is that in the long run we can and do adapt, albeit slowly at times. We are now 'going green'.

In contrast Russian and China have systems that oppose change by force.

Whether the experiment in Americqn democracy fails is an open question. It depends on wheter or not policians in the end can be patriotic and put country before self. The antithesis of Trump and his lapdogs.

I do not think the economic system as is will be sustainable.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Your post makes zero sense. You don't like the Ukrainian Oligarchs. Fine. You don't like those oligarch meanies who now own rubble and ruin. Fine. Do you give a fucking shit about their families? How about all the innocent civilians? Their children? I donated money to a group that rescued hundreds of children dying of cancer that was finally evacuated. Their story was heart breaking. Do you give a shit about them? Do you give a shit about all the environmental damage that Russia is causing? Do you give a shit about the millions of people world wide who will suffer because Russia won't let Ukraine export their grain? How about the world wide inflation that is affecting the world? Have you been to the store lately?

Right there in your own post you gave the answer to your own question and you don't even know it. You said YOU donated money to a group. Find. I have absolutely no problem with that, and even commend it. But we're not talking about what YOU are doing, we are talking about what you and yours all want the government to do.

When it comes to that, your very emotional argument means nothing. "Don't you care about X? Don't you care about Y" Don't you care about deciding things on merits other than emotion?

It is because everything has been decided on emotion for the last 20 years that we are experiencing food shortages right now. Your "feelings" aren't going to feed the hungry, cold rational action will. And when you say "oh but I meant well", I won't give a damn about that.

Actually you won't say "oh but I meant well" because that would mean admitting that letting your feelings trump reality is wrong, and that feels bad so you won't do that.

You bet I get emotional about it.

Yes, you have emotion. Too bad that's all you have.

 

[barbos]

Wow, looks like even heavily censored and heavily lying western press can't pretend anymore that ukrainian nazis are winning.
Evacuation my ass.

 

[barbos]

Nazi regime in Kiev is running out of Tochka-U and resorted to using car bombs to punish "collaborators" (civilian population) in Melitopol.

 

[Patooka]

Meh, wake when glorious honest Russian media warns everyone of evil Nazi Ukrainians breaking out the fucking gundam suits or something. Barbos, in case you were wondering, literally everyone has noticed how far you've walked but your initial assertions my dude.

 

[barbos]

Meh, wake when glorious honest Russian media warns everyone of evil Nazi Ukrainians breaking out the fucking gundam suits or something. Barbos, in case you were wondering, literally everyone has noticed how far you've walked but your initial assertions my dude.

Sure, reminded me your asshole general vs Matt Lee. Where your retarded general literally said "Russia is on NATO doorsteps" to which Lee "Aren't NATO the one walking?"
Your initial assertion was "Nazis in Ukraine? preposterous!!!"
Now you say there are very few of them. Not according to latest data.

 

[Patooka]

 

[zorq]

Hey Barbos, do you remember why NAZIs are considered to be scum? It's because they wanted to kill and murder their neighbors to take their land and destroy their culture. Putinists are the new NAZIs. In 60 years people will not ridicule violent autocratic enthusiasts as being worse than Hitler, they will be compared to Putin because that will be the new ultimate slur.

Time will tell if Russia can shed the shame of Putin as well as Germany did with Hitler, but I doubt it. Russia is in for a dark century.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Your post makes zero sense. You don't like the Ukrainian Oligarchs. Fine. You don't like those oligarch meanies who now own rubble and ruin. Fine. Do you give a fucking shit about their families? How about all the innocent civilians? Their children? I donated money to a group that rescued hundreds of children dying of cancer that was finally evacuated. Their story was heart breaking. Do you give a shit about them? Do you give a shit about all the environmental damage that Russia is causing? Do you give a shit about the millions of people world wide who will suffer because Russia won't let Ukraine export their grain? How about the world wide inflation that is affecting the world? Have you been to the store lately?

Right there in your own post you gave the answer to your own question and you don't even know it. You said YOU donated money to a group. Find. I have absolutely no problem with that, and even commend it. But we're not talking about what YOU are doing, we are talking about what you and yours all want the government to do.

When it comes to that, your very emotional argument means nothing. "Don't you care about X? Don't you care about Y" Don't you care about deciding things on merits other than emotion?

It is because everything has been decided on emotion for the last 20 years that we are experiencing food shortages right now. Your "feelings" aren't going to feed the hungry, cold rational action will. And when you say "oh but I meant well", I won't give a damn about that.

Actually you won't say "oh but I meant well" because that would mean admitting that letting your feelings trump reality is wrong, and that feels bad so you won't do that.

You bet I get emotional about it.

Yes, you have emotion. Too bad that's all you have.

That's pretty deep Jason! I notice that you tend to post in this thread just after the Russians have a few victories. This must be a happy time for you.

 

[Harry Bosch]

More boycotts against Russia

Pfft.
We need to see more “unfortunate accidents” happening within Russia.
Maybe a gas explosion in the Kremlin, an electrical fire in Putler’s palace, a few deathly ill oligarchs … you know - the kind of bad luck that befalls Putler’s enemies. I just think he’s due for a run of REALLY bad luck.
Official channels are impotent.

I wonder if the Mossad has its hands totally full.

Well, I know that you are joking here. But we really do need the whole world coming together to try to stop this invasion. The Russians want war.

 

[Harry Bosch]

Biden gets cold feet:

Biden says US won’t send Ukraine rocket systems that can reach Russia

President Biden on Monday said the United States will not send rocket systems to Ukraine that could potentially reach into Russia, after reports that the administration was preparing to send long-range systems to the besieged European ally.

www.foxnews.com

Any weapon system can be used to "strike Russia", if they're close enough to the border. I think the US just has to trust that Ukraine is too dependent on foreign aid during and after the war that they would refrain from using certain weapons to strike beyond Russian borders.

Well, they've already hit Russian targets inside of Russia. As of right now, I understand Biden's position. And I agree. We don't want WW3. But if Russia starts invading westward again, we might need to rethink this.