You have already expressed your concern about indoctrination (thank goodness your exposure to that feminist professor was minimal, huh?) and that leftism in academia is a problem which must be dealt with. Do you support the Florida law which is the topic of this thread?
No, I didn't. I said the political leanings of the professor that taught 'Text and Gender' was extremely obvious. I did not 'express concern' that she was 'indoctrinating me'.
Whether leftism is a problem in academia is a question that deserves investigation. However, since you refuse to acknowledge that you made false claims about me, I did not say it was definitely a problem, nor that it, if was a problem, it was a problem because it was 'indoctrinating students'. It could be a problem in any number of ways, including but not limited 'indoctrination'.
Let's stop right there for a minute.
No, the law is not designed to do that. It says people should feel free to say unorthodox things, and I think they should feel free to do so, in an institution paid for by the government.
Good god, are we back to stage 1: denying the obvious?
I don't know about the 'others'. I can see a very good reason to survey academics, administrative staff, and students.
Of course there would be a reason for it to be "on the books". Why do you think companies survey their customers and staff year after year? A problem (or no problem) at time t does not mean a problem (or no problem) at time t + 1.
I'll tell you what's "bullshit". It's putting words into my mouth, accusing me of saying things I did not say, and then blithely refusing to acknowledge I did not say them.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your position is "OMG we need to do something about leftism in academia! Now!"
I corrected Toni, then laughing dog, and then you. As for "doing something" about leftism in academia, it may or may not be warranted, but it beggars belief that we can't even agree to the zeroth premise that 'the left heavily outweighs the right in US academia'.
I am saying I never said things I didn't say, which is a fair claim for me to make.
What I think is that the Florida government suspects that there is a leftist bias at Florida universities, and that this bias may contribute to a chilling climate of staff and students who want to utter unorthodox thoughts and ideas. To know if this is the case, the institutions need to be surveyed.
Because leftists endorse it more than rightists. I don't know what else to tell you. If we lived in a world where rightists endorsed it more than leftists, it'd be the opposite. But we don't live in that world.
No, the 5th grade teacher should say 'I can call you your preferred name as a nickname, but you are not a girl. A girl is a juvenile human female.'
No. A doctor should be prepared to tell the young man that although he can alter his outward appearance somewhat to more closely resemble that more typical of the opposite sex, that he cannot ever actually change sex, as no mammal can change sex. These are medical facts.
Cool: multiple lines of evidence point to it being leftist: How about some links?
I think Florida should be required to hand out a survey investigating whether alt-right anti-intellectual meddling is a problem in the Government of Florida. All people in Florida should answer the survey. It is worth investigating.
Well, so far, unless I missed it (and if I have, I really do apologize) you have not linked to any studies that that demonstrate that even some professors indoctrinate students in any political philosophy, or that students suffer academically if they do not agree with the professor's political philosophy. And now you seem to imply that administration is indoctrinating students. Students themselves do sometimes put pressure on other students to do all sorts of things, mostly drinking alcohol, smoking pot, having sex and yes, voting, sometimes for or against a particular idea. I was first in college in the early 70's, a little past the hippie days and while I saw people marching around with signs espousing gay rights and even one suggesting that the world was going to end at noon on Thursday, I wasn't 'indoctrinated.' I will say that leaving my small, very, very homogeneous home town for a college campus which had students and professors from all over the world, of many different backgrounds was refreshing and eye opening and very exciting. Yes: I liked being exposed to people with different points of view and opinions.
Thank you for the needless confirmation of my point that professors are asked to self-identify as "liberal", "moderate" or "conservative".
Are Colleges and Universities Too Liberal? What the Research Says About the Political Composition of Campuses and Campus Climate
“Is Academe Awash in Liberal Bias?” This is one of many recent headlines trying to grapple with a question that we’ve been debating for decades: are colleges and universities dominated by liberals? Over the past few years, charges that colleges and universities are “about Radical Left...www.aei.org
The HERI approach that asks how faculty members self-identify across the political spectrum gives us a better sense of the ideological leanings among the professoriate. It powerfully shows that the number of faculty on the right is far outweighed by those who identify as moderate or on the left. In 1989-1990, when HERI first fielded this survey, 42% of faculty identified as being on the left, 40% were moderate, and another 18% were on the right. This is not a normal curve – it is a clear lean to the left.
Almost three decades later in 2016-2017, HERI found that 60% of the faculty identified as either far left or liberal compared to just 12% being conservative or far right. In 1989, the liberal: conservative ratio of faculty was 2.3. So in less than 30 years the ratio of liberal identifying faculty to conservative faculty had more than doubled to 5.
No, you brought it up with your personal example about some class. Please take responsibility for the content of your posts and stop blaming others.
Except you did provide such a personal example. And, certainly the legislature of Florida and Florida's governor think so, because it is driving this ridiculous legislation.
Is it possible for you to have a discussion without needlessly interjecting your transphobia?
Truth is truth regardless of one's ideology.
I am denying your conflation of"Liberal" and "Moderate" with "the Left" and "Leftist". While I realize that mistaken conflation is popular with Nazis, fascists, extreme rightwing reactionaries, and their dupes make that connection, I am at a loss as to why you are making the same error
Don't forget both sides of the Holocaust or the mass immigration of Africans a long time ago.
You haven't actually pointed out any reason it's a dumb analogy; name-calling is so much less effort, and probably more satisfying to you anyway. But as to how I came up with it, it was by way of JH's use of the loaded term "meddling". That word brought to mind an earlier exchange I'd had -- an exchange with you -- in which you expressed the view that the taxpayers ought to be compelled to support the self-selecting and self-perpetuating class of professional soothsayers who had inducted you into their order, but that the taxpayers ought to have no influence over the content of the sooth the sayers were saying. The resemblance to the medieval Catholic Church's pushback against the wider lay society that supported it, to any encroachment on its traditional authority and privileges, was painfully on display.
"Admission"?!? You say that as though that were an issue in dispute and the circumstance that it's meddling weighs against my contention in this thread. Of course it's meddling; who the heck said it wasn't? My contention in this thread is that the Ziprhead/Salon contention that this survey bill will require people to register their views with the state is an out-to-lunch conspiracy theory.
Ah, it's nice to see you going back to playing "I'm rubber; you're glue." You're so good at it it's inspiring to watch... ... and it's a step back up from your more recent penchant for ad hominems.
I've already posted a link.
It is not confirmation of any such thing. The survey includes far left, liberal, middle of the road, conservative and far right as categories.Thank you for the needless confirmation of my point that professors are asked to self-identify as "liberal", "moderate" or "conservative".Are Colleges and Universities Too Liberal? What the Research Says About the Political Composition of Campuses and Campus Climate
“Is Academe Awash in Liberal Bias?” This is one of many recent headlines trying to grapple with a question that we’ve been debating for decades: are colleges and universities dominated by liberals? Over the past few years, charges that colleges and universities are “about Radical Left...
The HERI approach that asks how faculty members self-identify across the political spectrum gives us a better sense of the ideological leanings among the professoriate. It powerfully shows that the number of faculty on the right is far outweighed by those who identify as moderate or on the left. In 1989-1990, when HERI first fielded this survey, 42% of faculty identified as being on the left, 40% were moderate, and another 18% were on the right. This is not a normal curve – it is a clear lean to the left.
Almost three decades later in 2016-2017, HERI found that 60% of the faculty identified as either far left or liberal compared to just 12% being conservative or far right. In 1989, the liberal: conservative ratio of faculty was 2.3. So in less than 30 years the ratio of liberal identifying faculty to conservative faculty had more than doubled to 5.
No, I said the political leanings of some of my professors was obvious and used an example. I did not claim she was indoctrinating me. Stop it. Stop.
Reporting an incident about how the left outweighs the right in US academia (and subsequently has significant power) is not 'transphobia'. Stop it. Stop.
I did not conflate 'moderate' with leftist. But in the survey I linked, 'liberal' was clearly synonymous with left of centre, and 'conservative' with right of centre.
You're not at a loss, laughing dog. In fact, you are well aware of what is going on, like when you poison the well with statements like the above.
No, I did not link to any studies that address words you put into my mouth. I made a claim that the left heavily outweighs the right in US academia, and I backed up that claim with evidence.
You made false claims about me. I did not say you were lying, which is another false claim you've made about me.
