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Policies that will reduce abortions - a collaborative look

8. Free/reduced food for infants and children




If the goal is to reduce abortions, all of these will help. And experiments have been done that show they are extremely effective. Their use means that illegal abortions are also reduced.
I presume you meant cost/price in pt. 8 rather than volume or amount?
 
8. Free/reduced food for infants and children




If the goal is to reduce abortions, all of these will help. And experiments have been done that show they are extremely effective. Their use means that illegal abortions are also reduced.
I presume you meant cost/price in pt. 8 rather than volume or amount?
End the tyranny of normal sized foods!!!

Stupid jokes aside, however, yes.

Its just dumb that any child has their maximum potential tanked by malnutrition when we could just have a society that much more capable simply because people want to punish women for having kids "they can't afford."

Whose fault is it that children of single mothers can't afford it? I wonder who it is that someone else isn't pulling weight on that financial strain...

To that end another thing that could reduce abortion is this "sperm insurance" I keep bringing up.

As has been shown time and again for tens of thousands of years, dudes will ding-dong-dash on a pregnancy, and there's no effective way to really keep that from happening. The only path I honestly see forward to stop that, if it is ever to be stopped, is to treat the whole sperm producing population as a shared risk pool and make them pay on it.

Every person who creates sperm needs to take responsibilities for the consequences of those sperms they wish to have and put out into the world.

Because not every person who creates sperm is needed to create sperm.

We could decimate the sperm producing population, and while we would lose much strength and ability to do work, we wouldn't lose a single iota of our ability to repopulate with the very best genetics (stochastically and statistically represented in the remainder assuming an even decimation. Not talking eugenics here but childbearer selection)!

Vasectomy is a fair bit more reversible than decimation, regardless, especially with modern approaches assuming such ever get approved for use!

That policy will very effectively reduce abortions, either because those who were sewing wild oats are now sewing stones by their own volition so as to continue avoiding responsibility, or because the wild oats that were sewn were already paid forward.
 
Is there a need to re-word things to get the anti abortion crowd on board? Are there ways to get the journey on these started?
Yeah, the the whole contraceptive thing has to go as well as the sex education. Most of the anti-abortion won't support either of those things. As this has nothing to do with saving the life of a fetus.

All of the above is a great idea for a healthy society though.
 
But if the need/desire for abortion was reduced to near zero, what red meat issues would conservatives rally around?
Guns, white replacement theory, trans access to sports and bathrooms, white Christian nationalism.....They have all sorts of red meat issues to use to stir up the ignorant base.

But, back to the OP. Imo, the best way to prevent abortion is to put the money that was removed from public health/family planning clinics that was removed since the Reagan administration back to where it needs to be.

I worked in both a maternity clinic for poor women, and I did a little work in a family planning environment. My most successful accomplishment from the brief time I worked in the maternity clinic was having almost 100% of my patients return for birth control. Most of these young women had enough family support to help them raise their children, but by being patient and nonjudgmental I was able to educate and convince them that using effective birth control gave them a lot of control over their lives. At that time, ( early 80s ) anyone who was high risk for pregnancy or who had at least 4 pregnancies was eligible for state paid tubal ligation. Quite a few of my patients chose that option. Plus you had to be at least 21. I still recall a 19 year old who had 5 children crying in my office because she couldn't get the tubal. Some of my patients had very little education as well as being controlled by a male partner, which almost made pregnancy inevitable.

Nobody gets pregnant to game the system. That's an old lie from the Reagan era, "welfare queen" nonsense. It is true that having children is a proud accomplishment for many low income women. I've worked with many of them. Most were very good mothers. Some had support from the fathers of their children. We could add more benefits to help them out, but subsidized housing, SNAP, the EIC, WIC and Medicaid or CHIP does help a lot of these women provide their children with with their basic needs. Free community college classes to allow them to be trained to do jobs that pay more, would also help their children. Free or very low cost childcare, especially preschool for those age 3 to 5 would also help these families.


Some only had one or two children, a few had 3 or 4 children, and there were two who had as many as 8 or more children. Oe of them had a very supportive family who gave her a lot of help. I didn't know them well enough to understand why they desired so many children, or if they were just careless with BC. Contrary to what some think, not many women choose abortions. The year I worked in a maternity clinic, only one girl chose an abortion.

I would support expanding these programs along with making it easier to have a tubal ligation or vasectomy. Most doctors don't like to perform those procedures on anyone who is very young unless they've already had at least two children. My husband had a vasectomy, when we decided not to have children together. He was 32 and I was 35, and I didn't want to get pregnant after that age, due to the increased risks. I had a 9 year old son when we met, and he treated him as if he was his own child. It was birth control that kept me from ever having an unwanted pregnancy prior to the vasectomy. Plus, my husband wore a condom every time we had sex prior to his vasectomy. Men are a part of the problem, as a good percentage of them refuse to use condoms. Most forms of birth control are quite effective if they are used correctly. Foam and condoms used together are about as effective as OCPs, so there are options. IUDs are usually very effective as well. But, now we need to be concerned about the crazies on the right who want to ban some methods of BC.
 
But if the need/desire for abortion was reduced to near zero, what red meat issues would conservatives rally around?
Sadly, I think you've put your finger on it.

Regardless of anyone's particular opinions on the subject, it's rife with emotional fervor. Whether it's "OMG, they're enslaving women!" or "OMG, they're killing innocent children for lust!" It works for politicians.

Solving the problem would cut off all that support. The money. The power. Across the political spectrum, our elected representatives would have to respond to bigger problems, with nuance. That doesn't generate donations and votes as cheaply and effectively.

I've mentioned before that I'm not fond of RvW as it stands. But far worse is the direction we are headed. A patchwork of state laws, where a person's rights depend on where they are at the moment. And any given state will have laws passed by the most extreme politicians, using abortion as a political football.

Texas's SB8 might be the worst legislation of the 21st century. But it doesn't look like it's going away.
Tom
 
Is there a need to re-word things to get the anti abortion crowd on board? Are there ways to get the journey on these started?
No, because for the vast majority unwanted pregnancies are a desired outcome. The baby is punishment for unapproved sex.
 
Once I'm POTUS,

The first thing I'll do is [removed]

Second will be Universal Health Care. I'll call it national security and make the fundage come from the military.

Next will be massively funding Planned Parenthood, or similar organizations.

PP prevents abortions. Huge numbers of abortions don't happen because of them.

They prevent abortions the sensible, freedom loving, way. PP provides solid advice. Sophisticated contraceptives. They do this in a safe environment. With little regard for ability to pay.

Planned Parenthood has prevented more abortions in the last 40 years than all the hell fire and damnation preaching EVER! That's the bottom line.

PP's problem is image. It's easy to count pregnancies and tabulate results. You can't tabulate pregnancies that didn't happen.

An at risk person didn't get pregnant, due to PP. How can anyone count that? There's no way to do it.
Tom
 
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My apologies for adding to that derail. There are enough threads on the topic of abortion morality already.

Let’s turn this one back to legislation that can reduce the need or desire for abortions. Legislation that both pro-choice and anti-abortion advocates should be able to agree will reduce the frequency of those choosing abortion.

Those who are against abortion have said, so far, ‘I agree with your list,’ but can you add any substance? Any comments or ways of wording the legislation that you would support?

The pro-choice group is clearly, energetically and enthusiastically on board with the legislation. Lots of words and comments and support for how it can help.

Does the anti-abortion side have any energy to contribute?

How can we word this to get some action from those currently focused on outlawing abortion (lengthy and uncertain effort) and get them working to obviate abortion (fast effort with complete support from pro-choice side)?
 
How can we word this to get some action from those currently focused on outlawing abortion (lengthy and uncertain effort) and get them working to obviate abortion (fast effort with complete support from pro-choice side)?

Those focusing on outlawing abortion are uninterested in obviating abortion. It’s their “cause celebré” so don’t expect any help getting rid of it.

They’re only interested in controlling other people’s sex lives.
 
Those focusing on outlawing abortion are uninterested in obviating abortion. It’s their “cause celebré” so don’t expect any help getting rid of it.
It would be great to be proven wrong.

Maybe those focused on outlawing abortion could help by providing names of legislators or political leaders who will write some of this legislation, or at least have a record of publicly supporting it and voting “yes” when it is written by others.

Any legislation that they support that helps make abortion not a better choice for a poor, single person with an unplanned pregnancy. Anything that supports their medical care, food insecurity from the new child or childcare struggles.


Are there any?
Can we find them and support them?
 
Once I'm POTUS,

The first thing I'll do is [removed]

Second will be Universal Health Care. I'll call it national security and make the fundage come from the military.

Next will be massively funding Planned Parenthood, or similar organizations.

PP prevents abortions. Huge numbers of abortions don't happen because of them.

They prevent abortions the sensible, freedom loving, way. PP provides solid advice. Sophisticated contraceptives. They do this in a safe environment. With little regard for ability to pay.

Planned Parenthood has prevented more abortions in the last 40 years than all the hell fire and damnation preaching EVER! That's the bottom line.

PP's problem is image. It's easy to count pregnancies and tabulate results. You can't tabulate pregnancies that didn't happen.

An at risk person didn't get pregnant, due to PP. How can anyone count that? There's no way to do it.
Tom

Yeah, you politicians always promise the moon, but then get elected and run off with the money. :)
 
Derail on who is responsible for pregnancies is split into a separate thread


This thread is about policies and legislation that will reduce the need for abortions that can be agreed on by all sides.
 
This is a really good program. I wish we could make it mandatory everywhere. It's not just about sex and sexuality, but relationships and how to have honest discussion.



https://www.uua.org/re/owl

Honest, accurate information about sexuality changes lives. It dismantles stereotypes and assumptions, builds self-acceptance and self-esteem, fosters healthy relationships, improves decision making, and has the potential to save lives. For these reasons and more, we are proud to offer Our Whole Lives (OWL), a comprehensive, lifespan sexuality education curricula for use in both secular settings and faith communities.

Interactive workshops and activities engage participants, while step-by-step instructions for program planners and facilitators help ensure success. Seven curricula speak to participants' needs, by age group:

grades K-1
grades 4-6
grades 7-9
grades 10-12
young adults
adults
older adults

Our Whole Lives helps participants make informed and responsible decisions about their relationships, sexual health and behavior. With a holistic approach (PDF), Our Whole Lives provides accurate, developmentally appropriate information about a range of topics, including relationships, gender identity and expression, sexual orientation, sexual health, and cultural influences on sexuality.
 
It's not just about sex and sexuality, but relationships and how to have honest discussion.

I believe that the relationship and emotional piece is so critical. The difference between “sex” education and “sexuality” education.

But that is so missing from most programs.

I expect there is huge conflict in some religious circles about this because they feel that silence on the matter until marriage is the only apprpriate answer. So I don’t know how to get them interested in it.
 
Those focusing on outlawing abortion are uninterested in obviating abortion. It’s their “cause celebré” so don’t expect any help getting rid of it.
It would be great to be proven wrong.

Maybe those focused on outlawing abortion could help by providing names of legislators or political leaders who will write some of this legislation, or at least have a record of publicly supporting it and voting “yes” when it is written by others.

Any legislation that they support that helps make abortion not a better choice for a poor, single person with an unplanned pregnancy. Anything that supports their medical care, food insecurity from the new child or childcare struggles.


Are there any?
Can we find them and support them?
And yet if a pollie could be found who would/could address this much needed legislation they would immediately be attacked by the pro-choice lobby in one form or another. They would be called anti-women, anti-women's health, misogynistic etc.

Just speaking of of the USA do you not have centres available for women to call that might be able to help them with their pregnancy. Do such centres get federal money? If not that would be a start in attempted to supports their medical care, food insecurity from the new child or childcare struggles.
 
Just speaking of of the USA do you not have centres available for women to call that might be able to help them with their pregnancy.
Yes. Planned Parenthood does that. The org that Republicans want to do away with.
The place where RW fanatics try to murder doctors.
 
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